Pond Boss Forums INTRO Questions & Observations Yellow Bullhead; quest

Much in need of some yellow bullhead catfish....
(y'all know the ones with the cute all-white
central chin barbels)

Have exhausted all the other sites....polyculture,
fisheries, native fish conservancies, fisherman,
classifieds...with no positive results.

Someone in the know (ok, it was only Cecil), suggested I try the folks at Pond Boss.
My guess is there is no fish you would rather
have out of your pond than the YB.

So don't prove Cecil wrong.....Who has 1 to 3
dozen YB they can ship to me in SW Wash???

Finders fee paid to whoever puts me in touch with
the individual I have send me 1 to 3 dozen live
yellow bullhead.

PS If ye don't come up with me YB I'll put
a hex on all ye graemlins!

Hi Bob,

I have been doing searches for Yellow Bullhead Catfish thinking I might stumble onto something for you, but with no success. But I had a couple of thoughts. Pay ponds throughout the mid west use to stock heavily with catfish. If you can find any in Washington you might call the owners go there and watch what the people are catching and if you find any with Yellow Bullheads, you could buy them. The other thing you might do is to find a couple of conservation clubs in your area and print out flyers with a picture of the Yellow Bullhead and offer money for any that are caught for you. You also could put posters at different lake boat ramps with your telephone number in case they caught any to sell you. I once paid kids to catch crawfish for me.

John

John,
Thanks for the thoughtful reply.
Washington state has very few fish for
fee lakes. Even the one along I-5 FWy
couldn't make a go of it.....And what fish
for fee ponds we do have, most are stocked
with varieties of trout not warm water species.

As far as offering to buy fish from sports
fisherman...this is strictly taboo. Gamefish
(which YB is considered) can not be sold, traded,
bartered....etc. Ergo, nothing as overt as you
described (posting "bounty rewards" would work
here)

I have surveyed bank fisherman on a variety of
likely sloughs etc....no luck and I'm afraid
that the summer weather will be coming to an
end and my chances of getting YB are quickly diminishing.

I do appreciate your trying to help me out.

Bob

Bob,

Another possibility is to put an ad in Aquaculture magazine (828) 254-7334 or Fish Farming News (207) 367-2490. I don't know what it would cost, but it may not be too much. Even if it is getting late in the season you might be able to make a contact for next year.

I once caught a 3 lb yellow bullhead (I know what they are as I have a fisheries degree) in a local lake, but it was the only one I ever caught. Going out and trying to ger more more would be hard to do.

Would you still be interested next year? I like challenges, and if I found a local lake that has plenty I could put them in a floating cage. The fish would be free, but shipping them alive would be the killer. If I had an extra pond the easiest thing would be to allow the females to spawn and net up the fry and ship them air.

I hope you have someone on this site that has a pond with yellows in it. Then they could scoop net the fry up and ship.

Oh John, I think most, if not all, of the pay lakes use channel catfish anyway as they are easier to find for stocking.

Good Luck Bob

Hey Bob another thought is go to http://forums.gardenweb.com/forums/ponds and give a shot there. Also Mississippi Wildlife forums http://www.mdwfp.com/forum.asp?FORUM_ID=5 you never know. Bob

Yellow bullhead catfish.
Holy smokes. Most guys are trying to get rid of them.
I'll keep my eyes open for your request.
Mark McDonald
Editor, Pond Boss

Geez guys,
What's this "keep moving the cheese on me" all
about???

You're purportedly the best around and now you
are sending me a packing. I've got half a
mind to release all those gremlins you keep
corraled up.....

Dang, I paid $20 for the 2002 Aquaculture Magazine's Buyers guide. Called every bullhead
dealer listed. Then I called 30 some catfish
suppliers and another 10 leads from them....
Nobody but nobody has. Then I advertised
in fish section of a NW agriculture Mag
(Capital press under the fish section.....
4 weeks of ads and no nibbles), have over $150
in tel bills chasing down this species. The word gets out it will be listed on the ESA!

I will investigate advertising in each of
the 2 magazines you mentioned though. And I do
appreciate you pointing me to this new avenue.

(But shouldn't one expect more from the Pond
Boss "club") Inquiring minds beg to know.

