Pond Boss Forums MANAGING AN EXISTING POND Evaluating and adjusting fish populations Just How Many Bluegill will a Bass Eat a Day?

ok, so I have a 1/4 acre pond...(soon to be renovated to 1/2 acre or more)
This spring 2015 I stocked 1lb of bluegill, 1lb of threadfin shad...
I waited all summer before I was going to stock some LMB... I had successful bluegill spawns over the summer...but we also had a few floods..and some invasive species got into the pond..
GSF and Bullhead and even a few small LMB..
The problem was I had 2 clouds of baby bullheads probably 100-200 each swimming around my pond for the past 4 weeks.. and no predators to do anything....so on the recommendation of someone on my post, they told me to stock a few bass....but before I did stock some bass, I stocked another 1lb of threadfin and 1lb of bluegill..

Stocking
Well maybe I went a little overboard.. I have stocked 6 bass...not just any bass
two are 2lbers
three are 4lbers
one is a 5lber...
I went to a local fishing hole and caught a few of these guys and moved them in... Well the good news is I don't have a bullhead problem anymore..within 1 week I did not see the balls of catfish anymore..bad news is..now I gotta feed these girls. (I want these girls to be the Rosie O'donnell sisters..)

So I went to a local community pond that had a stunted bluegill population and caught 110 multiple size fish and moved them.
So I did the math and even with 110... that is still only 18 bluegill per bass..(Not including frogs, threadfin and previous bluegill/yoy, gsf, bullhead) etc..

I know bass are opportunistic feeders and will eat even if they are not "hungry" i.e like this guy feeding his bass: "bass eats 36 goldfish a day"

So I have a 2 part question:
So how many full grown bluegill will a large bass eat a day? and how long will that sustain them? Lets say she eats 2 bluegill 1/4lb each...so she has 1/2 in her belly...how long will that sustain her? 1 day, 2 days? a week?



Thanks

I'm far from an expert, but until one shows up I'll try to help.

The honest answer is -- It depends. In general, predatory fish like LMB have to eat 10 lb of fish to gain 1 lb themselves. So 1/2 lb in her belly will eventually translate, under normal conditions, to a gain of .05 lbs, or perhaps 6/10 of an ounce in weight.

But "normal conditions" is the kicker. If the water is cool or cold, LMB metabolism slows and perhaps fewer calories are used to move around. Result: LMB remains full longer, and/or gains more weight from same food. Hot water conditions would be the reverse.

And how hard did the LMB have to work to catch the BG in the first place? LMB that have to swim a lot burn off more calories than those that don't. That's one of the reasons why bass get bigger when they have a small hunting area around some type of cover or structure rather than cruising large areas to find food.

I don't have exact numbers, obviously. Given the cool conditions we have now, I suspect the bass will be fine for a while with 1/2 lb of BG in their bellies. Specifics beyond that I leave to the pros.

Pretty good way to solve a bullhead problem.

The biggest consideration is that the bass are going to spawn. I would try to remove those that you have. You probably won't be able to catch all of them. A 1/4 or 1/2 acre water hole will not support bass spawning in our area. If you can eliminate them by using live bait, I would go back with either some hybrid stripers or all female bass.

2 possible things to do is fish it heavily and keep dumping stunted bluegills in for them.

I did something similar in my 1 acre pond. I have been battling bullheads since all of the Texas rain filled my pond up this past spring. A few months ago, I counted 5 individual balls of baby bullheads at one time in various spots around the pond. The next week I went and picked up 25 adult LMB based on a thread I posted here. I haven't seen a single bullhead swarm since!

It was a little earlier in my stocking plan then I wanted to put the LMB in, but it was that or have my pond taken over by bullheads.

Now I'm a little worried that this wild bunch is just beating my fledgling forage base to a pulp! Oh well, they're fun to catch!

