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#242152 12/03/10 05:44 PM
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This is my first post. I have recently renovated an existing pond, deepened and enlarged it. The pond is 24 feet deep and about 1/2 to 3/4 acre is size. Just stocked it with FHM and golden shiners.

The inlet flows through a smaller shallower pond with minnows and outlets through a 8 inch drainage pipe under the dam.

I want to stock both speckled trout (brook trout) and rainbow trout. I plan on 8 - 10 inch fish. Anything in particular I should be worried about with booth of these species together?

Max

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Gmax welcome to pond boss, glad to see another trout pond owner.
Have you taken temps of the pond during the summer?, I'm sure your aware of the temperature max. of trout.
Having a 24 ft. depth is a good start but also how much inflow can you count on during the summer.
If the oxygen and temps are ok I don't see any problems with brookies and rainbows together, I've had those 2 plus browns together and they all grow well.
Besides your natural forage are you going to feed trout pellets?



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Originally Posted By: Gmax
This is my first post. I have recently renovated an existing pond, deepened and enlarged it. The pond is 24 feet deep and about 1/2 to 3/4 acre is size. Just stocked it with FHM and golden shiners.

The inlet flows through a smaller shallower pond with minnows and outlets through a 8 inch drainage pipe under the dam.

I want to stock both speckled trout (brook trout) and rainbow trout. I plan on 8 - 10 inch fish. Anything in particular I should be worried about with booth of these species together?

Max


Max -- first, a very big welcome from the Pond Boss crew.

You shouldn't have any issues stocking rainbow and brook trout together, especially at the sizes you are contemplating.

This publication: Getting to Know Your Trout has some very good info about brookies and rainbows for New York state, which may be applicable to your location.

It sounds like you've got a great start. Your pond renovation and your forage stocking sound perfect. I think our friend AP hit on all the main points you might need to consider.

You didn't mention what part of the country you are in, but the amount of ice, snow, and the amount of summer warming, all have very differing effects on pond life. The advice for lower parts of Quebec and Ontario, versus the upper Northwest Territories will certainly be a lot different. Although probably not a problem, but if you are as far south as Windsor, or even Toronto, you could have some temperature issues in the summer without aeration. The bottom may stay real cold, but it may be devoid of oxygen without aeration or significant water movement.

Trout need a lot of oxygen. During the winter your pond will need a lot of incoming water, with access to open air riffles, or your pond will need relatively thin ice (4-6 inches or less, most of the winter) without lots of snow. The trout can make it through the winter without a lot of forage, but once the water starts to warm in the spring, they will need plenty of forage or supplemental feeding in the form of pellets.

More than likely, your trout will be "put-and-take" as most ponds don't have enough fast flowing water for the fish to successfully reproduce. But, adding a small batch of trout each spring or fall should keep you in perpetually good fishing.

If you can, post a few photos.

Again welcome. Look around the forum. You should also find a very helpful bunch of people here when you post.

Regards,
Ken

P.S. I'm a long distance south of the border, but I stock rainbow and golden trout in my pond nearly every winter. By geography, I'm in the warm and sunny south -- but it has been snowing on-and-off on our mountain ridge since last weekend. We don't expect to get much above freezing in the foreseeable future. We've had "heavy flurries" on-and-off since about 10:00 AM this morning, but the ground is still just above freezing, so nothing is sticking -- yet! I'm sure the trout are happy.




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Thanks for the warm welcome. My pond is in Campbellford Ontario ( 1 1/2 hr east of Toronto). In the summer there is some flow into the pond through a shallower pond (14 ft deep) so I don't know what the summer water temps are going to look like. I will try and determine them next year.

I intend on feeding trout pellets from a local source.

I intend on installing a windmill aeriation system as soon as the budget allows. Don't want to bankrupt the family for my hobby.

I plan on raising fHM in the shallow pond, trap and transfer occasionally to feed the trout.

Any good advice on feeding FHMs in my minnow pond?

I also need to find an easy way to trap them or do I need a sine net?

My local guy says I can feed them trout pelleets, what advice do you have?

thanks for the info.

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Max your not that far from me, about 125 miles as the crow flies.
You must get lake effect from Lake Huron since your north of Lake Ontario, we get 200 to 300 inches of snow each winter mostly from Lake Ontario, and this causes problems with winter kill if you don't keep an area open for air exchange or have a good inflow of oxygenated water.

