Got these guys on the trail camera before I left. Not too bad. Buddy went up and got the SD cards last week and snail mailed them to me. Should be here tomorrow. Said there was thousands of pics. Can't wait to see what we got!!
Last edited by wbuffetjr; 08/14/1705:40 AM.
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We dont have elk, but we have a great overabundance of white-tails and black bear. My cameras have recently been showing lots of fawns, moms, and 4-6 point white-tails. The bucks arecin prime velvet right now.
I butcher and prepare a lot of antlerless white tail that I give to the indigent elderly in our area. I can skin, quarter, butcher and grind the remainder, plus vacuum seal one in about six hours.
A critter the size of one of those elks would spoil before I got it skinned and quartered. Like Dave D, I'm getting more senior every day, and have become half-fast at doing these things.
You pretty much got to have a partner Elk hunting or at least I do. If you are by yourself, you better either be ready to settle for a cow or have some friends that will come help if you get a big bull. It is pretty cold up where we are in September so you do have some more time to work. It will be 15-20 degrees in the mornings. You do still have to get them opened up and cooling off asap. Just the overall mass of the animal makes the cooling process much longer than a deer, but as long as you get them open, quartered up and hang the quarters in the shade you have quite a bit of time.
You guys just need to find some young bucks to hunt with!! A colorado Elk hunt on public land can be done pretty cheap and it's a hell of a good time!!
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It's not the price but my age and the steepness of those durn hills. I've stopped kidding myself.
But when i see the pics I start thinking of one more hunt. Then I get back to the real world.
Dave, Dito here also. I made an Elk hunt about 3 yr ago with my grandson in NM. We climbed hills (mts) every day for a week doing a blk powder hunt. Climb to the top and they would be at the bottom. Hunt the bottom and they would be at the top. There is a reason the big Bulls are Big, It's because they are smart too.
Tracy
PS, I'm to old for that carp any more, I'm smarter too.
Do not judge me by the politicians in my City, State or Federal Government.
Trail cams are a crap shoot. With the exception of Reconyx($$$$) I have been disappointed with most of them. I think that the Cuddebaks are a little more dependable than most. The Moultrie A5 is junk.
I recently bought 2 Browning Dark Ops. They have no night time flash. The daytime pics are great. However, I did a walk test at night. From 15 ft I didn't recognize myself.
It's not about the fish. It's about the pond. Take care of the pond and the fish will be fine. PB subscriber since before it was in color.
Without a sense of urgency, Nothing ever gets done.
Boy, if I say "sic em", you'd better look for something to bite. Sam Shelley Rancher and Farmer Muleshoe Texas 1892-1985 RIP
Some good reading for you JKB here at this link. I too would love to mount one but get lost in the research of all the models. I have option for direct power rather than batteries but I hear batteries last a long time. I'm within range of wifi so would be interested in a wifi capable model as well. Theft would be less of a concern for me.
It's not the price but my age and the steepness of those durn hills. I've stopped kidding myself.
But when i see the pics I start thinking of one more hunt. Then I get back to the real world.
Dave, Dito here also. I made an Elk hunt about 3 yr ago with my grandson in NM. We climbed hills (mts) every day for a week doing a blk powder hunt. Climb to the top and they would be at the bottom. Hunt the bottom and they would be at the top. There is a reason the big Bulls are Big, It's because they are smart too.
Tracy
PS, I'm to old for that carp any more, I'm smarter too.
I hear ya for sure fellas! We walk out the door at 10,000' so it's no joke. It does keep me motivated to stay in shape tho. Tracy I have not wisen'd up yet cause we still chase them all over the mountain! haha
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Tracy, I have a trespasser/poacher/thief that shows up on my place. I don't live there. So far only 1 TC has been taken. I would be scared to put out a Reconyx.
I found out 1 thing about batteries. Ray-O-Vac advertised that they were as good as Duracell. So I figured to just buy Duracell. The package says that they are good for or at least last for 10 years. I buy them in the 48 pack. I had some around that I had bought about a year before and put them in some cams. After sitting that year, they lasted about 2 weeks when I used them in my cams.
It's not about the fish. It's about the pond. Take care of the pond and the fish will be fine. PB subscriber since before it was in color.
Without a sense of urgency, Nothing ever gets done.
Boy, if I say "sic em", you'd better look for something to bite. Sam Shelley Rancher and Farmer Muleshoe Texas 1892-1985 RIP
I need to get a cam. What would be a decent one? I plan on mounting it on/in my shed out back, so it don't have to look like a tree.
