Pond Boss Forums POND CONSTRUCTION Creating habitat 6 acre HDPE lined bass lake starting over TN

9 year old 6 acre trophy bass lake flooded from the Harpeth River during the 2010 middle TN flood. Crappie and gizzard shad came in, and lots of trophy bass literally went down the drain. This spring, a beautiful 12.3 pounder was caught, photographed and weighed, and successfully released. Several bass in the 8+ range were caught this year, but now catching 10 crappie to 1 bass. will start draining this week, will take 40 days to drain with 3 hp 3" suction electric pump, lake was designed so that all water gathers in very small valley near the spillway, exposed 40 mil liner on the entire floor of lake. Since water temps will be favorable, and would be simple to build small dam just above collection area, should I save the shad, big bluegill, and huge bass? I was advised by a few experts to start afresh for balance reasons....Jeff J

Hey Jeff,

I would say welcome but I can see you have been a member for a long time. The one thing I don't see in your post is Why you are draining the lake. Is it because you think you have too many crappie? If so, how big are the crappie you are catching?

Bill D.

Welcome, Jeff.

You could keep some of your bigger BG for restocking, and building a forage base faster. If wanting trophy size LMB, I'd start fresh on them, because you never know if an 8" LMB is a yearling, or older and stunted. A stunted fish can grow, but size gains lost can never get made up. Save some RES if you had some also!

Have you considered using a siphon system to drain? I can't imagine a 3" electric sump pump draining 6 acres in 40 days...40 weeks, maybe. Electric pumps have a low head pressure and flow rates drop REALLY fast with each foot of lift. A temporary 6" siphon would drain it fairly quickly and can be installed permanently if wanted later.

Give me a call when you start draining...I may be able to find new homes for some of the panfish....not the crappy ones though!

Edit: Be sure to nuke any remaining water heavily with HYDRATED Lime to ensure nothing survives in the puddles, or your draining will be a lot of wasted time, money, effort, and fish restocking.

I want to rid the lake completely of crappie, caught 3 this week in the 1.25-1.8 pound, but 30+ 5-7", the bass fishery was on fire before the flood. THANKS for your response....JJ

thanks Rainman, the 3"pump will pull 130 GPM, lake contains 7,000,000 gallons, I own the pump, and will use it to top off lake from nearby river. Would you try to salvage some 3" gizzard shad as well? Thank you for your feedback....JJ

could you bring in tiny crappy again by pumping in from the river that might have them in it?

BOBBY, good point, i plan to use a nylon super fine sock over the strainer, the same that I did when originally filled 9 years ago, never saw a crappie until after the flood in 2010... JJ

Just FYI, a 4" Siphon will drain about 1200 GPM and a 6", about 3000 GPM.

In a pond only 6 acres, I'd stock Threadfin Shad over gizzard. but gizzards do reproduce faster. Problem is when they die off and pollute the water.

7,000.000 gallons in 6 acres would be an average depth of only ~3.5'. That's pretty shallow. Most run around a 6' average depth, which would be ~11,700,000 gallons in roughly 36 acre/feet of water

I'd not save any of the Gizzard shad. They can overpopulate the lake fast if there isn't a high population of 24"+ LMB in there. They could be added later, but just not in the beginning.

I agree with Rainman, nuke any remaining puddles. All it takes is 2 crappie..............

One acre, one foot deep is 325,851 gallons. How deep is the pond?

6 acres and 7' avg. depth, that would be 13,685,742 at full pool. I suppose I was incorrect on the volume. O K, suppose I will get everything out, hate to lose those monster bass, thanks for all the advice....JJ

set up an above ground pool from walley world and hold the giant bass in them , some one might want or have a need for them ...

I agree with Bobby here I would do everything I could to save the big bass. above ground pool is a good idea even if it's just one of those 12 foot ones and aerate the heck out of it. Fill it with your pump. It would be a shame to kill them off. Some may not make it but it would be worth it to me to try and save them.

RC

Although if you start over not really sure what you would feed 8 plus pound bass in a empty 6 acre pond??? You would have to get some bigger bait fish in there relatively quick to help maintain them...

Good Luck man,

RC

Take those gallons and cut it in half. Typically take surface area x .5 of the max depth for a guesstimate on volume. Adjust either way if you know the slope profile.

If those LMB get put back, just think of the size and price of the forage fish that he has to add.

If the forage is there, and good "shooter" genetics are used for the LMB, I think he could see 4 to 5 pound bass in 2 years of stocking fingerlings.

