Pond Boss Forums INTRO Questions & Observations LMB Temp?

I've seen small bass eat each other more than once. Often, they are sold as fingerlings due to their cannibalism in tanks.

I had over 700 smb and graded them between two tanks to feed train them a few years ago. Even with that grading, still only ended up with about 180 after cannabilism. Had to destroy 60 for VHS testing to sell them to a producer in Illinois.

Three gradings would have been better, but I didn't have three tanks at the time.

If you have FHM in spawning colors those particular fish are likely getting toward the end of their life cycle. If the ones you are loosing are the largest FHM's they might be dieing of old age. They only live about 18 months from what I read.

snrub, i lost at least 30 fish in 3 days now. Only maybe 20 of them left. And small ones dying too.

I am hoping they get over that stress as soon as possible and i can have a couple of them to breed.

I know that i am not doing anything wrong because all aquariums have the same water and fatheads are my in 45 Gal tank(which is huge for them).

What are the ammonia, nitrate and nitrite levels in the tank compared to the other tanks? Is there anything different about that tank vs. the others? i.e. filter, what's in the tank, water changes, etc?

Scott, the water is all fresh. My wife filled them up 5 days before i arrived. So i am sure water is very clean. And water we have here is pretty good for fish. Have never seen or heard of any fish deaths in this region because of pure water levels. Plus, every single fish besides fatheads are fine and seem to be very happy.

I changed 30% of the water yesterday.

I see some red spots on fish. These are very little bloody spots and i am pretty sure, caused by some kind of injury.

But anyways, i added salt and parasite medicine in their water. I have nothing to lose. These fish are gonna all be dead soon anyways. If it is some kind of parasite , this treatment will take care of it.

I put that dominant male fish in another tank because he was chasing other fish. I really doubt that this fish is the cause of all fish deaths but i am just trying everything to save these fatheads.

I had the same problem back in NYC. I was losing at least 1 or 2 fatheads every single day. I think that these fish are very fragile that they can't get over the stress of being transported.

Has anyone thought about shipping eyed eggs rather than live fish?

Fatih, I have found that fatheads are not fragile. I once saw an article that they were being stocked in areas to check pollution levels. That was because they could tolerate high levels of impure water.

Fatih,

Were these tanks where you're experiencing mobidity levels established with biofitration ahead of time? If not you may be experiencing "New Tank Syndrome." That is what Scott is driving at when he asked about ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate levels.

http://www.firsttankguide.net/newtanksyndrome.php


Nitrate levels are not an issue, and the species you shipped are nitrite tolerant, but ammonia can be extremely toxic and even damage gill tissue. Even if your tanks are cycled, the ammonia and nitrite levels may have reach very stressful levels during transport. Did the shipping water have any salt in it or an ammonia nitrite neutralizer?


No doubt the fish were severely stressed by shipping even if your conditions are good now. It's a given you will lose some. If you're lucky the problems will subside and the survivers will be good strong future brood fish.

And yeah as said fathead minnows have short lifespans. They also get a lot of abuse by producers, suppliers, and bait dealers. A lot of bait store dealers don't have the first clue about biofiltration and practice none. They lose fish every day and consider it normal.

I bought fathead minnows from a local Amish baitstore a few weeks ago. He had them in well water temp water which was 51.6 F. He wasn't there as the bait purchase is an honor system, but I had to wonder how many anglers dropped them in 85 F. water right away which meant instant shock. I tempered the ones I bought for an hour before putting them in the pond.

Actually that cold of water was great for D.O. but it's a great way to get a secondary fungus infection going in warm water fish from handling.

Heard about a fish farmer that thought he was smart holding bluegills in cold water in the summer, as he could hold more in the tanks due to higher D.O., and feed them less. But many of them came down with fungal infections.

Fatih, don't assume anything. Without actually testing the water you don't know, you are only guessing, and guessing could kill the fish.

Go to an aquarium shop and buy a test kit and test the water.

Cecil, I sent in separate bags, ammonia neutralizer and salt. I don't know if he used it or not, as he had to weigh it out for every container - I sent way more than what he needed to use.

Scott,

I didn't know who prepared the shipment. Been gone for a while so I'm still catching up on the saga.

Cheers!

Guys, you might be right! Bloody gills is one of the symptoms of high ammonia. I called shops and none had ammonia test kit. But i am taking all precautions to lower it now.

I bought a 6in1 test from aqua shop. It has all tests but Ammonia. My GH and PH are too high.

PH- 8,2
GH- 19

I have been using "PH down" solution of API but doesn't seem to be working.

Edit: Oh , i just read an article. It says if your GH is high, you will have trouble taking down the PH.

When we talked months earlier, I thought that you had all the tanks set up and cycled, and already had a test kit. Remember when you had problems with the Tilapia dying and I said to get a test kit and test the water?

I sure hope all this trouble wasn't for naught and the fish die once they are in the tanks.

Cecil, I sent detailed written instructions with the fish and supplies that I sent to New York before his flight. He was going to hold them in tanks there for 4-5 days before packaging them for the flight.

do you have well water, do water changes with well water.

Why are those readings "too high?"

My ph is 8.5 and my hardness is almost off the scale. It causes no issues with my fish. Trying to change Ph can, however, especially if it's done too rapidly.

The last thing you want to do with stressed fish is change the water chemistry, although a lower ph will reduce the unionized ammomia.

I never test hardness. It's a non-issue for me.

Scott, right before i left Turkey, i drained all the tanks.


Because when you and i talked about shipping fish eggs, that made sense and Keith and i were even talking about not going to Texas at all. My wife was little pissed with me because that water was stinky. So i drained them all.

That's the story...

I read some articles online and they say GH is not something to worry now. PH is not super high too.


I changed 30% water today and used an ammonia reducer in that tank. I don't think it is too late to save the fish. If they were dying because of high ammonia fish deaths should stop soon.

Nitrite and nitrate levels were close to 0 in that tank.

If you are using tap (city) and not well water, what chemical does your city use to treat the water?

What kind of filter system do you have on your tanks?

A guy I know (past acquaintance) that lived not too far from here worked for a company in Holland, MI. All he did was raise FHM for Environmental Assay's. That's about it!

These companies get a hunk of change for just an embryo, compared to what you might pay for a FHM you would put in your pond.

I mentioned that sounds quite lucrative, and it is, but he said you need both arms tattoo'd with PHD's to sell to the gub.

Back when we use to fish the Grand River, we use to see these assay cages all around.

They can tolerate a lot of conditions, that's why they use them.

This probably isn't the cause, but have you treated the water to remove chlorine and chloramine?

Usually the same compound that neutralizes ammomia and nitrites is also a chlorine neutralizer.

Our water has chlorine guys. No chloramine and i used those water conditioners. And as Cecil said they remove Ammonia too.

Here is the latest update: Since yesterday only 1 fish died and others seem all right. So it is improving. However i don't know whether it is because of my attempts to remove ammonia or putting aggressive male fish in separate tanks. Because these males are beating the crap out of all the fish there.

But i don't know until when i can separate aggressive males. Sooner or later i need them in my main FHM tank.

And i don't know guys. These males suddenly change their colors ( black color with 2 silver lines ), and start chasing other fish. Maybe they spawned and protecting their nests and i am ruining all spawning process...

if the only ones you are having issues with are the FHM can you serperate the spawning males with a few few females each or do you have a larger tank to give them more room. each male likes its own area.

do you have an above ground pool or even a larger sized plastic kiddie pool or stock tank to put them in with a little structure.

or a pond...