Yeah I worried that the bullheads would get too big for fingerling bass to eat... Since the pond is so small I opted for some larger fish, if you are going to catch something might as well be something big!
The problem is these fish are a lot smarter than young dumb bass..I've only tried fishing for them twice for about 30-45 minutes each time...I can easily fish the whole pond and not get a bite...ha but I know if and when I do, it will be worth it.
My goal is to make sure they are sustained through the winter until the spring spawn of fish happen.. hopefully they don't decimate the population of bluegill until then.

Shotguns work amazingly well on balls of bullheads.

haha That sounds way more fun! I actually had to recently dispose of a snapping turtle headed to our pond..I only had my 270 with me...I didn't realize how much power that thing has..I was face timing with my sister during the encounter and somehow she screen shotted the incident...the turtle went flying about 3 feet in the air...

Well I think I just found my answer...

Trophy bass
So you think you want to grow trophy bass? If so, get ready to feed them, feed them well - and this may be more of a challenge than you realize.
Recent research suggests that largemouth bass, under optimal conditions, are capable of consuming as much as 5 percent of their body weight daily. That means a 5-pound bass, feeding at maximum efficiency, will consume a quarter pound per day ... nearly 2 pounds per week... over 50 pounds during a normal growing season (March-October).
That's 10 times its body weight, just during the growing season!
Let's assume that the typical pond has roughly 125 pounds per acre of largemouth bass, ranging in size from juveniles to mature adults. Given this model, these individuals would consume as much as six-plus pounds of forage per day... over 40 pounds in a week ... and more than 1,300 pounds in a growing season.
This is for one acre.
http://www.bassresource.com/fish_biology/trophy_bass_prey.html

So doing some math here...
I have 110 stocked bluegill at about 3-6oz each.. so average 4 bluegill =1lbs. 110= 27.5lbs
So based on an average growing season I can expect a 5lb bass to eat 8 bluegill a week at 4oz each if they were just to eat up to 5% their body weight a day..
So 110 bluegill is roughly 13.75 weeks of food for one 5lb bass..

Cool info. Did you consider your bass is growing? Theoretically, after eating nearly 28lbs of BG in about 14 weeks, your 5 lb bass is now a 7.8lb bass!

The article noted in the link was authored by a knowledgeable fisheries biologist - Norm Latona. Norm has written several articles for PBoss magazine. The food consumption (5%) noted in the article is at the optimum rate and as a bass matures to large size the consumption is often not at the 5% total body weight/day and is closer to 3% where good growth still occurs. Consumed weight of 3% is still a lot of food. As the water cools during winter the food consumption decreases as the water gets cooler.

3zek3l - To keep your bass healthy during winter make an effort to add more of those stunted BG at the rate of about 3-5 BG(3"-5") per bass per week during TX winter(48F-55F). 6 bass x 3BG X 20 weeks = 360-480BG should keep your 6 bass in good body condition till May.

Bill, that is why the Good Lord allows Tilapia to reproduce in my pond for most of the months in the yr. Man oh man, can they reproduce or what !!

Tracy

I have been trying to wrap my head around these numbers and it is a real eye opener, at least to me. Say you put only one 5 pound bass in a 1/4 acre pond. That pond needs to produce like a thousand 3 to 5 inch BG a year just for that one fish! Then you figure that big bass will also have the gap to be taking out your adult BGs along the way; making it even harder to keep up the BG population. Maybe that's one of the big reasons folks say you can't produce big bass in a small BOW. Seems there is no way a small pond can produce enough forage to feed big bass so constant supplemental stocking of large forage would be required.

The larger bass often eat larger food items which extrapolates to fewer items eaten each year if the food is adequate. In reality I think the amount of food eaten to gain weight is based more on pounds consumed rather than numbers. Often if they are eating higher numbers the amount of weight gain will not be as large when expending more energy capturing more items.

Many bass are doing well to gain a pound per year which equates to eating 8-10 lbs of food. Put in perspective for 4" BG there are 144-181 in 8 to 10 lbs. For 5" BG there 72 to 90 in 8 to 10 lbs.

