Pond Boss Forums INTRO Questions & Observations The myth of the superior hybrid bluegill growth

Like stated above the pics of Sparks HBG and pics of some Bruce had caught was my inspiration for stocking. I'm just under 1 year right now on the release of my 2" HBG. I'm have not yet fished for them any besides the pics I took in spring for update. I have fed them AM 1 feeding a day all summer. I hope to get a chance to update that thread to see where I'm at today before GTG this weekend. I go in for 8 hours today and vacation starts Just for reference what size hook should I use for least chance of mortality using a piece of worm? I lost one in spring using long shank.

Are there any reports of HBG when stock with HSB?

Yes that (HSB , FH and HBG) is one of the suggested put and take plans by some of the state agencies and private fisheries guys. It can work well with feeding.

Jwwann, my preferred hook is a #8, but I will move up or down one size depending on conditions. Having that larger gape means you can get by with a larger hook when the fish are cooperative and not overly conditioned, which it sounds like yours are not.

I would probably start with a #6 and see how willing the fish are, provided that size is appropriate for your bait of choice. I also mash down the barb.

If you're worried about deep hooksets, try a simple, plain jighead with bait rather than a hook. The horizontal presentation might cost you a hookset on a long cast now and then, but the chances of deep sticking a fish are greatly reduced.

Patrick, my feeding routine has remained basically the same from day one. I feed AQ500 once a day, by hand...in the evening. My usual procedure is to feed the HBG pond first, walking the entire perimeter while doing so. Then I move on to the other ponds, which takes about 10-15 minutes. When I return to the HBG pond, I evaluate how well the fish are/have fed....floating feed on the water w/little activity, I'm done. No feed left, I throw out some more. In my opinion that is the greatest benefit of hand feeding vs. an auto feeder...every day is custom tailored to the fish's wants. And believe me, it can change from day-to-day.

The AQ500 is 41% protein, which may be higher than a BG really needs. But, I can't argue with the results, and I don't feel like experimenting with a program that's working thus far. Many start with the smaller 500, then progress up to 600 when the fish are ready, but I never did. It makes sense to upsize the pellets, from an energy expended/ results gained equation, especially on bigger fish, but again, I don't what to adjust what has worked well for me.

Thanks Spark. After work I'll try and catch a few. I'm excited to see how much growth I got out of the first year. Last check they were 5" in I believe mid spring.

I have been using Li'l Strike by Southern States. It is 38% protein. The feeder on this pond feeds each morning and each evening.

Yesterday I seined a friend's grow-out pond, and brought back a bunch of 1" bluegill fry. I took about a dozen of them to the HBG pond to try as bait. Using a short-shank #4 bait hook, I caught HBG from about 5-8 inches with each cast -- except for the last cast. I got about a 12 inch CC.

A high protein diet is a factor in mortality? That's a new one to me. Can you elaborate?

From what I have learned from a fish diet researcher the carbs in the diet are the negative and are responsible for the build up in fatty tissue.

Cecil I apologize for not being very clear...I should've said "the effects of an artificial, or pelleted diet", rather than picking on one particular component of that diet....either protein or carbohydrates.

I tend to use the term "high protein diet" as shorthand for implying that my HBG subsist primarily on packaged feed, rather than natural forage. It is my belief that this procedure, while undoubtedly boosting the fish tremendously growth wise, may have negative consequences where longevity is concerned. I have not read any studies where HBG were subjected to testing in this manner, and have no proof....it's just an observational thought process.

No worries. I feel the same way. I too get good growth and large size on my fish but I know they don't live as long their wild counterparts in the local lakes.

It was the first anniversary of stocking my pond Saturday, so we celebrated by fishing it for the very first time. A cold front and an obvious insect hatch meant slow action, but we did catch a few. Most first stocking HBG averaged 6.5-7 inches and their girth was very impressive. What I am assuming were this spring's stocks averaged 5.5 w/good girth as well. I caught nothing under 5. I'm very satisfied w/that. Not surprisingly, I caught no RES but have seen some that are much larger than any HBG. I began hand feeding mid morning and evening w/Am500 at the end of May. Since September, they only get fed every other evening. I have no predators yet but an unholy amount of FHM. I was rather surprised by the HBG's spawning habits. I didn't expect much, but they occupied their beds the entire summer. While I saw RES paired up, I never saw any HBG pairs. I did have several yoy though from something. Over the past year, I have only found 2 dead fish (both RES)in otherwise excellent condition. I assume predation as they were pretty far up the bank and one had its tail chewed off.

What are you planning on introducing to control recruitment of the HBG?