Since you have a deep pond an aerator keeping an opening in the pond should be adequate for trout, but with just FHM & GSH in the pond for this winter you should be ok. If you have electricity at the pond and not much spare cash you can put in a small linear air pump with a soaker hose for less than $100.
Having that smaller pond would be good for raising the FHM & GSH, I put both species in my pond the first year and stocked BRKT and RBT the second year, I never saw the FHM again after the second year, maybe the trout got them all or the water was too acidic for them. The GSH have thrived with the pond almost 5 years old and the trout love them.
As I mentioned winter kill before, that has been my problem, the pond is only 8ft. deep and it leaks, spring , summer and fall I pipe in 95 gpm and there are no problems, but haven't been able to do that in the winter. Now I'm pumping in water from the stream thru an insulated pipe and combined with the aerator and a submersible pump moving water around the dock I hope this is the year the trout survive.
For raising your feed minnows you can buy inexpensive small fish feed, you won't need high protein trout feed for that. If you make some large homemade funnel traps you can use them to trap out the minnows for transfer to the trout pond. Don't be surprised if your trout prefer the natural fish forage over pellets, if you have plenty of minnows and bugs they might not feed heavily on the pellets after a week or two after stocking, that's been my experience.

If your not sure of the summer pond temps it might be best to only stock a small number of trout next year, maybe 40, and monitor the temps and their progress throughout the summer, since your pond is deep that's a real plus, but not a guarantee.
Good luck with your pond, if you search this forum you will find lots of good info, keep us updated and photo's are always welcome.



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Thanks for the advice.

I don't have electricity to the pond that's why I will buy a windmill and aerate with wind.

I have looked for minnow traps and have not heard of 'funnel' traps. I get the idea but if there is a post on how to make them or a website with a diagram it would help.

I have bought minnow traps and they don't seem to catch many minnows.

Any good minnow trap designs would be welcome.

Max

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Max, here's a photo of one of my home made traps, I used 1/4 inch plastic fencing, just make the cylinder, then shape a funnel and an end and zip tie it together, I used a wood hoop from a craft store to keep the shape at the door end, also put a piece of metal stock on the bottom to weigh it down, I used aluminum.
The best bait for the trap I have found is beef liver.

I use the traps to check on the size of the trout, but also get mostly GSH and some pumpkinseeds.




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Ap, that's a neat trap.


It's not about the fish. It's about the pond. Take care of the pond and the fish will be fine. PB subscriber since before it was in color.

Without a sense of urgency, Nothing ever gets done.

Boy, if I say "sic em", you'd better look for something to bite. Sam Shelley Rancher and Farmer Muleshoe Texas 1892-1985 RIP
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Gmax,

Just remember mixing the water column in a trout pond can be a Catch-22. That is, you could warm up the water column and make it too warm for the trout. On the other hand they won't make it in the cold water if the oxygen gets depleted.

Hopefully your pond is far enough north and/or doesn't have any of these issues to concern you.


If pigs could fly bacon would be harder to come by and there would be a lot of damaged trees.






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I like your minnow trap design.

I will be sure and turn off the windmill aerator in the summer months to prevent screwing up the thermocline. (once I get it purchased and installed).

I will likely need the extra aeration in the winter months since the inflow of water is reduced or frozen solid.

thanks

Max

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Max, as Cecil has said you have to be careful with trout when you aerate in the summer, I have my aerator set on a thermostat in warm weather so it only runs when the air temp is lower than the water temp.
I'm not familiar with windmill aerators and if you can adapt a thermostat to control it.



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Hi Gmax, I am not a experienced pond owner but in the 2-3 years that we have had our trout pond, I have found a few things that work. Fathead minnows seem to be a great food source for trout. I put in one gallon the first year and they seem to thrive and reproduce in the weeds. The trout are feasting on them.
In regard to aeration, the first year I incorrectly aerated 24/7 and I lost all 200 rainbows. The next year I aerated only 2-3 hours a day (mostly very early in the morning) and the trout survived very nicely. I aerate in the winter only by the dock 3 times a day for 15 minutes each time. That is where I feed the trout a limited amount of Pellets in the winter.

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Thanks Timberframe

I will be stocking my newly renovated pond in the spring. The weeds have not yet grown around the edges of the pond. There is little cover for the fathead minnows except for a few leaves that blew in the pond in fall. I was thinking of throwing some christmas trees in around one end near the shore to provide a little cover for the minnows. Otherwise, I think the trout will make short work of my 1,000 fathead minnows.

Any other low or no cost solutions to providing cover for minnows. I do have a hundred acre farm and could cut some brush but I don't know if this would make the pond harder to fish from shore.

Any ideas?

Max

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Yes - see this from the archives on FH and reproduction.

http://www.pondboss.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=115165#Post115165

Last edited by ewest; 12/27/10 09:34 AM.















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Tframe - IMO it would be good to add some brush to one whole end of the pond. Add brush so you can easily take or drag it out later when some weeds get established. Try using larger branches with butt ends anchored or just lying on shore and tops in the water. Branches can be trimmed so not so many limbs are sticking out of the water. Minnows will survive predation best in near shore shallow water areas; similar to natural habitats. Maybe try using mixed species of tree branches so some branches are finely divided and some more coarsely divided. My experience says best use of brush for cover is to initially use a lot of it placed close together to simulate habitat or cover provided by weed beds. Remember this is cover for minnows not predators. Adding brush pieces along one whole end is not too much in my opinion. You want to provide an abundance or even what looks like too much cover initially, so you definately achieve some minnow survival over winter so breeders are present for the next breeding season. If you are having to always add minnows then your cover is not adequate or you have too many predators; usually both. As you see lots of minnows reproducing and surviving each year then you can start gradually removing some branches as they decompose and beneficial weeds colonize as natural cover.

