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I am in North central Texas. Average high now is mid 90s.

My understanding is that copper nose blue gill breed all summer long, but mainly spring and fall. Is this correct? Does water getting too warm prevent breeding?

I am trying to figure out why a recent sampling with a minnow trap had no bluegill in it (only tilapia). Am I expecting too much in too short a time (two months)? Probably...

If the CNBG start breeding this year, will I still need to restock tilapia next year? Pond was stocked with 100ish BG, 8ish hybrid spriped bass, 4lbs of tilapia, and a few red ear. Pond is about an eighth acre, but has lost a lot of depth (4 ft?) since the drought breaking rain we had in May.

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In north central Texas, coppernose bluegill will spawn 4-5 times, typically. First spawns of the new year are often during those blue bird days in February or early March. There will be another spawn in
April and another in May. Then, we'll see another, usually in September when the water temperatures begin to drop a little bit, then another in October or early November, when temperatures are again prime. I don't think each female spawns four or five times, but I do think each individual is capable of spawning twice, maybe three times yearly in that part of the state. Oh, and bluegill start spawning when they are 2.5-3" long.

Tilapia will die when the water temps drop to 52. As the temperatures begin to fall, your tilapia will become sluggish. As that happens, many of the smaller ones will be eaten by your game fish.


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So since I put 3"+ CNBG in during June, I should not expect a spawn until Sept....

OK, that explains why I saw no BG in my sampling. I had seen some black fry awhile back and hoped they were BG....guess they were tilapia.

I understand the tilapia will die as it gets cooler and am lining up friends with small kids to come fish some out this fall. They were recommended to me because I did not have a forage base in the pond, and stocked all fish at once (at least that was my understanding). This is why I am asking if I will need to restock them next year. In short, once my BG start spawning will they be needed next year?

Couple reasons I ask...one is that they eat a lot of pellets when I feed, that I would rather the BG eat. Second is, I am thinking about setting something up in my shop if I need them next year,...and get some tilapia fingerlings out of the pond this fall and grow them in the shop and put them back in the pond next spring....if I need them. Probably more trouble then they will be worth....but a thought.

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bobark. me and others have tried minnow traps in ponds with limited success. in my old pond i used to leave mine in for days at a time and barely have any. my friend has an antique glass jar trap that works real good in ponds. i am not sure why wire baskets don't work as well in ponds as they do in running water.

from my past experience with tilapia, the few fry that i saw were really light colored. the dark colored fry may have been bg. my bg were stocked in february and had some good spawns in april and may, i noticed them spawning again for the last 2 weeks in 2 different places in my pond.i am in east central alabama, we probably have similiar weather.


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Originally Posted By: Bob Lusk
In north central Texas, coppernose bluegill will spawn 4-5 times, typically. First spawns of the new year are often during those blue bird days in February or early March. There will be another spawn in
April and another in May. Then, we'll see another, usually in September when the water temperatures begin to drop a little bit, then another in October or early November, when temperatures are again prime. I don't think each female spawns four or five times, but I do think each individual is capable of spawning twice, maybe three times yearly in that part of the state. Oh, and bluegill start spawning when they are 2.5-3" long.

Tilapia will die when the water temps drop to 52. As the temperatures begin to fall, your tilapia will become sluggish. As that happens, many of the smaller ones will be eaten by your game fish.


Hey Bob, good to see your post, especially on a subject that may be very relevant to my situation in the near future!

I do have a question, though. What about RES? Assuming proper water & weather conditions for CNBG spawn in late October, would that also hold for RES? I seem to recall that they spawn before other BG, and not as prolifically, hence the query.


7ac 2015 CNBG RES FHM 2016 TP FLMB 2017 NLMB GSH L 2018 TP & 70 HSB PK 2019 TP RBT 2020 TFS TP 25 HSB 250 F1,L,RBT -206 2021 TFS TP GSH L,-312 2022 GSH TP CR TFS RBT -234, 2023 BG TP TFS NLMB, -160




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There is a lot here on BG (CNBG ) and RES spawning.

Spawning is temp and photoperiod dependent and the right physical conditions (maturity and condition) need to be reached. In a empty pond BG and RES will spawn ASAP if they are mature and in decent condition (often only a couple weeks) if the conditions are there.

From Rolling Spawn thread


http://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=127839&page=1





Dave Willis

OK, I'm going to post quite a bit. Sorry about that. I may get moderated??

