Pond Boss Forums STOCKING A NEW POND Creating the food chain LMB and bluegill

Is bluegill the only good source of food for largemouth bass?

Is redear an acceptable substitute for the bluegill as a food source for Largemouth bass?

Any other pros and cons of using one or the other?

Rachael, it matters only in what part of the country you are in.

Here's part of the deal. Bluegills spawn multiple times per season. Redears only once.

Bottom line? Where are you?

Between the two, bluegill and redears, bluegill will be your choice. Bluegill are more prolific breeders than redears and for this reason alone you would want to choose them over redears for your forage fish for LMB.

Depending upon your location and water variables (temperature, depth, structure, and cover) other suitable forage for LMB include perch, trout, freshwater prawns, and shiners.

Hi Rachael; Welcome to posting on Pondboss forum. I am no expert on raising LMB, but what I glean from reading the forum is that BG hold several advantages over other forage fish in most ponds. They are an especially valuable partner in bass ponds (LMB, not SMB) because their reproductive potential is high. In optimum conditions, they can successfully spawn all summer long, each spawning contributing thousands of fry that can become bass food. The majority of the other sunfish, at least, are not inclined to rear young throughout the warm months in nearly the numbers as the BG do.
I would like to have RES in my pond for snail control and as just another pretty fish to catch but I can't seem to source them here in Colorado.
The BG introduced only for the first time to my pond just last year were able to pull off a spawn this summer. It remains to be seen just how successful they will become. My pond's water is cool-it comes in as irrigation water from a Colorado trout stream. I've been advised by the DNR fish biologist that BG are not common in our lakes here because the summertime window of warm water for their spawning is too small for multiple spawns. BG reportedly do well in some local ponds as the shallow nature of the local ponds allows them to warm more quickly than the larger public lakes.
If you were to describe your pond(s), give the location, and state some goals, I'm sure you can get lots of ideas from the Pondboss family about the relative merits of all sorts of bass forage. After all, LMB will usually try to eat anything that they think will (maybe) fit in their mouths. The one time largest bass (16") in my pond killed itself trying to gag down an 11" YP. Bad bad bad.
An answer to your question "is red ear and acceptable substitute for bluegill?" would of course be, "It depends." You'd have to keep LMB numbers in you BOW lower if they were relying on RES for their growth than if they had lots and lots of BG to eat.

Racheal, you may also wish to look at crawfish as a food source, especially papershell crawfish -- they are less inclined to burrow into your dam. If you have some rocks where the crawfish can hide and breed, they can be significant forage for the LMB.

Threadfin shad may be suitable as well, depending on your pond & climate. And, of course, tilapia will control algae while feeding bass. Tilapia aren't legal for stocking everywhere, though, so you'd need to check on this.

One last comment: No matter what forage fish you have, remember that they need to be fed. The more you feed them, the better they do. The better they do, the better the LMB do!

To put one pound of weight on one largemouth bass, it needs to eat 10 pounds of fish. In a pond setting, BG are the only fish that have enough fecundity to support a LMB predator based pond.

If your goals is to raise large RES, then you don't need BG in the pond. BUT, if your goal is to grow larger LMB, then BG it is.

You may get away with buying feed trained LMB and using a good fish food for their primary food source too, along with RES in the pond. Gish farms grow LMB to a couple of pounds for the restaurant market solely on fish food. But, I don't know of anyone that has a RES/LMB pond where their goal is to grow larger LMB. Down South, the LMB will feed longer into the winter, and start feeding earlier than up here.

Largemouth will stay small (8"-11") in a pond with only RES as forage. Things to counter act this are. Reduce bass numbers to 8-16/acre. Use pellet trained bass but this only works well until new bass from spawns are present and do not eat pellets. Usually what happens in a LMB-RES pond is bass stay small, overcrowded, and eventually the RES die out when original stockers die of old age.

Bill, in my pond I have feed trained LMB. I tagged the original feed trained ones, and have a standing rule to remove all non-tagged LMB. But, I am seeing a limited number of LMB eating pellets that are not tagged, so at least some will learn to eat on their own by watching others. I think that it would be a good experiment for someone if they did the same thing - remove all non-feed trained bass a year after the first spawn, and continue to remove all non-feed trained LMB from the pond. I think a LMB/RES pond might work that way.

I also think that within a few years we might have feed trained RES too.....

You know as Bob Lusk always says in every video he does about LMB and pan fish he will always tell you that BG are the backbone for food for the LMB to grow and thrive!!

I have yet to ever hear him say, well you might could use RES, or maybe perch golden shiners.... It's always BG as a primary all other fish can be a secondary food source but BG are the primary food source! Unless of course your bass are feed trained...

RC

Here are 2 examples of bass in my pond before BG and after BG.

In 2010 before BG, 12 inch bass, then pic of me this last spring 18 inch bass 3.5 pounds. Plus keep in mind I under stocked my BG when I stocked them. So I may be a bit behind but you can see how it has changed things big time with my LMB!

There are a number of forage options for a LMB pond. I have even seen LMB only ponds. It depends on your goals , how much management you want to do , where the pond is located , and what forage fish (or other sources like craws etc. and or feed)are allowed and will survive/function.