Pond Boss Forums INTRO Questions & Observations Calling Bill Cody regarding feed training bluegills

Bill,

I definitely am going to try your approach on putting one sex only bluegill in a small pond and feed training them to produce faster growing larger bluegills (not hybrids) next year. My bluegill right now are doing great, but I can't help thinking they would grow even faster under controlled conditions on pellet feed. As you indicated my largemouths that are feed trained and feeding daily are intimidating the bluegills off the artifical feed.

However, do you think it will be necessary to isolate the bluegills in a cage temporarily after culling from their native pond? The pond I will place them in is only 1/10 acre (88 by 59 feet), but I want to make sure they really key in on the feed twice a day and don't digress to natural limited feed.

It would be easy to put the cage in the small pond, and once they appear to be successfully taking the feed to flip the cage over and remove it.

How long do you retain the 8 inch male bluegills in the cage before you release?

I'm looking forward to this as not only will it prove interesting, but it will be fun harvesting the bluegills for the smaller pond. If it proves out it will be a way to produce large bluegills for sale under controlled conditions.

By the way, I hope to add a picture of one of the female 8 to 12 inch yellow perch (averaged probably 9 inches) I bought from Freshwater Farms this spring to my website this weekend. They're doing fine and some are now up to 13 inches. I also caught and released a largemouth and smallmouth and plan on adding their pics to the website http://www.ligtel.com/~jjbaird/bairdfish2.htm

Thanks,

Cecil

Cecil -
1. Perch pictures: It would be great to have pictues of a before stocking and after one summer of intense feeding. We normally do not see 2"-3" growth in one yr after they reach 12", but it does happen. Commonly they go from 12" to 12.5 or 13" in one year. It will be good to document your growth. If you get 1" a yr after 13" in 2 more yrs WOW 15". We'll see?
I have a reported huge perch about 55 mile from me that grew to a 17" size from a large fingerling in five yrs. As I figure it, it's 6", 12", 14", 16", 17" = 5 yrs. They said they measured it. I never saw it myself and no picture. Fish Story?

2. Male Bgills: My males gills have been in the big pond for their third summer. They were added midsummer 2000 @ 6-7.5". Caught one last winter 9". They look 9.5-10" now. Without bass in the pond and only perch as pellet feeding competitors, the bgill are noticably dominate and are always first in line for the feed. I put bgill in with the perch primarily to lead the perch to feed, which they do a good job of. Perch are always close behind the bgill and both seem to hang close together even during winter.

3. I put the gill in a cage to make sure they are eating pellets and that they are males. This way you can even use somewhat smaller fish and keep them in a cage until you are sure of the sex. I'm not turning anything loose that I'm not positive is a male. I had a doubt about several in the first batch and put them in cages with other fish in another pond. I transfer them as I come across them. This is their third summer in a cage with some hyb stripers. Currently, I've got 64 more males split into two cages. Put them in cages in late May, early June. They are still in cages, eating real good and will probably turn them loose late Sept. I may hold some of the smallest ones & any doubtfull males in a cage over winter and feed until early next summer(spawn season).

4. There is a definate pecking order with them in the cage. Dominants are on top when I feed, so much on top that 1/4" - 1/2" of their backs stick out of the water while waiting for feed. I'm wondering if some of the nondominats are getting enough feed while stacked in the cage. I try to add plenty of feed when feeding but not to over do it. I tend to under feed rather than overfeed. They do not burn nearly as much energy confined to a cage as compared to free ranging in the pond.

5. Cecil, when I take the fish out of the cage I lift/hang the cage so about 12" to 18" of it is still in the water and I use a long handled net to dip them out. This allows for sorting and measuring. If I run across any skinny ones, they will go back into a cage to fatten them up and insure they're eating pellets. My cages are about a big as a 55 gallon drum, about 40" tall & 30" - 36" dia. (using 48" high plastic netting). Smaller cages are easier for me to handle and use since I don't raise lots at one time.

6. Length of time in the cage. One month would be adequate. I think they are getting plenty of food in the cage and growth is close to optimun so I leave them in the cage longer. My bgill & perch in the big pond at the house will only eat pellets once a day at evening whereas the bgill are fed twice a day in the cage.