Hey Bill, I wonder if that takes the age of the bass into consideration? I am assuming these bass to be 5-7 years old..based on the pond age that I caught them from.(possibly older) Do older bass grow as fast as a younger bass?
My assumption would be no. So even if I stocked a 5lber and made the food available I wouldn't think they would be able to grow that fast if they ate everything in the pond?

I need to find out how old the bass are that I stocked, I think I can take a scale sample and count rings correct?

That would at least let me track one of them during this next growing season (2016) to determine her age and how much she grew or didn't grow.

Does anyone know at what age a bass stops growing? or do they grow their whole life as long as they eat well?

I think you can get a rough idea of age using scales, but it's open to some amount of interpretation. Otoliths are the preferred method.

Here: http://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=308826

There is a TPWD study following LMB for 16 years. Growth slows with age. First few years are fast then slowing.

You know I just saw this documentary on Dotty and realized this girl put on a 1lb+ per year in her old age! Wow That is impressive....So for some reason this bass kept growing right up until she died...In 2003, she weighed in at 21.11 and in 2006 25lb 1oz,

http://www.espn.com/outdoors/fishing/news/story?page=world_record_bass_dies


"Dickerson was the first to realize the dream in 2003, and he thought the record was officially broken when he picked her off a spawning bed. He said the three friends immediately weighed Dottie at around 23 pounds, but it took the Game and Fish three hours to get to the lake to verify it as a record. By that time, they said, it was stressed and had lost a lot of its weight.

She officially weighed 21 pounds, 11 ounces, which still holds as the fourth largest largemouth bass ever recorded. That's when they noticed the spot on the gill and declared the race for "Dottie" and the record officially on.

They didn't pull her in again until 2006 when they again spotted her on a spawning bed and Weakley went to work. He eventually was able to set the hook, but when he got her to the boat, they noticed she had been foul hooked (not hooked in the mouth). Against his friends' wishes, Weakley decided not to try and make the record official with the Game and Fish.

Before releasing her, they weighed Dottie at 25 pounds, 1 ounce, shattering the record, took some photos. Weakley said he wasn't prepared for the scrutiny that followed."

Dottie was also in a BOW where they stocked large amounts of rainbow trout every few weeks all late fall/winter/early spring. Trout have more calories per pound than BG.

Now that you have the large bass in your pond, you have to worry about them pulling off a successful spawn. Then you have all the babies to deal with ..........

See this excellent thread on California LMB records and whys. Also has good info on cool water LMB growth from Tenn.

http://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=22660&page=1


Here is some direct data from one of the Calif. lakes in question. In the same lake under the same conditions Fla. and Northerns. There are also some interesting text points I will try to scan tomorrow. Here is a chart. The chart is of age , length and weight.

Nort. ------------------ Fla.

1 6.07 .20 ----------1 5.92 .15
2 11.62 1.10 --------2 12.75 1.50
3 14.73 2.15 --------3 15.69 2.84
4 16.37 2.91 --------4 17.65 4.15
5 17.94 3.80 --------5 20.39 6.44
6 19.11 4.57 --------6 22.05 8.32
7 20.28 5.39 --------7 23.08 9.61
8 20.35 5.53 --------8 23.36 10.05
9 none none --------9 24.80 12.15
10 none none -------10 25.63 13.32

A couple of their points - Flas live longer that is why no data on 9+ yr. Nort. - Waters rarely drops to 50 and thus a year long growth season - while shad are a forage RT were necessary to get to very large size - RT stocked in coldwater mths at 9-11 inches no fear and fat are easy pickings for large LMB - big LMB do not go deep after shad ( + 30 ft.) in winter but stay up ( less than 25 ft.) and eat RT and craws.

