Pond Boss Forums MANAGING AN EXISTING POND Evaluating and adjusting fish populations Quick Seine Survey

I made one short pass with the seine net this afternoon, looks like I had a sizable RES and GSH hatch this year.

Awesome!

Last year it was mostly GSH, bullfrog tadpoles, and a 1/2 dozen 3 to 4" RES.

Those look like what I have been trapping from my pre-sediment pond where the RES were nesting earlier this year. I've trapped some I know were CNBG that swam in during high water from the sediment pond, but everything lately has been about the size of the ones in your seine and look just like them. I've been hoping they were RES but have not been completely sure. Put a few in my wife's concrete pond by the house hoping to grow them big enough to tell for sure.

Looking good Shorty. Hope I can do the same type seine survey in about a month.

Looks like BG , mixes and some LMB ?

Mostly little 1-2" redears, golden shiners, and a few bullfrog tadpoles.

Looking good Steve!

Ewest what in the picture makes you think BG instead of RES?

I have both in my sediment pond and have a real tough time telling the difference at that size. I get a lot more CNBG than RES but if I catch them both in the trap at the same time and there are lots of CNBG but only one or two RES they look enough different that I THINK I can tell. Once they get up to about 3" then the coloring on the ear tab starts showing up and it is easier.

Been getting a number out of my tiny pre-sediment pond that only has spawning size RES and the 1-2" coming out of it look just like Shorty's picture.

Very hard to tell at that size and pic. The vert. bars on some look BG/CNBG ish to me.

Eric, there are no BG in the pond that I am aware of. Also, there is nothing above or below my pond that would allow BG or any other type of fish to get into the pond during a high water event. Anything other than what I stocked would had to have been introduced via a bucket or by bird, both of which I find very unlikely. I do have a heron that flies between my pond and another small one over the hill by the school, but I would be skeptical if the other pond had anything other than frogs in it.

Vertical stripes are not that usual for RES, here are a few examples from my photobucket library.

Shorty you are doing a wonderful service for all other PBF members by posting so many pictures of RES. RES are not caught as often as other fish so not so many pictures posted. Yours will be a great future reference for others for future ID purposes. I especially like all the different shades and colors of your fish at different sizes and times.

When I go to some official site for ID purposes likely there will be only one or two pictures and likely of very colorful fish maybe in spawning colors. Your fish show the wide range of possibilities of coloration of RES.

Thanks!

8/01/16 Quick Seine survey, one short pass with net found lots of 2-3" RES and GSH, a few 5-6" RES and GSH, and very few BF tads this year.

Nice work Shorty !!!!!! A lot for one haul .

That was just a small portion of the net, there were quite a few more fish on both sides of this picture. We also had some that jumped the net or slipped under it.

Wow Shorty, are you near your carrying capacity? I can't imagine having that many in one pass! How do you propose to control all those young RES and GSH?

I started with 50 RES in my small puddle and have not seen a successful spawn now that we are 2 summers past stocking. I stocked them about the size of that tiny one in the plastic bag or container that you have in the bottom picture in the series of pictures above.

IF they create that many young that I get that many in one pass I'll be really worried about catching enough or getting enough predators in to control the population!

I know RES hammer FHM, but do they eat YOY perch or in your case the smaller GSH? Ever check the stomach content of your RES?

Not sure on the carrying capacity part yet, we seined in the shallow corner of the dam, it is an area that almost always has a lot of small fish. Keep in mind that there is simply not a lot of shallow areas in my 1/4 acre puddle.

I do know that the 8"+ RES I had in my aquarium were very good at catching and eating FHM up to 2-1/4" to 2-1/2", their preference was for smaller fish though. I suspect both larger RES and GSH are hammering YOY fish of all types. I may see if I can find a dozen HSB to supplement my SMB predator base.

very nice SMB!! They probably clean up on everything that they can catch and fit in their mouth. I know the GSH can swim very fast!

Do you have crayfish?

No crayfish that I know of, I initially stocked 70 SMB in my 1/4 acre pond and had unexpected reproduction within six months of stocking. I figure I was predator heavy for a while. I do see SMB chasing GSH all of the time but between a few DO sags and a resident GBH I am not really sure how many SMB I currently have in the pond.

Please keep us updated on this pond Shorty. My 2/3 acre pond is RES/SMB only and I'm wondering if it will become overpopulated with RES or SMB. I've got management plans for both, but I'd like to jump on it as soon as needed. Watching the progress of your pond may give me some insight into what may happen in my pond.

NEDOC, do you have any Golden Shiners in your RES/SMB pond? They play a big role in what is going on in my pond.

70 SMB in a 1/4 acre pond!! My pond is about that size and I was thinking about stocking about 10-12 to keep things in balance! But it sounds like you have tons of RES and GSH and the SMB stay busy chasing them.

Before I do SMB I need a lot more forage. My GSH adults are just getting to the 4-5" size and haven't seen any smaller ones yet. I do have scads of YOY perch and I'll like put off the SMB till I'm sure I have YOY RES.

How did you get a DO sag?

Heavy algae bloom, I have farm field running coming into the pond every time it rains. We had a very strong cold front with rain come in and the bloom died off, the water went from green to brown very quickly.

No I don't and I know very little about them. Please fill me in on their role. My FHM are depleting quickly now, so I may need a food base within the next year or so.

GSH are very prolific, fast, and I believe very good at thinning down newly hatched fry. Larger GSH will will be very competitive with your other fish of similar gape size.

Interesting indeed. I had looked into stocking them in my catfish/carp pond to control carp reproduction. But with there being no vegetative growth at all in that pond, I didn't think they would survive. Right now my plan is to thin RES with rod and reel and throw the excess into my catfish/carp pond. My SMB I have plenty of takers for to throw into their ponds. But if I struggle to keep up, I may stock GSH. Do we have a good source locally?

