Pond Boss Forums INTRO Questions & Observations Who will own our ponds if the EPA gets its way?

The exchange has been very positive. Some would like their ideas to carry the day by poo pooing basic foundational principals that had(has) made America the most prosperous and beneficial nation in the history of this planet. It is civil for sugar coated clichés to be confronted by reason.

After learning about the EPA, yes, they are illegitimate constitutionally and cause almost as many problems as they solve presently. What a shame it would be to say, "all well, there has to be change." Let's step up to our civic responsibilities, and bring on positive change, such as state govt.s being responsible to the concerns expressed here. Chickens are fluffy, (and fun to discuss for a break) but I'm primarily interested in info enabling me to make intelligent decisions as a civic minded pond owner.

I plan to inoculate my new pond with 10,000 gal of creek water. Ethically, either the water comes from the creek, or I catch the 10,000 gal from runoff preventing it from entering the creek, plus it's legal, for now. Will I be able to do so with another property in the future?

The local public 120 acre fishing lake is closed this year for renovation. All catches are to be reported. When it reopens, will it be legal for me to remove a half dozen RES to plant in my pond if the EPA gets charge?

Not so sure the U.S. is the most prosperous nor most beneficial in the world anymore. We're only number one in size of military spending and incarcerations. Everything else we are no longer number one.

As far as beneficial we need to stay out of country's we don't belong in and concentrate our efforts here.

Oh wait we are the world's number one oil producer now.

Uh oh there goes the neighborhood again!

When this thread gets shut down and deleted, don't pretend that we were not given every chance to get back to ponds.

How is your pond doing RAH? Did you get the smallies going yet?

Thank you for asking. I added an additional 100 fingerling YP this spring after seeing unfertilized eggs. I may not add the SMB until I see small YP. I am also hoping that this will allow the dozen LCS to grow a bit. I now have a lot of submerged plants and want to see if the curly leaf pondweed will provide winter cover when the summer weeds die down. I may add a very small number of small SMB next year, but may wait another year. I want to get the forage way ahead of the SMB so I can grow trophies. In the mean time, I am planning another pond.

Sosauty, this thread, and most all the discussion, had everything to do with ponds. I've said this before, I make guns. The atf and this president has done everything they can to make it very hard for me to make a living at the only profession specifically protected under the Bill of Rights. Now the epa wants in your ponds. Don't think they want in your pond? I don't remember many, if any, instances where our government has wanted to get smaller.

When the feds get into your ponds, you will sing the same tune as the fish suppliers sing and many of them feel government at the federal and State level make life miserable. How many private fish hatchery's we down to in Michigan now? Gee, wonder why? Two simple examples below that I hear complaints on from time to time.
-Harassed by police under the federal motor carrier act. Actually legal under the US Constitution but congress needs to make the laws, they cannot be "delegated" to unelected officials.
-Handicapped by migratory bird laws. Sounds great, pass an Amendment.

Some of you want the epa to actually be involved in your private waters. Some of your concerns are actually valid and do require some amount of regulation. The problem isn't that those in this camp have bad ideas on regulation, it's that the regulation is ILLEGAL under the US Constitution. Pass an Amendment to the Constitution and then regulate away. You won't have the votes though now will you. When you don't have the votes, you simply circumvent.

Our founders knew damn well that government likes to grow. Article 1 Section 8 is there for a reason and this is that reason. Where did the epa start from and what has it gotten to now? It started out as a noble cause to get us clean air and clean water, something everybody wants, right? Well we got this noble cause with an illegal formation of a federal agency. We are now at the point where the epa wants to regulate your pond, ditches that hold water for particular amounts of time... it will NOT end. There will be a time when the water from your well tap is metered. We already have laws on how much water a toilet can use.

I could go on but let's get back to chickens. For Pete's sake we don't want to have a spirited discussion and point out law breakers, crooks, and mental midgets of the federal government.

You need some chickens around those ponds, RAH. Cute, fluffy chickens. By an odd coincidence, I know where you might secure a few.

I am again reminding everyone to please keep this civil and non-political. It is a very important subject for those of us who are, or who plan to be, private water managers on our properties.

This is not a left/right, Republican/Democrat issue. It is a controversial and strong bipartisan issue that affects our whole nation. There are multiple senators, on both sides of the issue, who are working very hard behind the scenes with each other to try and smooth out this issue.

Our state has two very good US senators. One is a Republican, US Senator Shelly Moore Capito. The other is US Democrat senator, Joe Mansion. Both are working on resolving this issue, and want these restrictions to stay local within the state.

I know that US Senators Frankin and Klobuchar of Minnesota (Land of 10,000 Lakes) are working hard on overturning or modifying this issue because Minnesota has some of the strongest state government private/public water laws in the nation. They want them to stay local.

I believe these new guidelines will be implemented as of next week, but it will take quite some time for them to have serious effects. As we've said on Pond Boss for several years, please contact your US representatives and your US senators with your concerns.