I'd be more tempted to save all the BG in a temp pond than the LMB.

if he was able to save some alive some one might have a use for them, not nessiarily to put back on the pond at hand.
It would be a shame to waste large bass like that, or just have one Big fish fry...

Yeah that's why I wrote what I did as an after thought nothing to feed them fish.... Your probably right esshup if he were to save 100 to 200 adult BG he would have a great head start on his forage base that's for sure!! It sure would suck to lose 8 and 10 pound bass tho..... ughhh

RC

Big Bass CAN be saved, but it is NOT easy to establish the proper forage classes/species. Large LMB also rarely continue to thrive once moved out of the environment that made them big. IIRC, Greg Grimes grew 7# LMB from <2" fingerlings in under 2 years in the Foxworthy lake with prepping LOADS of forage for them.

One 24"+ LMB can wipe out $3000 worth of stocker fish if not restocked correctly!

Rainman, that's what I thought, will start with a clean slate this winter or early spring with forage fish, then intro bass in fall....thanks, jj

You were able to grow some great LMB in that BOW, so the water quality and habitat is there. Get it so the LMB go to sleep with their mouth open at night and wake up with full bellies in the morning and you can grow some large LMB in a hurry.

Saving as many BG as you can to restock the lake will help the pocketbook.

Sounds good Esshup, can do that, thanks, jj

OK, for anyone willing to share advice, what would be the likelihood of success if the lake was drained out with the following kept in a holding facility until refilling?

1. 6 or more healthy LMB females 10+ pounders
2. 6 or more smaller but healthy LMB males
3. tons of bluegill ranging in size from 1+ pounders to fingerlings
(hundreds of mature, and thousands of smaller)
4. few hundred 3" gizzard shad

Then follow up with heavy FH minnow stocking in the spring.

This would allow me to keep trophy genetics, like ShareLunker program in Texas.

I've got 8 years invested in some of these huge bass, would hate to see them taken off to other ponds....JJ

I am not a pro, but you asked for opinions so FWIW IMHO if you successfully pull off the BG restocking you describe, I would consider stocking at least some good genetics fingerling LMB along with the large ones you are retaining. Your current plan provides no small size class LMB for control of the small BG, new BG spawn and shad spawn. Those big bass will ignore those little fish. You are betting on the 6 possible big LMB pairs finding each other in a pretty big puddle at spawning time. Might happen. Might not. I would hedge my bet with the additional stocking of a few LMB fingerlings. Just my 2 cents

I'd agree with Bill D. Your best bet on trying to maintain a lunker ready lake is to stock all age/size classes.

My biggest concern on restocking your lunker bass, is they will lose weight fast. LMB over a pound or so don't often do well when stocked into new surroundings. They may even doo poorly in holding areas.

ok, thanks guys, jj

The way I look at it is your plan is relatively sound, stocking the large good genetic fish to act as brood fish. So what if they lose weight, it's their offspring that you are concerned about. You may only have a few years left in the largest ones anyway - how many LMB do you know of that are over 10 years old?

I agree about stocking more LMB as soon as the fish go in to up chances of a successful spawn being pulled off, but make sure that the LMB are of good genetics. The female LMB finding the male LMB is akin to the needle in the haystack with only 2 per acre.

I'd leave the Gizzard shad out for a few years, and only put them in when there is a good population of large LMB in the pond. Your good population of large LMB would be very small for the first years, mostly consisting of smaller LMB and I'm worried that the GS will get out of hand.

Thanks again for the feedback Esshup, my guess is 6-10 over 10 pounds. I purchased a gopro, and will video the drain down and refill, spending most footage on history and what we discover in the final puddle, will be informative and entertaining....JJ

Here's a pic of the lake record LMB caught by Duane Daugherty in Feb. of 2015 with Big Hammer swim bait; 12.3 pounds, hoping this girl can spawn out some future state record candidates....she was one of 400 stocked as F1 fingerling in spring of 2007 by Southeastern Pond Management....

Why drain the lake ?

Renovation is possible without that.

now catching 10 crappie to 1 bass, to rid the lake of crappie, carp, and gizzards, will keep the best bluegill and bass, and enhance attractors....JJ

I would do it... 10+lbers would be a shame to waste....and you have 1000's of fish in many stages for food..
I would just be worried about what will feed your baitfish.. Do you already have a feeding program for them?