JKB I'd agree 100% with these guys on Reconyx being the best. I have had mine get chewed on by bears so not totally comfortable leaving a camera like that up there yet. I will say I have been thouroghly impressed with these coverts in every aspect. My hunting partner has 10 of them on a few hundred acres in Iowa. He had one crap out on him after 1.5 years, sent it back to them and they sent him a brand new one!!! Can't beat that in my book! Lithium batteries last a loooooong time in them.
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They'll have a hard time chewing up the camera that way.
I've found that trigger time is VERY important. Less than 1/2 second is best, and also if the camera is "asleep", how long it takes to "wake op" and take a picture is important too.
I have a Cuddieback Capture that the nighttime picture taking portion of it died. I called them and they said since it's out of warranty, send it back with $100 and they'll fix it.
Like other companies, they had their good years and bad years. My next one will be a Reconyx.
I had a Stealth Cam go bad under warranty. Sent it back, the replacement didn't work, sent that one back, the next one didn't work either. They sent me a newer model and I have never put it out. The thing that aggravated me was that every time I sent it back, I was put at the end of the list, so every camera took over a month to get back.
They'll have a hard time chewing up the camera that way.
Yeah bear boxes are on the list....... my never ending, ever growing list! Lol
I got 4 of the coverts. If I recall, 3 of them equaled one reconyx!! Couldn't justify that for my first year of cameras up there. I wanted to try to cover some ground.
Last edited by wbuffetjr; 08/27/1511:37 AM.
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I've gone through about 7 moultries and cheap models (<$60 each) and they never seam to last more than one season and some not that long. I now have a couple of bushnells (one was $150 and the other $100 at Sams). The trigger times are more like 1 second so I see a few blank pics but for the price I'm happy with both in terms of the quality of the pics and the fact that I've had them over 2 years each and both are still working.
I stopped at a few places the other day to see what they had in stock. All they had were the ones all you guy's mentioned not to get. I'll see what the guy's at the shop install for security cameras. That might be a better option for me.
Here is another fairly reliable cam forum and reviews - don't believe they sell at all. It will give you the specifics of actual tests with pictures http://www.chasingame.com
Tracy, I have a trespasser/poacher/thief that shows up on my place. I don't live there. So far only 1 TC has been taken. I would be scared to put out a Reconyx.
I found out 1 thing about batteries. Ray-O-Vac advertised that they were as good as Duracell. So I figured to just buy Duracell. The package says that they are good for or at least last for 10 years. I buy them in the 48 pack. I had some around that I had bought about a year before and put them in some cams. After sitting that year, they lasted about 2 weeks when I used them in my cams.
DD1, Had the same thing happen to me last year on both accounts. I had 2 cameras disappear last hunting season, so I pulled the 3rd one. Sucks when people trespass on your property and steal your stuff....I think my thieves are local...I'm too remote back there for anything else. I need to put out an old empty camera case and put a stealth camera on the empty camera...then, leave 'em a little note inside. And, I concur with you on the Ray-O-Vac junk...the 6 volt batteries will discharge sitting behind the seat of my pick up....even with caps on them. I go Dura-cell only....
RAH, ...that's what I'm going to have to do. I hate the idea of having to climb every time that I have to pull and view a video card...but, if that's what I gotta do then......so be it. I gotta move the climber this coming weekend anyway...it'll be a good time to set it out.
Interestingly, I have never shot the big buck that I was after from TC pictures near where the pictures were taken, but my sample size so far is only nine. I use a number of ladder stands that I rarely move. I am, however, planning to move three of the stands pretty soon based on educated guesses and to cover more of my land. Hunting from a slightly different spot is always interesting.
I keep 9 or 10 cameras @ my place and I try to stay out of the areas I am interested in hunting. I am also in the process of moving 1 stand and may get it done today. I don't really want to go into the area but better now than later. Placement of this stand will be based on a heavy trail I just found when prepping for a new forage pond. I was walking a drain toward the new forage pond. A camera will be place close by to see if it might be where I set the first day Good luck RAH, I am thinking u r also a bow hunter?
Tracy
Last edited by TGW1; 09/01/1512:15 PM. Reason: additions
Do not judge me by the politicians in my City, State or Federal Government.
RAH, I agree except I think we need a gun season for control of the herd. I only hunt with a bow and MZL and get more satisfaction from 1 bow kill than tree or four with the muzz.
Do nature a favor, spay/neuter your pets and any weird friends or relatives.
After bowhunting a gun just seems like cheating....... especially if you are Esshup!!!
Unfortunately we cannot use most centerfire rifle caliber guns here in Indiana for deer hunting. The brass has to be no longer than 1.8" (brass only - no projectile) and the bullet has to be at least .357" diameter.