Griping about them here, without action on your part with your elected representatives, only pits us against each other on a subject we all pretty much agree upon. It also gives us moderators ulcers when you start attacking each other, our government employees, and sometime us moderators.

Ken

We need a border collie first to guard them. Tired of feeding the mink, coyotes, fox, weasels, owls, hawks, and raccoon (not sure what political party they are). We plan on trying the ancona breed next time. We have the pen area cleared and ready to build, but they will likely fly out and wander once they are able. We are in the middle of a large property, so they will not bother anyone else. Without a dog, they will be toast.

Yeah I'm pretty surprised that these down here have lasted this long.

Boys, ya need a Foghorn Leghorn.

RAH, what is the status of your LCS? If my memory is correct you stocked them last fall. Do you see them, have they reproduced, and do you know the current size?

I put in an email with my senators, Sessions and Shelby. They are good strong principled men, but may be in the minority. The EPA appears to have backed away from this power grab. Yet likely the agency will learn from this foray, wait for the controversy to go away, then attempt some expedient no ethics power grab again. It's a good time to prepare ourselves by understanding just how the agency could affect our pond management. Glad the neighborly chicken problem was resolved without resorting to fried rooster recipes. They're good for bug management.

I want to learn more on this issue, this is as a good of a forum for the discussion as it gets. Every so often, someone will deliver a real nugget of information or delivers a point of view about the EPA that's astounding.

Both the Cayuga River up north and the Houston shipping canal used to catch fire years ago. Did a Fed agency bring about their cleanup or did the states, can't say TX is known to be environmentally progressive, do it on their own? Lots to learn.

I think that I stocked them this spring, but have not seen them since release, but the pond is 1 acre and I have not seen much but FHM. The submerged plants are thick near the edges, so I am not surprised. I figure that I'll stock a few SMB no later than 2017. I may also stock a small number of GC if the weeds do not subside with the goal of reduction rather than elimination. I am planning to slowly raise the water level a few inches a year once the marginal plants get thick, with the total increase being 12 inches over 3 years. I did this on my last pond once the bald cypress got going and I liked the result. I use inlet boxes from AgriDrain to do this. So far, it has worked out well.

Raising your pond level over 3 years to allow the establishment of vegetation, what an outstanding idea!

Given a better vantage point, man has always been able to glimpse something evil on the distant horizon. I'm just not sure I need to climb to the top of the mountain to try and justify my need to sound the alarm.

As I've stated in other fairly recent threads on this subject, I do believe the EPA would love to take control of my water. I just feel the time for them to be able to do so, hasn't arrived. And I doubt it will take place anytime soon. Be prepared, yes. Be paranoid over it, no.


Note: The chickens have entrenched themselves into daily life around our home. Still wonder where they're roosting at night, though.

Makes sense to me.

Another pond!?

Kind of like FA. It is just short green fuzzy stuff on the bottom. No unsightly floating globs on the surface yet. So why worry about it?

I see where you're going snrub, but to my way of thinking a more accurate comparison would be the transition from short, green fuzzy stuff on the bottom, to full blown bank-to-bank surface coverage and fish dying.

There's a fair distance in between those two scenarios - time enough to implement control measures, or possibly even to allow the natural cycle to prevail: cold water periods that will probably curtail the FA used in this example. Or political climate change and/or aggressive counter legislation to prevent another.

Being a long-time officer of the West Virginia Aquaculture Association this is a subject I've followed nearly since its inception. It is something that all landowners and pond owners should educate themselves about.

When I mentioned writing to your US Senators, I failed to mention why just write to the Senators. I made the incorrect assumption that people have been following this closely. The House of Representatives already passed a bill restricting the changes to the clean water act. It is now up to the Senate to come up with their version and take it to committee with the House.

Additionally, I know of at least six major lawsuits currently filed against the EPA regarding the changes to the CWA. One of them is by the State of West Virginia.

Lastly, there have been a number EPA actions that have been adjudicated by the US Supreme Court since 2001. In every single instance, the EPA has lost the battle.

It will go into affect this week, but it has already been very badly wounded. I believe it will be challenged at nearly every turn by local governments, state governments and big corporations with deep pockets. I agree with Sparky's "Be prepared, yes. Be paranoid over it, no."

Again, I request that everyone please keep this civil. Educate yourself from legitimate sources of information.

Ken

Sparky, I always enjoy your post here and I have learned from your post here. But I think we might very well be at different sides of the table on some things. I enjoy a good debate every once in a while And I am not happy with some of the things with our gubberment as I am sure you feel the same. But I don't care to take the wait and see road here. And you being from Freedom Ind.

Tracy

I know, Tracy. And that's okay. That's why tables have different sides in the first place. It would get pretty crowded with everyone on the same side, eating whatever was set before us, all in unison.

I'm okay with sitting by myself, and asking to see a menu.

Well said sprkplug

Tony missed his calling as a diplomat! That or he has teenagers and has developed some skills to deal with them! And no I'm not calling anyone a teenager here.