Pond Boss Forums INTRO Questions & Observations To rip-rap or not to rip-rap, that is the question

Just completed the dam on my pond site! FINALLY!

Now I have a decision to make: Is rip-rap worth the cost?

Anybody tried it? Pluses and minuses? Your experience & advice would be much appreciated!

Hay Frank, good to here of your dam being completed. I know you have waited a long time for things to dry out and now I wonder if it's ever going to rain again, been a couple of months since I've seen any rain on my place. Oh well, that will give you something else to wonder about now. Now as far s your question about rip rap on the dam, I did patches of rip rap along the dam. Now setting in 1 to 4' of water. And surrounded by Christmas trees sunk around them. Hauling in big rock is not cheap in our neck of the woods and from what I have seen, it is not necessary here. We don't see strong winds here every day eroding the waters edge.

Tracy

Rip-rap along the dam and extending below the waterline will often discourage muskrats.

Also provides good habit for fish, fish fry, and crawdads.

I'm going to add it to mine this summer now that the big pond filled. I like the habitat and protection it offers. Yes there is a cost, but I think it is worth it.

I am also going to add crushed rock to the top of the dam for road base while I am at it.

I added riprap to my levee when I first built it...for erosion control as well as to discourage muskrats. Seems to have done the job so far. I would recommend landscaping cloth underneath...seems to have really helped in my case, rocks are still in place and haven't sunk much at all.

Thread about rock lining a ponbd

Here is an old thread discussing using rock around a pond. As I recall, there are also links within the thread to other threads on the subject.

Thanks, guys! Really appreciate the advice, I've never done this before and needed some input before making a decision. Never even considered muskrats, though if they show up maybe I should stock some alligators!

I'm hearing that granite will cost $51 a ton DELIVERED to my site. Does that number seem reasonable? I realize you can get it cheaper at the rock pit, but delivery is really expensive...

Granite is very expensive - probably twice that cost here in NE. Limestone here is $20/T delivered as we have many local quarries, although it's not as aesthetically pleasing as granite, it's 60% cheaper. You can source broken concrete [ask for no rebar] delivered for free. As most of it will be beneath the water line, it's not a bad option, and the free part is always nice. Call any dumpster companies and tell them you have a free place to dispose of sidewalk/driveway concrete - in my experience they will be happy to receive your call.

Consider using concrete beneath the water line, and top dress the last couple feet beyond freeboard with granite. Why spend $ on granite when you'll never be able to see it? Should cut your project cost by 50-75%.

I would recommend using limestone myself just for the price, and in my opinion it doesn't look bad. I got my rip rap delivered for a total price of about $19/ton, but with over 300' of dam to cover it is still getting pricey.

I think the only downside to rip-rap is walking on it barefoot. As mentioned, placed to about 4' below low water points, it can discourage/eliminate muskrat and nutria damage to the pond. Adding Limestone rip/rap will also help buffer natural acids produced in the water (granite won't), greatly reduces erosion from wind/wave action, provides great forage species habitat (like crawfish, reptiles and invertebrates)....personally, when done well, I think it looks great too!

Rainman, considering the looks of the limestone, in one of the old threads there were some pond owners that did not like the looks of the crushed limestone around the pond. Thought it looked industrial or fake. I had mentioned that I like the looks of fake and that it made it look like I had actually done something with the pond as opposed to all the "natural" that I have all over the rest of my farm in the woods and waste areas of the farmstead. But good looks is always something of a personal nature, so each to his own personal preference. But I digress.

What I want to point out, and at some later date when mine turns all the way to grass will get some pictures, is that even a limestone lined pond bank, or road all the way around the pond like mine, in our climate at least will be all grass within a few years. If I wanted to keep my banks looking like I had them lined with limestone or the driveways looking like driveways, I would have to use a chemical to keep the grass at bay.

So in a climate like mine (42" of rain a year average), I could not keep the looks of a limestone lined pond even if I wanted to without a LOT of work. Mine is already mostly covered in grass and in another couple years there will be no limestone visible. It all goes back to grass eventually anyway. So even if a person does not care for the looks of crushed limestone, nature eventually wins out and the banks start looking more natural anyway (but I have a shore line that does not wash away and a road base that I can drive on in any weather without making ruts around my pond). That was my long winded point. I wish my pond would keep that industrial gravel pit look, but it will not. The grass will win out.