MM,
I think your tense is wrong. Instead of future
progressive it should be past progressive---
"Most aquaculturist 'have' gotten rid of them."

By most standards, they, YB, equate to an undesirable FW species.....but for what I have in mind they are the perfect "niche fit"

I do appreciate your input. Due recognition
will be given to the resolute soul that
is first to put live YB at my doorstep.

Surely someone can provide me with what everybody
else in the industry considers a weed fish.
It's not as if I wanted a dozen snail darters.
(Although I'm beginning to think these are easier
to come by

BB

Bob,

I have found out from a state biologist friend that a local lake is loaded with them and they are surveying another lake on September 16th that also has yellow bullheads. He wanted to know if this was for research as in a university as they sometimes can supply fish for those purposes. However this is northern Indiana and he doesn't know you are in Washington state. Obviously you want these fish alive too right?

Bullhead Bob - What size do you want? Will young of year (YOY) or 1 yr olds be okay? Bcody

Cecil,
Sounds semi-promising. Will send you info
requested via personal E-mail.
Thanks a million.
Bob

Hey Buffalo Bill,
Don't tease me. I'll take whatever size you have!

Can you tell for sure, on the youngest ones, that
they have white/clear central chin barbels?
Definitely don't want to pay you for sending
brown bullhead out this way.....already have those.

Whichever size/age will have the best chances
of making the trip out this way are the ones
I want.

Can you really get me some?

PS By any chance are you related to my pony
express rider idol Buffalo Bill? Bill Cody
is not that common a name.

Morning Bullhead,

I'm sure Bill Cody will answer the call but I'll pass this along. My copy of a NYS fish hatchery list shows a fella in western NY that sells "bullhead". I'll try to contact him today to see if he has what you are looking for. Other than the "white/clear central barbel" description, do you have the scientific name? If you can provide this, there should be no mix up.

Russ

The picture doesn't show the scientific name very well. "Ictalurus natalis" is what my book says.

John

Buffalo Bill,
Don't tease me. You really have some YB?
Any size that you can get is good by me.

If you feel one size would ship better than
another, go with the least risky.

Can you speciate the very young? I don't want
to buy brown bullhead by some confusion on type
of fish.

PS You related to my legendary idol, Bill
Cody the Pony Express rider?

BB

Greetings Russ and John,
I think I'm making a mess of your otherwise
well organized Bulletin board. Things thought
sent don't appear, while other things appear
magically several times over.

My apologies to the entire fish school...Just
send me back with the fingerlings.

Thank you both for trying to get me closer
to the elusive YB quarry. Cecil was right. You guys on the PB really do rally to the cause. Had no idea that there would be so many coming out of their underwater haunts to help. It's a credit to
the aquaculture society.

The genus species (YB) is Ictalurus natalis
(I believe it is Latin for a "Big Behind"...
your web site rules don't allow a literal translation...smile)

Hey if it happens that two sources are found
simultaneously, I'll purchase from both; so
don't anyone that's pursuing YB give up chase!
Go after those bottom dwellers with gusto;

I have to go check my "crawdad" trapline...

Bullhead Bob

Bullhead,

I called two places today and struck out both times. No yellow bullheads were found, only brown. Sorry Bob.

Russ

Russ,
Don't give up with just two casts. I've been
fishing for 6 months now and still haven't netted a single YB.

Things were heating up at this site, and I began thinking there might be a chance Pond Boss would come through. But it doesn't look like it now.

I'm amazed that with all the talent evident at this site, along with the many contacts that these experts have in the aquaculture/fisheries
industry, that nobody can put me in contact
with a YB source.

I am really stymied.

BB

Bullhead Bob,

I would go with Bill Cody. He knows his stuff and is reliable. The biologist I contacted said he can't help you since you are a private institution.

I would think the bullhead would be easier to ship than most species as they are quite hardy. I've left bullheads out of the water for some time and had them revive.

Good luck,

Cecil

Bullhead Bob,

Yes, there are a lot of friendly folks on here. Maybe it's because there are a lot of southerners here who tend to be friendlier than some northerners. Or it could be that most folks on here are not actually in the aquaculture business and therefore not worried about competition.