Here is a summary from our work in the two states:

Spawning periodicity, hatching duration, and peak larval densities were described for bluegill in five lakes of the northern Great Plains in Nebraska and South Dakota, USA from 2004 to 2007. Hatching generally began in early June and duration ranged from 28 to 77 days, indicating protracted spawning. Peak larval density was highly variable among lakes and years and was primarily unimodal, with peaks occurring from late June to July. Peak larval density ranged from 2 to 1,760 larvae/ 100m3. Multimodal peaks in abundance occurred in four instances. Although multiple peaks in larval abundance within years were noted at southern latitudes, there were also many instances of a single peak. Larval density and spawning duration were generally lower than other reported studies of bluegill from southern latitudes although geographic location alone did not consistently explain these patterns.

Now, only crazies should continue past this point. Following is the discussion, where we relate our work to other published literature. Sorry for the technical writing, but I suspect some of you will appreciate this.

Bluegills are typically assumed to be synchronous, colonial spawners that exhibit a protracted spawning season, although a small percentage (4.5 – 7.0%) will nest solitarily (Gross & MacMillan 1981; Neff et al. 2004). Our results generally indicated a single peak of larval abundance in most years and lakes, with a few exceptions. Although there are many examples of multiple peaks in larval bluegill abundance or direct observations of multiple spawning bouts, examples of years with a single peak in larval density are also plentiful at many geographic locations (Table 2). The frequency of sampling in our study (i.e. 7-10 d) is likely adequate to identify potential multiple peaks in abundance. Gross & MacMillan (1981) reported adult male bluegill guarding their brood for 7 d, although elevated turbidity precluded direct observation of bluegill spawning or nesting activity in our study. The use of a 1,000-μm mesh trawl is likely effective at capturing newly hatched bluegill (Isermann et al. 2002). Beard (1982) reported a range of four to eleven spawning bouts in three Wisconsin lakes. Dominey (1981) reported that bluegill breeding synchrony was greater within colonies than among colonies. He noted that even neighboring colonies may cycle out of phase. Consequently, the ability to detect distinct spawning events may be limited as a result of potential asynchronous colony spawning events. In addition, daily age estimates have a margin of error of approximately 7 d. This may lead to a loss of resolution on specific hatching days. Notwithstanding, we contend that potential multiple peaks in hatching would be visible with our sampling method, as is supported by our data in most instances.

Larval abundances in our study impoundments were relatively low when compared to those reported in other studies (Table 2). Thus, a plausible hypothesis is that a longer spawning season at lower latitudes may lead to increased larval densities. Beard (1982) reported that longer spawning seasons (mediated by appropriate water temperatures) resulted in a greater number of individual spawning periods in Wisconsin. We found several instances of larval densities from lower latitudes up to 20-fold higher than our observations but most observations were within two to three times of our estimates (Table 2). In addition, several studies at higher latitudes reported lower densities than we encountered. Generally, bluegill populations at lower latitudes may have the potential to reach relatively high larval densities in some years but may also exhibit lower densities comparable to our study. A suite of factors may interact in complex ways, leading to variable larval densities and subsequent recruitment. As a result, direct comparisons to previous research are challenging. Interacting factors may include abiotic factors such as physical habitat, temperature, and weather (Beard 1982; Pope et al. 1996; Jackson & Noble 2000; Casselman et al. 2002), and biotic factors such as food availability and competition (Partridge & DeVries 1999; Rettig & Mittelbach 2002), predation (Houde 1987; Gray et al. 1998; Santucci & Wahl 2003) and lake productivity (Latta & Merna 1977).
The larval duration (as a surrogate of spawning season) in our study ranged from one to two months. In general, latitude and larval duration were negatively correlated (r = -0.81; Table 2). The expected, extended spawning season was observed in Crane Lake, Indiana, where larval bluegills were collected from early June to early September (Werner 1969). Beard (1982) reported bluegill spawning durations from 31 d to 112 d in three Wisconsin lakes. Chvala (2000), who evaluated the reproductive biology of bluegill in two Nebraska Sandhill lakes, found that while larvae were initially collected in both lakes during June, the spawning season was relatively extended in one lake compared with the other. Newly hatched (i.e., 4–6 mm) larvae were collected at Cozad Lake between June 5 and July 24, while newly hatched larvae were only collected from Pelican Lake between June 25 and July 9. Egg-diameter distributions from bluegill ovaries in both lakes had multiple modes, indicating multiple-spawning (i.e., fractional spawning) capabilities. We did not observe the expected inverse relation between latitude and frequency of bluegill spawning bouts. While three or more spawning bouts were common in more southerly waters, we also found evidence of three spawning bouts in one South Dakota study impoundment. However, even at this more northerly latitude, the influence of latitude could not actually be discerned as we found substantial inter-annual variation in the number of spawning bouts within a water body. Thus, geographic location alone certainly does not explain the frequency of bluegill spawning and this topic certainly warrants further investigation.