I use my Savage Muzzleloader in .45 caliber for the gun hunting season here.
I tired of deer hunting with a riffle yr's ago. Until I did a blk powder elk hunt a few yrs back. I like blk powder hunting, Thompson pro hunter is an easy deal. But I would really like to stumble across the savage u speak of. And I messed my shoulder up a couple weeks ago and had injection in the shoulder about 10 days ago, it has worked the past couple of yr's but seams slow helping this time. And it may stop any bow hunting till it gets better. I love bow hunting, truly what hunting is all about for me.
Tracy
Last edited by TGW1; 09/02/1507:11 AM. Reason: sp
Do not judge me by the politicians in my City, State or Federal Government.
Not elk but they'll work for me. I'm hoping one of my daughters gets a shot at one of these this year.
I've had two Moultrie M880's out for 3 years now without any problems. Batteries last about 6 to 7 months depending on how many pictures. They take pretty good night pics.
It's true hard work never killed anybody, but I figure, why take the chance? Ronald Reagan _______________ The good Brian
Buffet I am not sure how you stay away from that place!! That place looks awesome man!! I would figure out a way to live up there as soon as I could! Talk about a get away!
RC
The only difference between a rut and a Grave is the depth. So get up get out of that rut and get moving!! Time to work!!
5 seconds away from having a shot at this guy. Prefect conditions. Then my buddy shot a cow with his muzzle loader and big boy took off. Maybe next year.
Last edited by wbuffetjr; 08/14/1705:47 AM.
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Great shot! Is he/she running and then clearing a fence, or just jumping for fun?
I see good pictures with a Covert tag, a Moultrie (880?) and now a Bushnell brand. Makes me want to research what is out there again. I'm looking for a wifi model although I'm close enough to the pond that I could retrieve and swap out memory cards too. Just sorting pictures might be easier if they dump via wifi to a network drive.
Yeh , He/She is jumping that section of downed fence. I have my camera set on 3 shot burst. The first was blurry and the third was it landing and turning. Like everyone else I'm mostly wanting to see big mature bucks but just thought this was an awesome shot.
I have been very pleased with the Bushnell's. Battery life a little over a year. I bought 3 on clearance 4 years ago for $79/ea. with mail in rebate. Still working great. Thanks.
CC , I think they were the Trophy Cam 5Mp. Not positive. I'm sure they've upgraded. I don't believe They accept the adapter but I really never checked. As I said for what I paid for them I've been super pleased.
So, I am thinking a pair of Mt Lyons? I was not to pleased when I found tracks from a Mt lion in one of my wildlife food plots a couple of yrs back. If u continue to have then on camera, it might be time to do a cat hunt. I understand the meat is white and pretty good eating. I bow hunt mostly, but in this situation I would have to pull out the 45/70 saddle gun. Mt lions kill several people every year here in the US, Southern California is where most are attacked from what I have read. Like RAH said, I would not want to walk up on one on a morning elk bow hunt.
Tracy
Do not judge me by the politicians in my City, State or Federal Government.
IMO it is definitely two of them. One looks younger to me for sure. I think it is a mother and a ~1.5 year old cub.
We have an issue with them up there. Virtually every study I have ever read says they will take 50 to 70 deer per year. If that is correct then I am looking at 100 deer gone per year on the low end right there. That is discouraging.
I have had multiple run ins with lions while bow hunting out there. One time I had a huge tom come in and almost jump on my elk decoy.
We have been talking about trying to locate a cat hunter to come in do their thing.
I've also got some bear pics I need to post. Got some HUGE bears.
Last edited by wbuffetjr; 08/21/1608:29 AM.
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I know a guy in Montrose that has Lion dogs............ He's an outfitter too, or I should say his Dad has/had an outfitters license, but that isn't his main job. I know when I was there, one guy in the group had a lion tag, (he's a local sheriff/deputy there) and he ended up taking one after a long chase. The previous day the dogs pushed one off of an elk that it was in the process of trying to kill. The dogs bayed the bloody and wounded Cow Elk instead of staying with the Lion. The dog handler wasn't happy, but I talked to him about it and I think he realized that since that was the first time the dogs had been exposed to something that had fresh blood on it, that is the reason why they stayed and didn't follow the lion.
That year, a female lion was in heat, and there were 7 toms in the area all because of her. One was a HUGE tom, and he was smart. The handler said the same Tom "rocked" his dogs twice (went down a cliff that the dogs couldn't get down).
If you want, I can dig up Jared's number for you or Marks number, who is the sheriff/deputy.