TJ, snrub, ozark, rainman, thanks so much for the advice & comments! My pond has very little in the way of rock, one reason I'd like to add some for habitat improvement.

On a slightly different subject, I've got 1/4 acre stock pond close by the main pond where I wish to raise BG and/or TP. 8 feet deep in the middle, but 1 - 3 foot banks for spawning.

Bob Lusk said that this should work well, but that weeds would be a problem in the shallows. I wonder if using an 8 to 12 inch thick bed of clean pebble rock, say 1/2 to 1 inch in diameter, to line the shallow areas would both enhance spawning and keep down weed growth.

thoughts? Has anybody tried this?

Yes, I have tried it. When I built the main 3 acre pond, in the SE corner I carved out a shallow part specifically for a spawning area. Started out at the bank about a foot deep and sloped it out to about 3' deep before it dropped off to deeper water.

Lined the bottom of the area with various sizes of rock and gravel to give the fish choices.

The first year it grew the most wonderful mass of FA a person can imagine. I raked it out once and got so tired of it, took the backhoe and dug out as far as I could reach out around the bank and eliminated the 1' deep part. Now it is several feet deep near the bank then starts about 2' and goes out to 3' deep. It had FA again this spring, but went snorkeling later in the spring when the water warmed up and sure enough, there were solid BG nests. My largest 8" BG had fanned out nests in the nesting area I had made for them. They had swept away the FA and were using the area. I actually took some pretty good videos of their action, but have yet to edit them and post them somewhere where I can share them here on PBF. The go-pro videos actually turned out pretty good, although the ones I took of the BG were upside down (can easily turn pictures over so I thought why not video - wrong). The ones I took of the RES fortunately were right side up. But I digress.

The point is, yes the fish did use the gravel I provided to spawn in. As far as I could tell they did not the first year. The water was never clear enough for me to see the beds, and when I raked the FA out later in the year I saw no evidence of beds having been there. But this spring they used the area big time. And the water got clear enough I could actually see underwater and interact within the BG spawning community. They would try to run me off when I got too close, actually coming up and almost bumping the camera. Pretty cool stuff.

As far as it keeping the weeds out.......... in my opinion.... very unlikely. I suspect the deep rooted weeds will grow right up through it. If you want to get rid of the weeds, my best guess would be to treat them with herbicide then put the gravel down. You might be able to put landscape cloth down, then the gravel, and keep the weeds at bay at least for a while. That might be an alternative. This is all speculation on my part. I have no pond weeds, only way too much experience with FA.

But the BG will use the gravel to spawn IF it is in the area they decide they want to spawn in. The first year for me it was not. This year it was.

Thanks! Highly informative. One reason I'm concerned about weeds is that I'd like to do some seining.

Bob's [obviously] correct - those shallow areas will become inviting for vegetation to flourish - and each year will continue to slowly silt in making it more shallow.

If you want to prevent weed growth, line the shallow shelf areas meant for spawning with landscaping fabric, staple it in place, then place whatever substrate you desire [pea gravel, sand, etc.]. This is how many PB guys have built their beaches with success. Building a 12" clay ridge around the "beach" area helps also retain the substrate and prevents it washing out. Landscaping fabric helps reduce weed growth and also mixing of substrate with clay/silt. Without the barrier created by the fabric, over several years the sand/gravel/rock it will entirely incorporate into you pond bottom and disappear - at least in my experience in my ponds.

This is what I did for my spawning areas. I actually used a non-woven geotextile material. It is kind of pricey, but it comes in wider rolls and I think was a little easier to use than several rows of narrower landscape fabric.

What we did here and it worked great was to use a recycled crushed concrete. Its called 4" medium. There is a group of smaller sizes in it but mostly 4". Why this is so good is the fact that the product has been crushed and has sharp edges. Round rock will never pack in and keep any bank from eroding. Secondly it looks great. Its not very pleasant to walk on in bare feet mind you but its very white.

The other good thing with this product is it as very very cheap. We took in 500 ton for $1000 Canadian. The whole pond has it 12 feet in length about 5 feet in depth around the 1 acre kidney shaped pond.

One more thing is that the concrete is keeping our PH up for us. How long this will be the case I do not know but we have millions and millions of crayfish that love the stuff.

Cheers Don.