Was out looking around the pond with the family and noticed lots of small fry yesterday evening. I thought great the FHM live and have spawned. I went back out at noon today and got a closer look and they resemble more of a panfish. As I continued to walk the banks I noticed several RES sitting on nests. I just stocked them this year and have been watching them grow so the size was appropriate with my initial stocking. Is it possible for RES to spawn in the first year or are 2-4" fish holdovers from last year? Thanks.
I can not answer your question with any authority, but can share my experience.
I got RES last fall at 1" size and earlier this summer caught some by hook and line that were in the 4-5" range. I moved 4 of these RES from the pond they were in to a tiny pond to see if they would reproduce there. One male immediately made a nest and was guarding it. That was about two months ago.
That might give you a timeline on size of fish and age and ability to at least make nests.
Yes most sunfish ( BG , RES , GSF etc) ,when stocked into new water, can spawn in a few mths (3-4 inches in size)provided temp and photoperiod and condition are ok.
Update on the above 4 RES transplanted to my tiny 20x40 pre-sediment pond.
I saw a male on the nest about 11am today. Seems like if I stay on my UTV they don't scare away as bad as if I get off to look. Went about my fish feeding chores and returned a short while later. As I drove by slowly saw both male and female and not sure but think I might have seen another near the nest. Drove around and made another slow pass and the female and male were actively spawning, one tipping slightly sideways and both shimmering while the eggs were being deposited and fertilized. They were doing the deed!
I was excited. Hopefully have some RES fry a week from now.
We usually expect RES spawn in the early spring as water warms up. But I have witnessed both last year and now this year RES in shallow water (maybe 9" deep) on beds.
This likely the second spawn? Or juvenile RES just reaching maturity so having the first spawn but a late spawn???? Don't know.
snrub, Wish I would see mine do the deed but no dice so far. Although it is pretty cool to see the males flare up their gills and "go for the throat" when another male approaches. I count about 30 nests around the pond.
ewest, Thanks for the info, didn't think it was possible so I am pleasantly surprised.
As I walked the pond at high sun today there are fry everywhere along the banks. Due to the shear abundance I would venture to guess some are FHM which is even better as I have not seen them for months. It appeared there were 2 distinct shapes of fry, could be my eyes though. Would one be able to notice a FHM fry vs a RES fry?
A trained eye probably could but I can't until the fish are several weeks old. Then the differences in the way they swim and school becomes more noticeable. I imagine a person could if he netted some and looked at them under a magnifying glass but I have never tried it.
Late afternoon I watched the male on the nest for a while. He is definitely locked into position now. If I start to get too close he will start to leave the nest but he does not want to and I don't want him to so stayed a safe distance away. If I had a whole colony of them I could see, would be more aggressive and try to get some close pictures, but want to see if I can get some reproduction in this small pond so don't want to push my luck.
There was another male with a bed right next to this male, but it was a small maybe 3.5" RES. He seemed kind of sporadic, like he wanted to nest but didn't exactly know what he was doing. He would run other fish away, but sometimes chase them a foot or more away the nest before returning and chasing something else away. The two RES seemed to tolerate each other but stay out of each others nests. The 5" RES guarding eggs would never leave the nest, but instantly nip at any fish that came too close. He would sit right over the top of the nest, then periodically lower himself a little and very obviously fan the eggs with his pectoral fins. He could move with lightning speed if an intruder came too close, making a circle within the nest so fast it just looked like a blur.
Interesting stuff.
Edit: Added a picture. If you squint real hard and look exactly in the center of the picture the RES is there. The other smaller fish resides just behind this fish. RES do not seem to be near as particular about their nests as BG from my observations. These two "nests" are actually depressions I made shortly after adding the rock lining visible in the picture. I had rubber boots on and stepped out in the water a little ways and my footprints left a couple depressions. The RES have groomed and adopted these two man made depressions.
snrub, I have seen little to no RES or CNBG nest in my pond and think it is due to water depth's being deeper just off the bank and also due to the pond having only 22" of visibility due to fertilization of the water. you occasionally write of diving or snorkeling in your pond, but when snorkeling in my pond I can only see to arms length's and the water looks to be pretty green. What would u saw your water clarity is? And when trapping I see 1" perch (brim) size and shapes in my minnow traps. Some are for sure cnbg but others look like res, can u tell the difference I your perch @ 1"?
Tracy
Do not judge me by the politicians in my City, State or Federal Government.
Redear sunfish display great variation in spawning season. Within most of their range, redear sunfish usually begin to spawn in May to June, and may continue to spawn until September (Schoffman 1939; Dineen 1968; Pflieger 1975). Redear may spawn sparingly during the summer and heavily in the early fall (Swingle 1949). In Florida redear sunfish begin to spawn in late February or early March and continue to spawn intermittently until October 1 (Clugston 1966). In the northern reaches of their distribution (Michigan, Illinois, and Indiana), nesting begins in May to July and generally does not extend into late summer (Krumholz 1950; Cole 1951; Childers 1967).