Wow...if you went fishing and you got a bite....you know you would have a huge smile on your face! haha

I have 2 Sweeney auto feeders 2X daily with Purina Gamefish Chow, tilapia stocked every spring, add goldens and fathead minnows most years, will probably keep some 3"gizzards for the big girls to munch on as well. I can't wait until I get down to the final puddle, hopefully first or second week in December, will be some very interesting video....

Hope you have a whole bunch of your buddies standing by with fillet knives!

I may have looked past it, but you stated carp are in the pond as well. What species are they ?

Wild ones from the flood and white amur, but don't need them at all....

Tilapia can manage the minimal amount of algae that grows along the banks, the carp are stealing fish food from the bluegill at the feeders....JJ

Started seining this past weekend, keeping numbers of "good bass", one 12.5, another 11.5 lbs., all the golden shiners, and all the bluegill and redear, from 1" to big brood fish. Unfortunately the first day kept some gizzard shad too, the second day of seining produced another 30 good bass including a 9 lb. LM, lots of crappie, which were promptly thrown aside, and tons more gizzard shad. I only transferred good bass, bluegill, and goldies to the holding area. When the time comes to release all held fish back into main lake, I will double check the fish released to make certain someone didn't accidentally keep a crappie, and will discard the gizzards as well, didn't realize they had grossly overpopulated in 5 years. My crew will finish up seining the "last puddle" this coming Saturday, the question I have is "how many bluegill is too many?". I feel like keeping all I can get my hands on, but could I end up with too many? Thanks in advance for any advice, JJ

it's going to be interesting how things turnout in a year or so. Please keep us posted on how things go. If it were me, I would keep all the bg,res, and might even bump their numbers along with additional fhm's and TFS along with some new CB lmb added for spawning with the F1's returned to the lake.

Tracy

perhaps I missed it but what are you holding the keeper fish in. Large above ground pool or another small pond?

Dammed up a cove in the upper end, used gabon stone and 3/4 limestone, 45 mil epdm liner on dam attached to 40 mil hdpe lake bottom with bentonite. 10" schedule 40 pvc going thru bottom with kleenout plug on lower end, upper end 10" to 4" reducer tacked in with vaseline, connected to 90 degree elbow, then 4" pvc with strainer upright, so I can turn the 4" vertical pipe down a few degrees to drop water level, or all the way down to empty. After releasing fish back to main lake, the rock structure will be a major structure with a 10" pipe open for fish to use as they wish. This setup will literally give me an opportunity to select which fish go back into main lake before flooding. This material cost several thousand dollars, I did all the geotextile, material construction, lining, etc. I'm justifying the cost spent in saved fish and the rock dam will serve as a permanent fishing structure. And when the lake is dewatered in the future, a matter of when, the system for keeping and discarding is already in place. It covers about 1/3 acre, 3.5' deep at the dam, plenty of cover, and contains aeration.

Dang sounds like a epic project. Would love to see pictures of seined fish and lined cove setup.

ok, ill post some media soon....

So, even with the large LMB in there, the GS still overpopulated?

I'd go 30 or more BG per LMB.

Can I save too many BG? Yes you would not believe the numbers of gizzards, I thought the crappie were too plentiful....

did you create the holding pond dry then fill it?

just wondering how you are sure no unwanted fish are in it?

yes some pics and videos soon please..

Cove was dry before constructing dam, then filled with fresh strained water from nearby river, and keep in mind, I will see every fish before released to main lake, since someone during the sorting process may have goofed. Too much effort to allow one mistake to mess everything up.... JJ

What did you do with all those gizzard shad? A bait dealer license here in Indiana is only 35 bucks and you are in prime big blue catfish country. Bet you could have sold them quick to catfisherman and offset your cost of draining pond.

shad dead or frozen in ziplocks?

Most catfisherman want them fresh (I know because I travel the country fishing for BC).

When you were dropping pond have a few big holding tanks with a brine ice water mix and seine as alive and throw in. They will last that way for a significant time if water is kept full of ice (and slime drained). Just put an ad on craigslist, the various facebook pages in your area, and such. Let them come pick up. Shad aren't the desired fish species for monster blues but do work well. The big ones (10inches plus) go for about a buck a piece, it kept cold.

If anybody would build a pond to keep skipjack herrings and have them spawn, they would be millionaires. They usually go for 6-8 dollars a piece.

OK, thanks for the info....JJ

what is your secret to keeping them alive? I have tried to transport and they just die...Doesn't the ice shock kill them,...?