Here is more if the links can be fixed.


Try these threads for BG spawn discussions.

http://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=61260&page=1 - BG - BG rolling spawn 2005


http://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=23217&page=1 - BG

http://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Main=2220&Number=24095#Post24095 BG spawn

http://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=22552&fpart=1 spawn time fun - BG /RES

http://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=23217&fpart=1 BG spawn and stunting N-S

http://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Main=2220&Number=24095#Post24095 what time is it - spawning 2007

http://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=22552&fpart=1 spawn time fun 2006

http://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=22531&fpart=1 rolling spawn 2 2006







Last edited by ewest; 09/02/15 09:24 AM.















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Or in other words, "it depends".


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Boburk, my CNBG are nesting as we speak.


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Originally Posted By: FireIsHot
Boburk, my CNBG are nesting as we speak.


What is your daily high right now?

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Thanks, Ewest! I was surprised to read about multiple spawns up north, thought that was purely a southern thing.

Probably I should just go ahead with FHM, RES and CNBG stocking in late September/early October if water & weather allow. Maybe they will spawn, maybe not, but no reason not to try.


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Anthropic, not sure this will help you make a decision on stocking time, but my first of two stockings was made in late November with approximately one acre of water 3' deep' or a little less than 1/3rd of the pond size. I fertilized using one dehydrated bale of alfalfa, I separated the bale into 1/4 slices. A bale of dehydrated alfalfa is a very small amount of material. Stocked fhm's, cnbg and res. The second stocking was 2 full pool in late Feb. I have no idea of the spawning with the cnbg or res. I did a minnow trap sample in June and found several 1" cnbg in the trap. Lmb fingerlings stocked in June and now I do not see any 1 or 2" fish of cnbg, res, tilapia and most all of the fhm's are gone. look's like the lmb have put a hurt on any thing in the 1 to 2" size fishes. That tells me my lmb are most likely in the 6 to 8" or bigger in size. And Todd @ Overton's Fishery tells me of the CBLMB growing rates in this short time period and would fit the reduction in the smaller size forage fish missing in the pond. So, this also clouds my ability to figure out the spawning of the cnbg and res in the pond.

Tracy


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TGW1 keep a close eye on your forage base. LMB can get out of control quickly.
















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Guys thanks for all the great info. And what age will CNBG first breed?

Edit: Now i noticed you say "2.5-3 inches" is their maturity size but how? All sources say it takes at least 2 years for them to breed. But they will get 3 inches in 8 months perhaps. Right?

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Fatih, I haven't seen any of those sources. If they are fed, and it is the warm weather growing season, they should grow 3 inches in 3 months. It will be different up North or in other colder climes. But once the water warms up, they start eating and growing.

In my area a fed bluegill, in a fertile pond, might easily get 7 inches in 8 months.


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So Dave, they might mature in 3 months? smile

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I'm of the opinion that maturity where a BG is concerned has a lot to do with the BOW itself, regarding any already established population of bluegills. If there are 7-8" bluegills already present, the smaller fish may delay maturity until they grow to a size that will allow them to compete within the existing hierarchy. If there are no other bluegills present, then a 3" specimen may mature much earlier.

Nature's way of establishing/continuing a population.


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If we accept that: MBG(+)FGSF(=)HBG(F1)
And we surmise that: BG(>)HBG(F1) while GSF(<)HBG(F1)
Would it hold true that: HBG(F1)(+)AM500(x)q.d.(=)1.5lbGRWT?
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Originally Posted By: ewest
TGW1 keep a close eye on your forage base. LMB can get out of control quickly.

ewest, Thank you for your remarks here, I am always thankful of your knowledge u share here. I am watching and monitor what I can based @ the 3 TH Feeders. It has been this past week that I noticed the substantial reduction in the FHM's and I when I watch the cnbg is see mostly is 3 to 5" @ the feeder. Same with the Tilapia. I used to see quite a few tilapia fingerlings but now I see mostly 3" to 10" in size. I am thinking it is time to run another sampling using the minnow traps. smile My plans are to reduce lmb numbers this Jan and Feb by removing any males and or poor females through some serious fishing. I am thinking I will get another hatch of CNBG before the cooler fall temps. And more tilapia also. I hope.