WB, Do you feed at that location or is there some other reason you able to get photos at that (or those) locations? It is just an area of high traffic?
WB, Do you feed at that location or is there some other reason you able to get photos at that (or those) locations? It is just an area of high traffic?
thanks, dan
Most of those pics are off of a trail that is naturally heavily traveled. We have tons of HUGE dead fall. If you make a trail thru it, the animals use it almost immediately.
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In a couple of yrs...If ya shot that thing this yr and gutted it, the bambi I shot fri would fit inside of it. You guys up north are too blessed when it comes to big animals. However it would make me a bit nervous walking to the blind pre dawn after seein the pics of bear and mountain lions. When it comes season, I'll take my chances with stingrays and sharks.
Do nature a favor, spay/neuter your pets and any weird friends or relatives.
5 of us were walking in to hunt. It was still dark and we walked into a bunch of bedded elk. They exploded in all directions and miraculously missed us.
It's not about the fish. It's about the pond. Take care of the pond and the fish will be fine. PB subscriber since before it was in color.
Without a sense of urgency, Nothing ever gets done.
Boy, if I say "sic em", you'd better look for something to bite. Sam Shelley Rancher and Farmer Muleshoe Texas 1892-1985 RIP
You know a bear is big when their head looks small.
You are correct on the Mt. Lion deer kill numbers, and they will also kill elk. When I was out there, one lion that the dogs were running was in the process of trying to kill a cow elk when the dogs caught up to it. The lion ran away, and because the dogs weren't used to blood, they stayed with the elk (which was still alive) and kept it at bay until Shane got there. He was upset that the dogs didn't stay after the lion, but after I talked to him a while I think he realized that the blood scent was more powerful than the lion scent, so they stayed.
Mark got his lion the next day - it was that female in heat. Jerad and I cut a fresh track lion track while elk hunting and we bailed off the mountain to get his lion dogs from his house. It was a female track that we cut, and the dogs finally treed the lion. Mark was on the opposite side of the canyon, and the dogs had the lion bayed in a huge pine. The terrain was so steep that Mark couldn't get over there. Jerad was tying up the last dog when the lion took a swipe at him and bailed out of the tree. Mark made a great shot from across the canyon and got the lion.
I wear an XL glove and that is my hand under it's paw, and this is a small lion....
The people in the area were having a problem with the local lion biologist, saying that ALL the lions in the area were collared and tracked, and there weren't that many lions in the area. (yeah right) When they took that lion in to be checked they gave the biologist an earful, and it just so happens that his bosses boss was there too, and he got an earful too. Well, he biologist was out in the area the next day trying to collar more lions. Turns out the biologists girlfriend was one of the biologists from Ca. that was part of the "put the lions on the endangered list" movement in Ca...............
He has started some trapping himself. Be interesting to see what he gets. Believe it or not all leg holds, snares, etc are illegal out there. Go figure.
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He has started some trapping himself. Be interesting to see what he gets. Believe it or not all leg holds, snares, etc are illegal out there. Go figure.
I believe it. Too many people from Ca. moved to Colorado.....
I think I told you about the Mt. Lion Biologist there at Montrose dating the lady that was influential in getting Mt. Lions in Ca. on the "specially protected species" list there, and she is working on him to push that for Colorado too. I hope the sheep/cattle men there have enough clout to prevent that from happening.
I don't know if the camera would have picked up the deer in the background if the turkeys weren't there. I think I counted around 20 deer that walked past the camera in the 4 pictures that I have.
Nice ones, the second pic I would say is a 3.5 yr old maybe going on 4, hard to say for sure from a frontal pic. Based on where his neck meets his brisket. And the first pic, I would guess 4.5 yr old, maybe a little older. Like fine wine, they will get better with age
Do not judge me by the politicians in my City, State or Federal Government.
They are young deer, maybe even 2.5 year-old's, but surely not 4.5 year-old's IMO. I have been building good genetics through harsh management. Look at the small bases. I am a lucky guy. Lots of habitat and doe hunting are paying off.
You know your deer better than I do, nice ones for sure and I did not mean to offend. Guessing age from few pics is not so easy. I agree they lack mass. But they should get there if food water and cover is around and if your neighbors are not hunters or shooters of anything that walks. We also work on habitat for deer at our place and we are lucky to have a 9,000 acre National wildlife Refuge across the road from us, where the deer have been managed by the TP&Wildlife since 1943. In 1943 and again in 1961 the TP&W brought the deer in from Northern states, Wisconsin and Michigan and another I can't remember which other state right now, anyway they brought in these deer and managed the herd up to 2008. it's a very interesting story and is available for reading on the web. Like I said we are lucky. Our property is too small to control genetics, but we reap the benefits of the state biologists for the past 70+ years.