Also...
Quote:
Redear sunfish have been reported to mature at Age I (Schoffman 1939; Lopinot 1961; Dineen 1968) at an average length of 12.7 cm (5") in Florida (Wilbur 1969). Attainment of sexual maturity is probably a function of size more than age. In most natural situations, redear mature at Age II (Krumholz 1950; Wnbur 1969). When redear matured less than Age I, this occurred in newly stocked waters that contained only the one redear age class. Age I and less redear probably do not reproduce when living with older age classes (Cole 1951; Dineen 1968; Wilbur 1969). Maximum reported age, length, and weight are 8 years, 35.5 cm, and 1.3 kg, respectively (Carlander 1977).
What you describe below is normal RES & BG behavior.
" He would run other fish away, but sometimes chase them a foot or more away the nest before returning and chasing something else away. The two RES seemed to tolerate each other but stay out of each others nests. The 5" RES guarding eggs would never leave the nest, but instantly nip at any fish that came too close. He would sit right over the top of the nest, then periodically lower himself a little and very obviously fan the eggs with his pectoral fins. He could move with lightning speed if an intruder came too close, making a circle within the nest so fast it just looked like a blur."
Great info Shorty !!!! It agrees with the other studies and data from the field. New ponds have no existing populations of adult BG or RES to suppress sexual maturity (spawning)in the new stockers so the new ones try to fill the pond up with their offspring ASAP.
The 4 fish that I caught and put in this tiny pre-sediment pond (hoping they would spawn) were caught after Shorty described his method of using a very small jig with small plastic on his Sexing RES thread. I used basically the same technique as he described and fished only a foot or so from bank in very shallow water (1' + or -). This water was much more turbid so I could not see the fish, but I am guessing the fish I caught were males nesting or females near a nest. The picture of the one that I saw spawning would have been at about the depth and distance from bank where I originally caught it in the adjacent sediment pond. This pre-sediment pond just has relatively clear water at the moment so I am able to see the fish spawn.
Sediment pond is still too turbid/algae. Wish I could see them. That is where I stocked 200 RES last fall (Actually about 175 because I put part of the batch in nearby forage pond) and are the original source of thes 4 fish in this pre-sediment pond
snrub, I have seen little to no RES or CNBG nest in my pond and think it is due to water depth's being deeper just off the bank and also due to the pond having only 22" of visibility due to fertilization of the water. you occasionally write of diving or snorkeling in your pond, but when snorkeling in my pond I can only see to arms length's and the water looks to be pretty green. What would u saw your water clarity is? And when trapping I see 1" perch (brim) size and shapes in my minnow traps. Some are for sure cnbg but others look like res, can u tell the difference I your perch @ 1"?
Tracy
I got lucky about two months ago and my pond cleared up where I could see maybe 3-4 feet. That is really clear for my pond. That is when I was able to observe the 8" BG and one 8-9" RES on nests. I went out last week with one grandson to clean air diffusers and we could only see maybe 18". Keep in mind, when the vis is 18" a person can only "clearly" see about half that. At 3' vis a person can only see "clearly" at about half that. At the edge of visibility it gets really fuzzy. I was taking video of the BG on nests within a foot of the fish and anything over about 18" all you can make out is a blur. So the fish I was taking video of were solid on the nests.
It is a real trick of patience to see any fish in water that has very low visibility. It was "relatively" easy in 3-4' vis. By relatively I mean I could very slowly crawl on the bottom in 3' of water till I ran across a nesting BG. Initially I would scare it off the nest but by backing up slightly and waiting, it would come back on the nest. There were likely eggs there, but I did not want to disturb things any more than I already was and to see eggs or fry a person almost has to get his mask right up in the nest. Remember, with 3' vis things are actually "clearly" visible at half that. And to see something tiny as eggs you almost have to have your mask 6-8" away. I did not want to disturb the fish that much. When I was snorkeling in a pond at Cape Cod with the LMB and PS on nests, we could see probably 10-12 feet. That allowed us to see the nests enough ahead to approach slowly and could actually see LMB fry above the nest with the nervous male LMB nearby and saw eggs in one PS nest with the male right over the top of them. But with the vis in most ponds you almost have to be right on top of the nests before even knowing they are there.