GSH, nice torpedo shaped body, easy for predators to swallow. Harder for them to catch as they can fly! It is the bait of choice for many (see post today about CC wanting to bite on a live shiner over chicken livers) They also reproduce in small ponds well. They tend to thin the herd on any other competing fish. They also like to take pellets at feeding time which can be a downside.

I sourced mine from the local bait man, got a full bag when his normal bait shipment came in. I also had luxury of putting them in when there were no predators so that I could stock smaller numbers and wait a couple of years for reproduction to kick in.

Check a bait shop? Must be an online place too?

I have absolutely no vegetation in my pond right now, I also don't have any FA algae either which I believe is due to the presence of good numbers of GSH. Having no vegetation and no FA has led to very green water, secchi dish readings are currently running 11-12", they were 10-11" last week. Funny thing is I can take a bucket of pond water, set it on the dock, the water will clear within a day and then FA starts growing a few days later.

I stocked 3 dozen GSH from a local bait shop six months before my SMB and RES were stocked. If you are looking for larger ones you are more than welcome to come and get some of mine.

I just got a couple dozen from a local convienience store that sold bait. I looked them over and they seemed to be lively and healthy. I suppose a person could run into problems if he got some diseased fish or something but mine seemed to do fine.

Put a dozen in my 3 acre pond and a dozen in my 1/20th acre forage pond. Caught one later on hook in main pond at 6" but can't say I ever saw much of them. Likely LMB eventually got them. But in my forage pond a different story. First year FHM in that pond went gangbusters (RES, FHM and GSH in this pond). Would catch a GSH in a trap once in a while. This year the reverse. Rarely catch a FHM but can get lots and lots of smaller GSH in a minnow trap.

I hope the small ones go over the overflow pipe into the main pond during larger rain events and populate or supplement the main pond.

I like the idea. I may give it a try in the next year or so.

The new issue of PB magazine has a pretty good article by BobLusk discussing golden shiners.

Thank you for the heads up Bill! I did get the new issue last week, I just haven't had a chance to read it yet.

Bill, I read the article and wonder if it would be helpful to periodically remove some of my larger GSH. Thoughts?

Here is a big one from last night.

Wow, what size LMB (or gape size!) is needed to swallow a 9" GSH?? Can a LMB even catch a GSH of that size? What a great forage fish for larger predators though...

snrub, I have followed in your footsteps and am now raising fhs in my settling pond and they are doing well and making lots of babies. Now I am thinking of the shinners. have u tried the in your settling pond or just the forage pond? do u think they would reproduce or survive in a pond that will get muddy when it rains?

Tracy

Tracy, shiners do well in my pond when it gets muddy. They seem to have no problem finding pellets when visibility is down to 3" or 4".

Thanks Shorty, I may do that someday in the future (add them to my settling pond). I did a bucket stocking of GSH'ers back around 20 months ago. leftovers from a couple of fishing trips, maybe a total of 40 bait sized gsh. I have seen one since then and it was around 3 to 4 " or had doubled in size. I have no idea if any reproduction has occurred. It was recommended to me not to stock gsh's due to possibility of disease, so I did not add any more to this heavy stocked forage lmb pond. But I added them prior to asking for the recommendation on adding gsh. oop's

Tracy

I ran another quick seine survey this afternoon, lot's of GSH, YOY RES, and BF tadpoles. I am very happy to see the RES after the significant winter kill that I had at ice out.






Click on thumbnails for larger view.

Nice haul Shorty ! Any analysis of your thoughts on the survey ?

No RES over 2" which was interesting, last year in October I ran the seine and hauled in lots of 3-4" RES and had a hard time finding any under 3". Back in late April and early May I ran the seine without single RES in the haul, all GSH and BF tadpoles. I was very worried that I had had complete RES winter kill event at ice out. My guess is that I had a few survivors but can't be certain of it. I did get a few sexually mature RES from Nedoc back in May and put them in the pond, I am just glad to see some recruitment occurred.

In your pictures there are no fish with red ear tabs, are the sunfish in your pics bluegill or red ear sun fish? I have in my pond some fish that look like yours just thought they were female bluegill.
PS> the gsh are easy to tell what they are.

They are all RES as there are no BG in my pond. The red ear tab marking on RES doesn't start to show up until they are 2" to 3" and YOY BG and RES are hard to tell apart until they get bigger.

Ran a quick shallow water seine tonight, surface temp at 57 degrees, lots of shiners and RES of various sizes and a few FHM, no bull frog tadpoles.

Having fished golden shiners for largemouth in Florida many times, I can say for certain a bass four pounds and up can easily suck a 9" shiner down. The last time I shiner fished with my late father in Orange Lake, Florida, I paid $1.50 each for 8-12 inch shiners.

Anytime largemouth and golden shiners co-habit, the shiners will be a preferred forage. A shiner's fusiform shape is "eye candy" to a largemouth.

It is almost impossible to find "large" shiners in my part of the country and I've been thinking about building a small pond to grow them.

I had shiners stocked in the fall but never have seen a single one that survived. Not electrofishing, and not at feeders.

LMB love them!

Those RES look great!

I’ve considered using one of my grow out ponds to grow out shiners and then stock them in my large pond. Was hoping they’d do a good job of sucking up carp eggs but seems they may just destroy my water quality even further so I’ve held off.

The golden shiners and redears appear to co-habitate well in a forage pond.

Same experience here Bill. My RES fingerlings and GSH thrive in my 1/20th acre Forage Pond

I have moved lots of RES fingerlings and GSH over to my main pond from the forage pond. I need to seine it like Shorty did but I just keep after it with a cast net about three nights a week.