Tracy


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Varying tilapia stocking #/amount can be a useful tool as can adding adult CNBG. Feeding is a big plus and LMB harvest at some point is also wise.

Learn how to do a seine survey - very easy and a 30 ft seine (30 X 4 with 1/4 inch mesh) is inexpensive.

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Originally Posted By: TGW1
Anthropic, not sure this will help you make a decision on stocking time, but my first of two stockings was made in late November with approximately one acre of water 3' deep' or a little less than 1/3rd of the pond size. I fertilized using one dehydrated bale of alfalfa, I separated the bale into 1/4 slices. A bale of dehydrated alfalfa is a very small amount of material. Stocked fhm's, cnbg and res. The second stocking was 2 full pool in late Feb. I have no idea of the spawning with the cnbg or res. I did a minnow trap sample in June and found several 1" cnbg in the trap. Lmb fingerlings stocked in June and now I do not see any 1 or 2" fish of cnbg, res, tilapia and most all of the fhm's are gone. look's like the lmb have put a hurt on any thing in the 1 to 2" size fishes. That tells me my lmb are most likely in the 6 to 8" or bigger in size. And Todd @ Overton's Fishery tells me of the CBLMB growing rates in this short time period and would fit the reduction in the smaller size forage fish missing in the pond. So, this also clouds my ability to figure out the spawning of the cnbg and res in the pond.

Tracy



Thanks, Tracy. I have water varying from 1 foot deep to over 6 feet, still murky but not as muddy as when it began filling 6 weeks ago. I'm a bit concerned about DO in hot conditions, though, as well as pH levels (pine area drainage but we limed pond bottom).


7ac 2015 CNBG RES FHM 2016 TP FLMB 2017 NLMB GSH L 2018 TP & 70 HSB PK 2019 TP RBT 2020 TFS TP 25 HSB 250 F1,L,RBT -206 2021 TFS TP GSH L,-312 2022 GSH TP CR TFS RBT -234, 2023 BG TP TFS NLMB, -160




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ewest, someone edited your links above but did not get them edited correctly. Now when you click on them they just take you to the main forum list page.

I edited my instructions in the post below your post with all the links explaining what is still wrong. The way they are now, you can't even click on them then correct them in the url line. So the links are useless.

All the links need is to take the "http://" out and one of the "forums/" out and they will work. They should look like the url in the url line while reading this post. ie "forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.php". No "http://" and "forums" comes before pondboss.com, not after it.

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Originally Posted By: snrub
ewest, someone edited your links above but did not get them edited correctly. Now when you click on them they just take you to the main forum list page.

I edited my instructions in the post below your post with all the links explaining what is still wrong. The way they are now, you can't even click on them then correct them in the url line. So the links are useless.

All the links need is to take the "http://" out and one of the "forums/" out and they will work. They should look like the url in the url line while reading this post. ie "forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.php". No "http://" and "forums" comes before pondboss.com, not after it.
remake them in your post above so they work... ;-)

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Fatih, A month or so ago I trapped about 20 BG from my forage pond and added them to another small pond for mosquito control. None were over 2.5 inches long. 2 months later I am seeing fry.


It's not about the fish. It's about the pond. Take care of the pond and the fish will be fine. PB subscriber since before it was in color.

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Originally Posted By: Boburk
Originally Posted By: snrub
ewest, someone edited your links above but did not get them edited correctly. Now when you click on them they just take you to the main forum list page.

I edited my instructions in the post below your post with all the links explaining what is still wrong. The way they are now, you can't even click on them then correct them in the url line. So the links are useless.

All the links need is to take the "http://" out and one of the "forums/" out and they will work. They should look like the url in the url line while reading this post. ie "forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.php". No "http://" and "forums" comes before pondboss.com, not after it.
remake them in your post above so the work... ;-)


Why didn't I think of that?

Hopefully if enough people learn to modify the links as they fail, more will be able to use the old links when they come across them. Having only a Samsung Tab to do writing and editing while on the road makes some simple things more complex to accomplish.

Last edited by snrub; 09/01/15 04:02 PM.

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Thanks for fixing the links ewest!

Last edited by snrub; 09/02/15 03:48 PM.

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I fixed them. Thanks for the help.

The "http://" has to stay in and the second "forums/" comes out and they work.
















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