I have another study from Tenn. on topic that ties together the fattening up process Bruce ask about. From the 2 it appears on first examination that LMB really fatten up in fall 55-65 temps because they keep eating but metab. (food use) slows thus fats added . It also shows that LMB keep eating below 50 but at much reduced rate. More to come. \:\)

Cool video. I can see now that one big largemouth could do some serious cleaning up of the small goldfish left in my pond

Can anyone identify what is being spewed out of the LMB mouth at the 2:12 mark?

Looks like the gravel that is on the bottom of the tank.

Wow... I had not really thought this through. Reading the older post in this thread was eye opening.
4" BG there are 144-181 in 8 to 10 lbs.
5" BG there 72 to 90 in 8 to 10 lbs.

To make is easy, let's just say 100 BG required per yr for one Bass. I put 25 HSB (2-4") in the 1 Acre pond in Nov 2015 with 25 LMB (2-4"). That's at least 5000 BG required per year not taking into account LMB spawning.

I had 750 BG and 100 RES with a bunch of Fatheads to start with. By mid summer 2016 you couldn't find a fathead. Two weeks ago I hooked my first HSB and it broke my line close to the bank (light tackle but what fun). I'm hoping it was at least 2 lbs.

I'm now intrigued by the thought of adding Tilapia to maybe allow some growth of the BG.

I agree with Chris that out of its mouth was bottom gravel. He should find some larger feeder fish for the bass. Any idea how long the bass is? It looks to be in pretty good body condition.

Guess I won't be putting any bass in my 1/4 acre pond. They would wipe out the BG and RES, then reproduce and stunt. I will let my CC be top predators.

I'd be willing to bet that most people don't realize just how many fish a LMB will eat per year. That's why BG have such high reproductive cycles. That's also why we aren't walking across our ponds on the backs of the BG. 99%+ of the ones hatched get eaten.

Just a thought. Maybe "It Depends" comes into play here...Let's say you were planning to stock 15 to 20 LMB originally. What if you reduced that number by 5 and stocked 5 HSB and 10 LMB instead. IMO the HSB as they grow will target the fusiform 3 to 5 inch LMB new spawn before they do the 3 to 5 inch BG. I also think the CC will prefer the fusiform bass as well. IMO Effectively, you would then have two non reproducing predators of your apex LMB predator. To take it one step further, if required, you remove all LMB over 15 or 16 inches when caught. You can also harvest a few HSB and ladder stock 8 to 9 inch ones as required.

Just my 1 cent...

You could always put one single LMB in. As long as someone did not bucket stock another, should be no reproduction and it at least would help the CC control some of the recruitment.

If you caught it sometime and it was outside optimal size range, replace it with a smaller one.

Bill, I cannot get HSB here.

Dang! I thought HSB were everywhere in the South. IMO it wouldn't have to be HSB. If you wanted to pursue a stocking plan like this, is there a non reproducing predator that is available to you?

I have successfully controlled LMB from over population in my little pond so far (knock on wood) using YP, WE, SMB and CC as predators of the apex LMB predator spawn. My primary forage is PS and BG. I'm entering year 4 and so far so good. Definitely not a stock and walk away management plan though. Need to monitor what's going on closely and make adjustments as required.

Bill,
Lonoke is almost a 4 hour drive from here one way. I have to depend on the fish trucks that come to the nearby feed stores. They have CC, LMB, CNBG, RES, HBG, GC, and FHM. That's it.

I understand John. It's tough for me to get a lot of fish that I want as well. I had to have some of my lower forage species shipped and that gets very expensive very fast, especially with the high cost of shipping.

FWIW the "traditional" stocking plan around here is still BG, CC and LMB (and more recently, RES too if south of highway 88). I have to believe there is some reason this stocking plan has withstood the test of time.

Good luck John. We all know how much work you've put into those ponds. My money is on you to make them meet your goals.

Bill D.

I have had HSB delivered and I have also picked them up from Overtons and had a 3hr drive back to the pond. The HSB made the drive without any problem, and I believe they would have made a 4 hr trip without any problem. My point, the best fish supplier can and will package the fish for a 4 hr drive. John, I would contact your HSB supplier and see if they can package HSB for 4 hr transport.