It really burns me on the Aquaculture site that a lot of academics are monitoring the site but won't contribute. It's getting better but about a year ago there wouldn't be any activity more weeks on end. AES has a site but I stopped checking it as there is NO activity to speak of.

Bullhead Bob,

I really for the life of me don't understand this craving you've got for yellow cats. Why not go for channel cats? I would think they are commercially available in your area.

Also why all the re-posting of everyone’s reply.

gw

Gordon,
I am new at this bulletin board and didn't
take the time to study it before utilizing it. As a consequence, I inadvertently and negligently
made a number of mistakes, one of which you
pointed out. Hopefully, I'm not repeating past mistakes with this communuque!

I would certainly understand if ya'll reduced me
to fingerling status. My attempts to swim with
the big fish have never been very successful.

As for my infatuation with YB... Suffice to say,
the water conditions do not support Channels. YB
are "Tough as nails" according to a number of
aquaculturists. There are a host of other reasons, but it seems counterproductive to list
them here and make my quest all the harder (every
one will be wanting them then).

I know all the virtues of CC (good dress out
percentage, fast growth, readily available,
large size, etc), but if the water conditions
don't support them, there's no point considering
them...
PS This far north, if I had the right
water quality, I would be using Donaldson rainbow
trout and not Channels anyway.

PPS Somebody out there is still probably thinking,
why not Brown Bullhead (which are readily available, and indeed, I have some).... BB
has been shown to do poorly in cage and tank
culture systems when intensively grown. YB
excel under the same conditions.

Once again, I would be truly, thoroughly thankful
to anyone getting some YB out this way. You
may not like this underperforming pint size
cat, but it is the ideal niche for my study
project.

Sincerely,
Bullhead Bob

Bullhead Bob....and Editor McDonald. How is a guy supposed to contact B.Bob you when you and MANY OTHERS don't complete all the Member LogIn items when you register to become a PBoss Forum member????. Mark, I make a motion that you cannot become a PBoss member unless you fill in all the SignUP or registration questions/categories. The registration process should not continue or proceed until all the basic biographical slots are filled in.

BACK TO BULLHEAD BOB. If you want to talk about yellow bullhead, get it together and email me.

Bill Cody,
Geez Bill, two replies were sent to you after your
inquiry about what age/size YB I was interested in. Never heard back from you.

I filled out all the required personal data
fields in order to log on to this posting
site. The optional fields I left open, as
my wife does not care to open our files
to a host of unknown people. And if you want to
keep harmony in the home, it pays to go along with
those little wife pleasers.

It is just like someone that has an unlisted telephone number, when you think about it.

I certainly value and need your help and will respond with an E-mail.

Bullhead Bob

B.Bob - You've got email coming your way about YB. I do other things with my time besides sit here waiting for responces to my comments. Lots of demands for my time. I don't lay all my laundry out on this forum. Your request for YB may not sit well with WA State Dept of Natural Resources. BC

Bill Cody,
I checked with them (DNR), and they think you deserve a spotted owl, two marbled murrelets, and a fledging bald eagle, not to mention a mile of riparian zone along a salmon bearing stream named after you for all the work you do. I agreed with them and they will be getting in touch. I did mention to them that you had "all" of your contact info listed at Pond Boss web site.

In the mean time, thanks for the nice E-mail,
well placed jabs, and no-nonsense business
attitude. You are a good man, and a great
aquaculture resource!

Bullhead Bob

Bullhead Bob - Thanks for the sugar coating with the DNR. The yellow bullheads are predators; they ate some of the blackstripe topminnows that I had in the live box with them. They also like fish pellets; mostly at night.

I checked the websites for WA DNR and Dept of Fish and Wildlife. Could not find anything pertinent regarding import of fish. Their emphasis seems with enforcement of resources within the state. I will wait and see what the DNR has to say in their email to me about import restrictions. If they get some assurance from you that these fish are not going to be released into the environment they may not create too many restrictions. They may ask for or would like to have on file documentation of a 'head count' before and after the study and a final disposition of fish, including any notes of mortalities. All you may need is an approval permit from your local wildlife officer.

PS Last winter I analyzed diatoms (algae) for a city out your way, Bellevue near Seattle. They are conducting some stream surveys in their area. It looks like they will do an extension of the study this year. Some interesting benthic stream algae out there.