Last edited by TGW1; 02/18/1709:04 AM.
Do not judge me by the politicians in my City, State or Federal Government.
Nothing to be offended about. Most folks are proud to have older deer around. I often thought some of my smaller deer were older, but I now have watched quite a few grow over the years. Without a proper aging, we both are guessing though. Folks say my place is too small to influence the herd much, but I think most folks base that on acres rather than the percent of the habitat that resides on those acres. Most (but not all) land around me is in field crops. Some neighbors are on board with trophy hunting, but others call themselves meat hunters. When they intentionally shoot small bucks rather than does to fill their freezers, I call them poor hunters. We have have a lot of does. That said, I continue to shoot some buttons that I thought were does, so I need to keep learning. I do love deer hunting!
Around here we have to many bucks. We have had one buck in the last two years that was rutted out hard. I wonder if they suffer from tuff guy syndrome and they think they are bigger than they are. One this year was so stressed out that he had lost both antlers in December. One looked like it was gone for just a few weeks. The boy thought it was a nice doe and after he took it and we walked up I could not believe my eyes. I have never seen that before. My first thoughts were that he may have been hit by a car. I guess over stressed over populated buck heard this can happen.
This buck when the boy shot him was crawling like a cat. The most crazy thing I had ever seen hunting deer.
If one hunts does, he or she will take buttons by mistake, "it Happens". For me, I know I can not influence genetics at my place, but I can provide food, cover and water. I have no field crops around me, but a lot of native browse. The primary food of deer in Texas. So I plant year round wildlife food plots (about 15 acres total in small 1 to 2 acre plots) to attract and hold deer on the property. Plus I get a real pleasure out of it too. We don't hunt the food plots and we have close to 80 acres we almost never go into for sanctuary. I sat on a hill top awhile back, overlooking a wheat food plot next to the pond. I watched an older 8 pt buck with a wide rack and mass, maybe a 165 class buck, as he feed in the plot. I also watched and counted 59 ducks from several different flights and types land in the pond. Now, I built the pond and I built the food plot and I can say for me, it does not get any better than that. Now to grow some nice fish to catch from the pond is next
Last edited by TGW1; 02/18/1711:49 AM.
Do not judge me by the politicians in my City, State or Federal Government.
Nothing to be offended about. Most folks are proud to have older deer around. I often thought some of my smaller deer were older, but I now have watched quite a few grow over the years. Without a proper aging, we both are guessing though. Folks say my place is too small to influence the herd much, but I think most folks base that on acres rather than the percent of the habitat that resides on those acres. Most (but not all) land around me is in field crops. Some neighbors are on board with trophy hunting, but others call themselves meat hunters. When they intentionally shoot small bucks rather than does to fill their freezers, I call them poor hunters. We have have a lot of does. That said, I continue to shoot some buttons that I thought were does, so I need to keep learning. I do love deer hunting!
Opps! I ment to respond to Dono comments, sorry Rah. Dono those old bucks will crawl and everything else to avoid us. Those old ones are wise and hard to come by. I wish he would have had his antlers for your sons reward
Last edited by TGW1; 02/18/1711:56 AM.
Do not judge me by the politicians in my City, State or Federal Government.
It is not uncommon for bucks to die during and after the rut due to the stress. That selects for the most fit animals and is part of the process that is used to get trophy deer. When 8 pts get over 145" around here, they are real trophies. I have gotten close.
Our goals may not be achievable when it comes to the deer but we try this and hope it works out. Does will push off the fawn bucks from our property, it's what they do. And so if we can hold young bucks that have been pushed from other properties, that is what we attempt to do. If we can make that little buck feel at home, he will make our property his core area and will live there 85% of the year and more as he gets real old. He will have plenty of food and that grows nice bucks. And as he matures into his 4 or 5th yr he becomes a contender or maybe not, "it depends"
Do not judge me by the politicians in my City, State or Federal Government.
We have attempted to make a mosaic of bedding/thicket area so that multiple dominant bucks will hold up in our place. In our area, food is not a limiting factor. The tall grass and evergreen thickets are most effective after leaf drop. We never go in the designated bedding areas. The coyotes have not gotten the memo though:) So far, the herd seems to be improving, but maybe I am better at finding them after all these years. Its all fun!
A lot better than less expensive cameras that soon become paper weights! Simple to operate, easy on batteries, and does exactly what it is supposed to do.