BG and most predator fish (excluding HSB)can't/don't metabolize carbs. Its the excess/type of protein and lipids as they interact with unused carbs that cause health and diet problems. That along with incorrect micro nutrients missing from a pellet diet (found in a natural diet).

Warmwater omnivorous fish have a greater potential to utilize dietary carbohydrate as an energy source to spare protein, than do coldwater and carnivorous species which utilize dietary carbohydrate poorly or not at all.

Sparkplug, I'm adding 50-60 WE this December and an undecided amount of HSB the following year. I imagine the WE will fatten up pretty quickly on the FMH. I'll add probably no more than 20-25 HSB. For my own amusement I'm also adding half a dozen albino cats and 20 smallmouth. WE reportedly can do well here while SMB struggle. I figure this will be the only opportunity to experiment with them while the forage is so great.

Aother update sprkplug and others with HBG experience?

bWilson - since it has been a couple years we're not sure if you are still following this thread but with all your planned predators to add, expect your forage fish numbers to be quickly decimated. Be prepared for that occurring. An update on your fishery and forage fish numbers ould be interesting.

Nearly seven years since our HBG program had it's shaky beginnings. I feel that I've managed to learn a thing or two, but for every question answered two more take its place. Not sure I'm gaining any ground.

What I can say with reasonable certainty:

After these 6+ years there is no sign of the dreaded GSF infestation. We haven't stocked any additional HBG in two years, so smaller specimens should be readily apparent when caught. We just aren't seeing any. I'm positive reproduction is occurring, as I regularly see schools of Lepomid fry in the shallows. I even managed to trap a dozen or so, for a grow out experiment I'm working on. And while I'm sure that a limited amount must be recruiting, that number is apparently very small.

The same has held true with our LMB used as a control measure. They also are reproducing, but recruitment is virtually non-existent. I think the combination of hungry mouths and no weed structure is allowing for very heavy predation to occur. We're pleased with the results thus far.

The pond record still stands at 1-10 for the HBG. I've come close this summer, but no dice. The size most commonly caught is between a pound, and a pound and a quarter, with fish up to a pound and a half fairly common. Getting over that 1.5 hump is proving to be quite the hurdle however. Looking forward to switching feed next year, and hopefully bumping those numbers a tad. We plan to stock additional HBG in the spring, and possibly introduce them along with YP into another pond here on the property as well.

It would be interesting to see if Northern Bluegills, grown under the same conditions would surpass the HBG size in the same amount of time.

I agree Scott. My question is, would it really be under the same conditions? All else being equal, wouldn't the northern BG tend to recruit in greater numbers than the HBG, since they would not benefit from the severe male bias that the hybrids enjoy? If predators could be stocked in numbers such that recruitment would be controlled in the same fashion, how many more would it take? And would the increase in biomass possibly skew the results, and/or lead to water quality issues?

Tony,

The male only non-hybrid bluegills in my .62 acre pond average about 1 lb. 4 too. Lake record IIRR is less than yours at 1 lb. 8 1/2 ounces.

Here's a link to some that were harvested this spring and put up for sale. Tried to just copy and paste the pertinent data but my mobile Ipad didn't want to cooperate.

http://www.taxidermy.net/forum/index.php/topic,385600.0.html

Thanks for that update Tony.

When you stock more HBG will you stock advanced sizes? Buy fingerlings and grow them some in a grow out pond before introduction? Or just stock enough fingerlings to account for losses to predators?

That seems like one challenge to laddered stocking. Keeping the new fish introduced from being eaten.

Ah, that be the conundrum, snrub. Should I choose stockers large enough to avoid predation, or small enough to allow me to capitalize on the early growth period? I am convinced that if I am to bump these fish over that 1.5 mark with any consistency, I need to get them under my control as soon as possible.

Which environment has the potential to foster better growth: Thousands of fish lumped together in a production environment hatchery grow-out pond, fed who knows what, or a hundred or so individuals lovingly pampered and catered too?

Fortunately, there's a solution in the form of cages. I will purchase smaller fish, cage them and grow them out over the summer until early fall. By then they will be large enough to avoid being eaten when released, and fully acclimated to my choice of feed.

Cecil thanks for the link. That's awesome!!

Just curious, but what would a competition quality 2lb bluegill fetch? Seems like there would be a huge jump from that 1.5 lber!

Makes perfect sense!

Sparkplug, what do your cages look like? I am sure it is on here someplace...

Sean

Sean, the main cage design is round, 4' diameter x 4' below the waterline. Approx 8" above the waterline. I will look for a photo.