7. I'm waiting on some fingerling 2-4" walleye to try and get them on feed. May not get them this yr., but next Jun-Jul. Depends on the hatchery (North Star); says he has them; but might not get around to geting them up in time before they are too big for what I want. Heat was a problem this summer.
Bob at Ridgeview says I can come over and hook and line some of his 3-4" YOY perch out for a cage. I supplied him with about 15 gal of perch eggs this spring. I'm trying to see if a hook/worm caught perch goes onto feed easier than a regular perch. I know it's true for LMB.

Bill,

As usual, thanks for the excellent information.

I updated my web page today and added a pic of a 12 inch yellow perch out of one of the ponds (if you haven't see the page since I updated), and a largemouth and a smallmouth out of the pond. I also added some taxidermy pics. I hope to get some more perch from Freshwater Farms of Ohio next year and I'll take before and after photos then.

What a difference -- they don't look like the same fish.

Thanks again and I'll keep you posted when I start raising the gills.

Cecil

Bill,

Like Cecil, I've got a small 75'x85' excavated pond that I'd like to use to raise just bluegill. The intent is to have a place for the neighbors kids to fish, along with providing a meal every now and then. From all the pond source material I've read, the same theme about bgill and the potential for overpopulation, in small ponds, keeps coming up. This approach about single sexed bgill sounds like an alternative that could be used to achieve my goal for this puddle.

Some questions that come to mind are (1) Can you order single sexed bgill?? (2) How many fish would you consider to stock in a small pond like mine? (3) Can you recommend any sources that would have information on this type of approach or is this a learn as you go? (4) What is the mesh size of the netting you use on your cages? (5) With a good 3-4 months before ice over, would you consider starting a project like this now or holster the guns and wait till next spring?

Russ

Bill:
Could you send me the mailing address for those two hatcheries you mentioned, North Star and Ridgeview?

I'd like to mail them a copy of the magazine.

Mark McDonald
Editor, Pond Boss

Mark - Check your email for the addresses & some relative comments. Bill

Russ - I'll try to provide some answers; lots of ????
1. Cannot buy single sex bgill that I know of from any hatchery.

2. Number to stock will depend on pond volume, depth, aeration, etc. The more crowded they become the greater the chance for problems from all sorts of stresses. Safely, no more than 50to 80 at one time in the small pond of your size; 140 will push the equivalent limit of 1000 per acre. For either density, that's a lot of male bgill in a pond your size. I think it's best not to over stock, keep real healthy fish and harvest 25-30 out each year and replace with new males; develop a producion cycle.
I think 50 fish of 5"-6" bgill is pushing my limit in one cage as big as a barrel (17-18cuft); but no problem for 140 fish in a 4x4x4 cage. Currently I have 35 6" to 7.5" bgill in a cage as big as a 55 gal barrel. You may need two cages. I do not crowd fish in a cage as a production operation recommends; too many problems. Sometimes you need to crowd fish to higher densities to keep then from fighting; not so with bgill. I'd rather not have problems.

3. Recommended source for how to information? Nothing published that I know of about these specific techniques. This info, in detail, will be in my pond management book which is forthcomming in several yrs. I'm the only person that I know of who is doing this, single sex bgill thing, but it can be easily done if you know a few of the basics. No real mystery or magic if you know a few fish basics.

4. Cage mesh size has to be just small enough to keep the smallest fish enclosed. The bigger the cage mesh the better water circulation through the cage and healthier the fish while enclosed. I like 3/4" mesh, 1" mesh would also work good. I get my cage netting mail-order that can be ordered by the quantity needed from: InterNet Inc. 7300 49th Ave. North, Minneapolis MN 55428. 1-800-328-8456. [URL=http://www.internetplastic.com]www.internetplastic.com . I've always gotten good & fast service from this place.

5. You could start the project this fall but it would be easier to recognize male bgill in the spring. Fish need a good fat layer to overwinter 4 months under the ice. They may not be able to develop enough fat yet this fall, depending when you get started. No growth during ice cover; just fat consumption, plus you run the risk of losing your first catch/batch. Might as well start in April when the water gets 55-60 deg. & gill are feeding good and starting to get enhanced sexual dimorphic characters. Collect cage materials and build your cage this fall; get your ducks in order. I like cage floats made from kids foam swimming noodles or 2 liter soda bottles. Both hold up well in UV light exposure. Locate some reliable sources of relatively healthy wild bgill. I catch mine (worm&bobber) from farm ponds. Best bgill come from ponds where the fish are fed pellets. They are already half-feed trained. Fish in my opinion have to be a minimum of 5"-6" so I can recognize sex with a high degree of accuracy. Email me if you want more details. Bcody