Trail cams are a crap shoot. With the exception of Reconyx($$$$) I have been disappointed with most of them. I think that the Cuddebaks are a little more dependable than most. The Moultrie A5 is junk.
I recently bought 2 Browning Dark Ops. They have no night time flash. The daytime pics are great. However, I did a walk test at night. From 15 ft I didn't recognize myself.
I have two Reconyx cameras and they are top drawer. Another camera I have and have become a huge fan of is the GoCam from Spartan. I have run it three years, the Verizon version and it is excellent, great quality and I love the email pictures.
Tbar, I also liked my Bushnell, I think they have great pic both night and day. But last spring when we had one of those 6 to 8 inch rains, water got inside the camera and ruined it. So far the Reyconx has held up for the 3rd yr and produces excellent daylight pics and night pics are ok but not as good as the Bushnell camera I had. That said, my next camera will be another Reconyx. I run several cameras 24/7 and the battery life on the Reconyx is way above all the other cameras I have used.
Last edited by TGW1; 03/01/1707:44 PM.
Do not judge me by the politicians in my City, State or Federal Government.
Whether they're black or grizzly, they must be pretty fearsome to turn all those trees pale.
"Forget pounds and ounces, I'm figuring displacement!"
If we accept that: MBG(+)FGSF(=)HBG(F1) And we surmise that: BG(>)HBG(F1) while GSF(<)HBG(F1) Would it hold true that: HBG(F1)(+)AM500(x)q.d.(=)1.5lbGRWT? PB answer: It depends.
Here's a good bear pic from two weeks ago to give y'all some perspective. My buddy takes dead livestock from neighbors, puts it out in a field and shoots coyotes off it. This was a full grown quarter horse. Obviously some of it is gone, but still gives you some good perspective. We have some BIG bears around there.
Last edited by wbuffetjr; 08/14/1707:08 AM.
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We are beginning to hear of black bears moving into Indiana. I hope to live long enough to see a bear on my place. I did see a bobcat a few years back, but recovery is slow. It is funny that New Jersey has more bear than Indiana.
Here are some highlights from my backyard lol! I have a Moultrie 888i setup 50' from my back door. we have a thickly wooded back lot with 2 natural springs, tons of browse, hindge cut trees and downfalls, 3 huge thickets that hold rabbits (I have fox visit nightly), and all kinds of other good stuff. I have a salt block year round, put out feed in september, apples and veggies here and there. Our small subdivision is surrounded by almost 2000 acres of untouched Mississippi river bluff forest, 2 ponds, countless springs and creeks and a few ag fields here and there.
This Summer my mother in law saw this guy by our carport on the driveway. She hollered for me and I came running, but was too slow to see him. Got him on camera about 40 yards behind our tool shed. He is a BIG tom! Not scared of anything. He was strolling around while we were running the backhoe and the skid steer.
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Nice! It is definitely fun to watch them grow! Not sure if you are doing any food plots or anything. If you are look into some stuff called Sainfoin. I would make a large bet that there is NOTHING deer like more. You just need to have your PH right.
Last edited by wbuffetjr; 08/23/1703:00 PM.
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Cool thx for the tip I'll check it out. I also really like Imperial Winter Clover that works well for us...
RC
RC we used clover for years and years and I still use it. Over the last two years we have had two acres of Sainfoin planted next to two acres of clover. The two plots are only separated by a dirt "road". The clover may as well not even be there. Some days there will be 20+ deer in the Sainfoin and ZERO in the clover. It is crazy! You can read all kinds of similar reports online, but I wanted to see it with my own eyes.
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I read that it has a sticker type seed head. What do you have on what you have grown? There are a lot of different types of sainfoin. Would not want anymore types of plants that fill your clothes with stickers.
Mine has never produced anything with stickers and I have never heard that about Sainfoin before. It is a comparatively large seed pod which makes it a little more difficult to plant than tiny seeds like clover. It gets really pretty purple flowers. I have a combination of Eski and Rocky Mountain Remont.
The ONLY negative I have personally experienced with Sainfoin is it doesn't establish as fast as other things. The first two years mine looked kind of thin and unimpressive (could have been due to my very short growing season at 10,000' or the difficulties I had planting it). I reseeded it both years and I was almost ready to give up on it. Then I got up there this year and it has exploded and looks fantastic.
I have also sucessfully used 24DB on it and it did fine. I have also used 24DB mixed with a half rate of round up and it did ok. Set it back a little but it didn't die.
I officially love the stuff.
Last edited by wbuffetjr; 08/24/1708:34 PM.