Mr. Bill Lunker Cody,
Bullheads are scavengers....they just don't necessarily wait for their food to die, as was the case with those minnows!

Oh, I think you'll find the state agency that's even more cooperative than the DNR in Washington is the State F&W. These boys are just stumbling over one another in their effort to help you.

Man, as soon as they hear I want to raise a few
YB in a couple livestock troughs they'll be wanting to stop by and help me. Why we'll be
on a first name basis in no time.

And after the ensuing snowball fight in purgatory,
and the approval is granted, those 3 inch YB will
have reached eating size. Fish fry tonight!

Pleasant dreams Bill,

BB

Can't help but comment on whether it is legal to bring these fish into Washington. Since they are an "undesirable species" the wildlife department may not want them there. No telling what they might do to the native ecologic balance-think of Europeans importing carp to the United States.
Am surprised no one has mentioned this so far in this thread.

Layton Runkle

I agree that the applicable agency might refuse the request to bring in the Yellow Bullheads, but Yellow Bullheads, although not native to the Northwest, are already present in both Oregon and Washington, and Brown Bullheads are very common, so I do not think there is much ecological risk and the Fish & Game folks might be amenable to letting them in.

Concerned Forum Members: I tend to agree that there are too many exotics crowding the native species. My understanding is the Yellow bullheads are only for inside recirculating aquaculture; not open pond culture. Private research; no resale.

Jnapier,

Bullseye. You are exactly right.

Bullhead were introduced in 1905 into Columbia
River Basin. They are present in Willamette
river system, sloughs off both Willamette
and Columbia Rivers, Sauvie Island and number
of lakes....Mud, Post Office, Horseshoe, Fairview
etc.

Listed as a game fish there is no possesion
or size limit (Question, if it is so undesirable
why must one buy a fish license to go after it?)

82% of the fishing done in Washington is
after introduced species (1994 WDFW survey)
plus 100% of warm water species in Washington
are introduced.

It is hard to imagine that a department millions
of dollars in the red (last year) would concern
itself with a research project conducted
in closed tanks on a few dozen bullhead.

Especially when there are so many spotted owls
to survey.

Bullhead Bob

BB-

I have followed your correspondence and you have obviously given this a lot of thought and it sounds like you will be responsible and take the necessary precautions with your project.

Living in the Pacific Northwest myself and prefering warmwater fishing, I share many of your frustrations regarding the State Fish & Game Departments. I also understand that they have a lot to deal with, including endangered species listings, "bait bucket" stockings, etc. So I imagine their job is very difficult and that they are very frustrated with the problem of people illegally stocking fish (such as LMB and Crappie in Crane Prairie and Davis Lakes). I just hope they take a fair look at your request. Good luck.

jnapier.

You are too kind....not to me but to the WDFW!

Their rules and regulations are the problem.
So many of the rules have the opposite effects
of their intended objective. For example, why wouldn't a spotted owl be just as welcome on
somebody's forest land as a red breasted
robin----until it is listed as an endangered
species. Now it is the proverbial shoot, shovel
and shut up. Having a pair of SO on your property
is a tremendous liability. Heck, they should
be giving the landown an incentive not a financial
burden for having them on their property.

When regulations were coming down the pike to
limit timber cutting along waterways (widening
the riparian zones) it created a log it or
lose it mentality....Miles of timber along
waterways were logged before the laws went into
effect less a landowner was left forfeiting
tens of thousands of dollars of lost timber.
The constitution is suppose to protect the
taking of property from US citizens, but
here in the Pacific NW they have found a
way around the constitution and have regulated
away one's timberland value and rights.

Those that play by the rules, which I have, suffer the most. Many feel that it is easier
to receive forgiveness (if they get caught), than
to get bureauocratic permission for a sylviculture practice. And in most cases that's
true.

The worst managed forestland is a heck of a lot
better watershed, than the best laid out shopping
mall. More and more land owners are giving up
the fight and just selling out their timberland
for developments. It's a shame that govenmental
foresters don't own forestland and understand
human philosophy. They would be so far ahead
of the learning curve if they did.

BB

PS I sincerely appreciate your words of support.