It takes a lot of patience to see fish in turbid water and the lower the vis, the more likely all you will ever see is the small ones. To see small fish, perch yourself along a bank with your hands on the bottom in about 2-3' of water. Put your hands in front of you so you have something to focus on. Putting some sinking feed or bread or something in front of you helps. Lay there (or sit) without moving and without moving your eyes. After anywhere from a minute to a few minutes (a few minutes seems like an eternity when you can't see anything) small BG will come around just barely in view. After a while you will fell them pecking on your arms or around your mask or hair. Keep still and eventually they will come right up to your face plate and peck on the glass. Anything that is big and round and has eyes (like your mask) looks like something that would eat them. So they are very leery of it. But if you sit there long enough, curiosity gets the better of them (especially small fish - that is why most small fish never get to be big fish) and they will look you over. I don't have any LMB fry yet that I know of, but LMB are actually very curious also. Back when we used to dive/snorkel in the lakes, we could get foot long LMB to come right up to us. But it takes patience. Fish can see you and know of your presence in the water LONG before you ever see them. Usually the only way to see them (in turbid water) is to let them come to you. The exception is if they are on the nest and do not want to leave. Then you can sometimes come upon them by moving VERY slowly. I'm getting long winded again, but it really does take some technique to see fish in turbid water. Much like fishing when the fish are not biting, trying to snorkel in turbid water has to do with patience and technique. Swimming you will never see a fish. It takes staying still and letting them come to you. Only way to see bigger fish in turbid water is if they will come to feed. I had 18" CC coming into within an inch of my go-pro camera by holding it almost on top of some fish food and waiting about 5 minutes in one spot. But this was with 3-4' vis. In the 18" vis we only were able to see a few very small BG. In the 3-4' vis I could dive down to the diffusers and see the bubbles coming out in kind of a "twilight" setting at 9' depth. In the 18" vis it was black, black, black. Had to follow the rope down to the diffuser and clean it by feel. Grandson did not go down there but once.
Differences between 1" RES and CNBG? Good luck with that one. No I can not tell the difference. Sometimes when I get say a dozen fish in the trap and one looks somewhat different, I "think" it may be a RES, but don't really know. When they get up to about 3", then it becomes easier. Still not foolproof (for me a novice), but easier. A lot of times by 2.5-3" there will be a tiny "dot" of orange at the end of the opercular tab. You have to look really close, almost needing a magnifying glass (I should carry one!!! but I don't). Once in a while at 2" you can see it. But at 1"??? Not me. I think it would get down to killing the fish and with a magnifying glass start counting spines and the like to get an ID. I've never tried that.
With the typical 1" opening minnow trap most BG or RES are going to be in the 1" range, maybe 1.5". Up to 2-3" with GSF because of their longer shape. If you clip the wire end out of the minnow trap and make the opening about 2" you can get some larger fish that are easier to identify. Or buy a larger trap or get a crayfish trap. But be advised that with a larger opening the fish get out easier so you have to check the trap 5-15 minutes after baiting. If the fish are attracted by the bait, they will be gone as soon as the bait is eaten. With this larger opening when I put 4 traps a few feet apart, I can almost keep busy just checking #1 and by the time I get done with #4, #1 will again be ready to check. Maybe every 5-10 minutes. I can waste the better part of a day just trapping and viewing small fish. And posting on PBF. Hey, whats retirement for if I can't have a little fun!!!! . "Need" to get out there now.
What you describe below is normal RES & BG behavior.
" He would run other fish away, but sometimes chase them a foot or more away the nest before returning and chasing something else away. The two RES seemed to tolerate each other but stay out of each others nests. The 5" RES guarding eggs would never leave the nest, but instantly nip at any fish that came too close. He would sit right over the top of the nest, then periodically lower himself a little and very obviously fan the eggs with his pectoral fins. He could move with lightning speed if an intruder came too close, making a circle within the nest so fast it just looked like a blur."
Great info Shorty !!!! It agrees with the other studies and data from the field. New ponds have no existing populations of adult BG or RES to suppress sexual maturity (spawning)in the new stockers so the new ones try to fill the pond up with their offspring ASAP.
Ok ewest, thanks, but I've never been accused of being short. I'm 6'1" and used to be 6-2 before getting old.
I really enjoyed watching their antics and it has been a really neat year in that regard watching these RES from the bank, seeing my BG and RES on nests snorkeling earlier in the year in my main pond, and observing LMB and PS on nests in a Cape Cod pond while snorkeling with a friend and resident there.
So I pulled this guy out of a minnow trap this evening. He was about 1.5-2" (there was also 2 smaller ones). I only stocked RES and he looks more like a bluegill. Does it take time for the red ear tab to appear or do I need to adjust my stocking plan as we now have bluegill?
snrub, long winded, I am the same way sometimes thanks for the answers to my questions. ben, when I trap the brim (perch) minnows @ an inch and a half, some are clearly cnbg but some of the others in the trap are not marked the same. I figured they were res but I figure wrong sometimes
Tracy
Do not judge me by the politicians in my City, State or Federal Government.
Thanks Shorty and Tracy. I am going to continue to trap and watch. On a side note, this whole fish raising, ecosystem watching, is somewhat addictive. PondBoss is dangerous as it feeds the addiction.
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Wish I could see them. That is where I stocked 200 RES last fall (Actually about 175 because I put part of the batch in nearby forage pond) and are the original source of thes 4 fish in this pre-sediment pond
Hey, whats retirement for if I can't have a little fun!!!! 
. "Need" to get out there now. 
thanks for the answers to my questions. ben, when I trap the brim (perch) minnows @ an inch and a half, some are clearly cnbg but some of the others in the trap are not marked the same. I figured they were res but I figure wrong sometimes 