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I am planting cereal rye deer plots in the next couple weeks. Deer love it and seed is cheap. Big deer don't usually show for a couple weeks. Shot a 163" deer for my first ever last year. This is the best on camera so far. May be hard to pass if he walks by.
I am not familiar with the Sainfoin, but I am glad for you. To have something that attracts and or helps to feed is a good thing. I love to watch the food plots from a distance. Right now the deer at my place are feeding on some of the Eagle Brand Soybeans, Iron Clay Peas and Sun hemp along with the native stuff. Late Sept I will add Winter wheat, Ebon Rye and bump up my Clover plots with some light seeding. The deer use the Clover mostly in early spring, when not much else is out there. Before the spring native forbs and such have started up.
WBJ, when I found some Mt Lion tracks on the place a few yrs ago, it was a little spooky walking to the tree stands early morning and late evening because I carried a bow. I am no quick draw, when it comes to a bow, and am not sure I could hit a darn thing, if the big cat was in a stand off with me. Texas laws at that time did not allow one to carry a gun during bow season. Laws have now changed. And KWF, THAT is a Nice One for sure.
Do not judge me by the politicians in my City, State or Federal Government.
Tracy I tried to do a spring food plot with the iron clay peas and they came up . Even planting 4 acres the dear ate them to the ground in 3 days before they could get a foothold. There would be 25 does in the field at a time. How did you manage to get them up?
Look at the 2 pictures. See how the gap between the tips of the main beams has shrunk, even though the pictures are approx. 30 days apart. Antlers sure do grow fast!!
To each his own but I'd rather see him licking a mineral block than stuffed into a sausage casing. Maybe it's an ageing thing, but why end the life an animal of such beauty?
Pat, I have to put all the spring, summer plots behind elec. fencing until it reaches waist high, or like you I will have no plants after they pop up out of the dirt. I usually plant all by April 1st and by June 1st the plants are thick and high when I let down the e fence. That way the food is there for them when the does are nursing and the bucks are growing antlers. And as u know July and August is a time of stress on the deer during those hot summer months, esp during drought years. After years of food plotting and learning, the above mentioned seeds work the best for me at my place for yr round food plots. It's not cheap and it takes some time and effort, but I think it is worth it all for the benefits.
WBJ. I hear ya and Dr Luke, he looks young to me also and again Nice Buck with some nice mass and length
Last edited by TGW1; 08/26/1706:21 AM.
Do not judge me by the politicians in my City, State or Federal Government.
To each his own but I'd rather see him licking a mineral block than stuffed into a sausage casing. Maybe it's an ageing thing, but why end the life an animal of such beauty?
Me too. I have never understood the allure or the wisdom in trophy kills. I don't eat my biggest male bluegills. But I agree, to each his own.
"Forget pounds and ounces, I'm figuring displacement!"
If we accept that: MBG(+)FGSF(=)HBG(F1) And we surmise that: BG(>)HBG(F1) while GSF(<)HBG(F1) Would it hold true that: HBG(F1)(+)AM500(x)q.d.(=)1.5lbGRWT? PB answer: It depends.
Throwing back a trophy buck doesn't work very well. We live in farm country so the big bucks taste just fine here if properly shot. We don't blend our venison. The trick to good venison is to remove all connective tissue leaving just red meat, which is quite tasty and not "gamey" but a lot of work. Mature deer are fine to eat and present a much greater challenge than shooting yearlings or fawns. One can fill the freezer just fine with mature deer once one gets good at hunting. I shot a lot of young deer years ago, but now I enjoy the greater challenge of hunting mature animals. Most hunters could buy meat much cheaper than hunting it, even if they spent the same amount of time working for minimum wage.
Like RAH, hunting the mature buck is a greater challenge. And bow hunting for me, makes it a hunt and not a shooting event. For me, I have let many 3 yr olds walk while bow hunting, its the older ones that are not so easy. They are mostly nocturnal and are real smart until they get sex on their mind. Like man, that will get them into trouble.
Do not judge me by the politicians in my City, State or Federal Government.
I too bow hunt, but a gun is so much easier! I shot my biggest bow buck from 15 feet away (from a stand), and he was chasing. I actually switched stands as I saw a pair of bucks chasing a doe through a harvested field a over a half mile away. I did not even have time to nock the arrow when the trio came by, but fortunately he hesitated close by. I stalked my biggest gun buck while he was bedded (till 20 yards away). He was tired.