Last edited by Bill Cody; 12/27/10 10:24 AM.

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Ewest

Thanks for the info on FH minnows. I will be trying some pallets as well for flathead minnow spawning in the spring.

As I stated before I have not added any predators, except for an annoying merganzer that has now migrated south. Other than that the minnows are the only fish in the pond.

Max

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Welcome - here is some more.

From the archive on structure http://www.pondboss.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=92463&page=1


Finally, we added our FH stakes.
In the interest of alliteration, we decided to name this the Future Fathead Fornication Fort.








Xmas trees work well for BG cover from predation – will work for FH also in shallow water.


















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Wow

Thanks for the great ideas for FHM. I didn't know the males were territorial.

The new pond has a good flow through and a small 3 foot by 3 foot ice free opening near the inlet. The 8 inch drain is kept open by the flow and I don't think winter kill will be a big issue for me if I continue to get this kind of water flow through the pond with a 24 foot depth.

The ice is 8 to ten inches thick right now and great for skating. We've already had a few skating parties over the Xmas holidays. My wife seems to be warming to the idea of having this pond even though it was expensive to renovate.

Max

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Here is a picture of my trout pond after it filled up.

http://i1081.photobucket.com/albums/j346/glen_maxwell/088.jpg

Max

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It looks great!


www.hoosierpondpros.com


http://www.pondboss.com/subscribe.asp?c=4
3/4 to 1 1/4 ac pond LMB, SMB, PS, BG, RES, CC, YP, Bardello BG, (RBT & Blue Tilapia - seasonal).
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Hey guys

Finally got the minnows stocked in the pond, added some brush for cover til the weeds grow.

The bluegills from my inflow side pond have decided to take up residence in my trout pond pictured above.

Now I have tons of small blue gill minnows, mud minnows shiners and fat head minnows.

I stocked 150 rainbow trout from the 4-8 inch range (all I could get from my local supplier).

I tried to catch a few tonight with my fly rod and a little blackfly imitation. The trout were too busy jumping at may flies at the surface.

I tried to feed the trout but they were not interested in pellets. I guess they are too full of natural feed to be interested.

Thanks for all the advice.

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Good luck with the trout, hopefully your conditions will allow them to survive the summer, keep us posted.



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Hey guys - my first post. I have experience with a 1/2 acre warmwater pond I built on my property with largemouth and hybrid bluegill, but I want to build a coldwater pond for trout. I have been told I will need to install a well with a "high flow" water pump.
My pond site will be at least 100 by 50. I think I understand the need for depth and cold aerated water. I have no clue what expense is involved with such a project (not the pond construction itself - but the well/pump issues!). My place is in southern WI. Any advice on pump size, ballpark costs, etc?
I appreciate your advice - very cool forum I just stumbled on!
Thanks.

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Cecil Baird1 is the man to talk to about your project. He should see this topic soon. From what he has taught me about doing a small trout pond like your plan, you might want to consider building a shape that has best use of keeping it cool during mid-summer. Round vs rectangle vs square. CB1 has lots of experience with your project topic.

Last edited by Bill Cody; 10/23/15 07:35 PM.

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If you want to holdover trout (trout that make it through the summer) that will reach large size, you need the following:

Water that is well oxygenated and will not exceed 68 F. in the summer. Low 60's is even better. You also need to feed them a good quality commercial artificial feed. Keep in mind there are unstratified ponds that have cold water in the depths but most will have issues with that water becoming anoxic later in the summer. And it's doubtful the trout will come up for artificial feed much before they expire.

Smaller is actually better when it comes to a trout pond size as it's easier to keep cool, and doesn't require as much well water to do so. My trout pond is 88 by 59 feet and only about 10 feet deep in the center, but has steep sides to keep warming down. Even running a diffuser on the bottom center during the hottest part of the summer (highs in the 90's) my pond pretty much stays at 62 F. from top to bottom. I run a well at 45 gpm 24/7 through late spring and the summer into early fall. The overflow goes to my larger warmwater pond or bypasses it depending on what I want to do. Shut the well off

Believe it or not my 1/10th acre pond size is plenty big for enjoyable fishing.
In an earthen pond about 12 lbs. of trout per gpm is a rule the Brits use. That of course would be your final pond weight.

Btw my well water temp is 51.6 F. and it coincides with my mean annual ambient air temp of 52 F. In Wisconsin your ground water can be in the 40's depending on how far north you are. Could allow you to pump less well water.






Last edited by Cecil Baird1; 10/23/15 06:45 PM.

If pigs could fly bacon would be harder to come by and there would be a lot of damaged trees.






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