Thanks Scott.

Anybody who has fished my main pond knows they will catch a lot of bluegill that are bigger than most of the largemouth bass they will pull out of that pond.

It is a pond with lots of stunted largemouth bass. Yes, there are a few Big Bubba Bass (BBBs) in there. But the vast majority of LMB are 10 inches or less. In the 10-12 inch range, using the Cody Technique, I suspect the BG in that range probably outnumber the LMB by a significant number.

It is a pond I've cultured for big bluegill. It is very common to catch a number of bluegill in the 10-12 inch range. Now and then we get some bigger ones.

The smaller adult bluegill that don't fit into the mouths of these smaller bass get invited in for dinner whenever they are hooked. This pond also has some pretty good sized Hybrid Striped Bass (HSB), and it always has too many oversized channel catfish (CC). Long before we bought the property, somebody put black crappie in this pond. There are still some of them who act as predators. None are ever released if brought to shore. It is common to catch about 5 to 10 black crappie early each spring. All are usually in the 14-16 inch range.

With all of this predation, I'm surprised I have any bluegill at all. What we do have is always a lot of fun to catch. Many are also very enjoyable at a fish fry.

This same pond has also produced a number of redear sunfish in the range of 2+ lbs., and/or 14 inches.

As for the bluegill eaten by bass each season, it is probably in the millions if we start counting them at the yolksac stage. From late April to late September it is probably in the many thousands each day.

Ken

Great post Ken,

With the goal of big BG, it sounds like those stunted LMB are your best buddies. Do you ever harvest any LMB or C&R only to encourage the largest population of them that you can?

JohnF - A large percentage of the HSB are raised at KeoFishFarm in Arkansas.

Good question Bill. I certainly don't have all the answers, and it also depends on location, water, etc.

At our WV farm we do harvest all of our fish. To us, it is like a garden. To grow big carrots, you must thin them.

We do harvest mostly all of the LMB. Again, in a comparison to a garden, it is like putting radish seeds between your beets or head lettuce. The radishes make you space your other vegetables so they have room to grow.

I set a slot limit, depending on what we are catching in mid-April to mid-May in our WV farm ponds. The LMB slot limit usually ranges from 10-12 inches to about 12-14 inches. We throw back everything above and below those sizes. For us, this is relatively easy to do, because it is extremely hard for anyone to get to our ponds without being detected.

We mostly just take those that are above the slot limit. I have "rehab" cages at the end of my docks for injured fish. That is where some go.

IMO, at 12 inches, a LMB provides about the same size breaded and fried "fish fingers" as an 8-9 inch bluegill.

When we get "monster" momma or poppa LMB that are above our slot limit, with a Wr (relative weight) of well over 1.00, we return them to the ponds.

I filet and skin most fish (and venison, squirrels, etc.). For freshwater and saltwater fish, I usually get two, four or six decent bone-free pieces from each fish, depending on the fish type and how much meat is on the rib cages. On saltwater flounder (flatfish), I sometimes get six pieces depending on how fat they are. On most other fish I get four decent bone-free pieces.

We don't do much catch and release in our ponds because we don't want to create unwanted hook shyness. Bluegill less than about 6 inches and channel catfish less than about 12 inches are the few exceptions. Other than that, it is into the frying pan or to the bears-behind-the-barn gut pile smorgasbord.

Ken

Sounds like you and I have the same strategy when it comes to harvest of what nature provides. I have to admit the coon I ate as a kid was not my favorite table fare! I will pull up a chair to young ground hog though!

I like your slot limit on the LMB. Makes a lot of sense to me.

Do larger LMB eat every day?

Not necessarily. It depends on metabolic rate (water temp controls). Metabolic rate controls digestion and absorption of food. In warm temps (late spring and fall) they eat lots more than in cold or very hot temps.