We have this same conversation nearly every year, and the same questions are asked each time. So I'll start off with my usual query:
Is it necessary to actually kill the trophy buck? Remember a year or two ago when I asked about future, sci-fi hunting weapon advancements that might allow one to just stun the animal? Knock it down, take some photos, measurements for a replica, then watch it get up and walk away....kinda like throwing back that trophy BG, huh?
RAH claims it's cheaper to buy meat, so let's assume that's true. In that case we don't need to eat the trophy buck, so that eliminates that as a reason for killing it.
That leaves me with asking the hard question. As hunters, do we need to see blood in order to gain satisfaction from the hunt? Be honest, Is it really about food, or genetic improvement, or curbing overpopulation issues, or is it actually about stroking our egos, everytime we look up at those antlers hanging on the wall?
Keep in mind that I'm a hunter myself, and I have no problem with others killing deer...none whatsoever. I'm just convinced that the real reason for killing a trophy deer, any trophy animal actually, is too often obscured underneath a cause deemed more noble.
"Forget pounds and ounces, I'm figuring displacement!"
If we accept that: MBG(+)FGSF(=)HBG(F1) And we surmise that: BG(>)HBG(F1) while GSF(<)HBG(F1) Would it hold true that: HBG(F1)(+)AM500(x)q.d.(=)1.5lbGRWT? PB answer: It depends.
Sports are about competition and challenge. I eat deer because I hunt. I don't hunt for meat (I actually prefer fish). We also give a lot away. The greater benefit is deer control. I take nearly my doe limit every year. If you ever run into a deer with your vehicle, you'll appreciate the deer herd control.
Okay, let's run with that. If I'm understanding you correctly, you consider deer hunting a sport, complete with competition. But competition with whom? The trophy deer itself, or other hunters? You eat trophy deer meat because you hunt, and you give away what you cannot eat yourself. I totally agree with that philosophy. But we agree that eating the trophy deer is most certainly not your primary reason for killing a trophy buck, correct?
You also mention deer control, and the need for me to be appreciative of hunters' efforts to reduce their numbers in order to reduce auto accidents. By that same reasoning, am I therefore justified in chastising those who plant food plots, and manage their resources in order to improve habitat? More food and additional habitat = more deer, right? More deer = more chances for me to plow one with the pickup, right? If population reduction is the legitimate reason for killing trophy deer, then why spend time and money encouraging an increase in their numbers?
Something doesn't quite add up here. Again, I'm all for shooting a deer. I just gave another neighbor and his young son permission to hunt on me this fall. That brings the number of hunters in my woods to 4 this season. I'm just advocating for honesty regarding trophy hunting. There really needs to be blood, doesn't there? We can tiptoe around it year after year, but the real, actual, honest reason may not be quite so noble after all.
"Forget pounds and ounces, I'm figuring displacement!"
If we accept that: MBG(+)FGSF(=)HBG(F1) And we surmise that: BG(>)HBG(F1) while GSF(<)HBG(F1) Would it hold true that: HBG(F1)(+)AM500(x)q.d.(=)1.5lbGRWT? PB answer: It depends.
Sport or hobby, one tries to improve the taking of higher quality deer. Food plots increase deer quality. Hunt-free parks get overrun with starving deer as all the young trees and shrubs get devastated. Google quality deer management. taking a lot of does decreases the herd and improves the quality of the herd at the same time by making bucks compete. And yes hunting involves killing the deer, which was something I had to get used to. Its still my least favorite part. Its OK if you don't get trophy hunting, but I see no problem with it. Why take babies unless you cannot get mature deer?
Hold on, I think I see an important difference here. First, I also have no problem with killing does. And yes, hunting deer usually involves killing deer, at least right now. But I'm not talking about killing deer, I'm talking about deliberately killing trophy deer...that's the part where I can't seem to get a straight answer. You can reduce deer numbers AND put food in the freezer by killing does.
Why, why deliberately kill the biggest and the best bucks??? You're skipping over the all important distinctions between killing deer, killing mature deer, and killing trophy deer.
What is your reason for wanting to kill the biggest, bestest deer? We've established that it isn't food or population control, as taking numbers of does will accomplish that, so what's left?
"Forget pounds and ounces, I'm figuring displacement!"
If we accept that: MBG(+)FGSF(=)HBG(F1) And we surmise that: BG(>)HBG(F1) while GSF(<)HBG(F1) Would it hold true that: HBG(F1)(+)AM500(x)q.d.(=)1.5lbGRWT? PB answer: It depends.
Trophy deer leave you with a trophy (antlers), just like those that mount a large bass. What would you do if a 200-class deer came in under your stand? Trophy hunters are simply willing to wait for a trophy buck and maybe harvest no buck at all if the right one does not appear.
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