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Joined: Jul 2003
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1st 2 posts got botched, so here goes again:

i dammed up a valley on my property several months ago. now water is seeping out of the ground on the dry side of the dam. i've been comparing the pros/cons of bentonite & epdm liner. the liner sounds to be a better & pricer solution. i read an old post the other day stating you should cover a liner w/ about a foot of soil. this was the 1st i'd heard of this procedure & it would add signifacant cost to the liner option. what is everyone's experience w/ adding/not-adding a layer of soil above the liner?

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Shane,

First, it sounds to me like the dam was not built right and a core trench was not built in the center of the dam.

Bentonite clay, in our experience, has about a 50/50 chance of working. If a person is willing to spend the money on bentonite, it is usually our recommendation to use a liner and spend just a little more for the assurance (not gamble, with bentonite) of the pond holding water.

EPDM liners are the most expensive. We will typically use PVC liners because they are more cost effective. EPDM liners are mainly used in backyard/ornamental water garden ponds. EPDM is UV resistant whereas the PVC liners must be covered with soil when installed otherwise they will deteriorate quickly when exposed to sunlight for prolonged periods of time.

If a pond liner is done correctly, you will never know it is there...you can't see it. Another key to a good liner installation is making sure that an underlayment fabric is used in conjunction with the PVC liner. The last part to a good liner is using a liner trench on the outer portions of the pond. This is one of the most important parts to the liner. It prevents "liner float".

I hope this information is helpful. Feel free to e-mail me personally with any other questions you have.

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Shane,
In our company we use EPDM liners all the time for ponds. We do not normally use any type of soil on top of the liners that we install because we do not want to add any more organic matter to the water column. We do however like to use a good fabric material underneath to protect against any sharp edges under the liner ie. rocks and such. We have had some great success with these even in the larger pond sizes. I ma not certain on the size that you are looking at but I am certain that it could be accomplished and you would be very happy with the results. \:\)

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thanks for advise
trent is correct, there was no core built. it would have cost an extra $3k, so i decided to chance it. i can buy an epdm liner & underlayment for the cost of adding a core now. i believe the liner would be a better solution.

how smooth does the bottom need to be for a liner w/ underlayment? we have semi rocky soil. the damn & center of the pond are quite smooth, but the side walls are a little rugged. should i have a dozer resurface them or will underlayment & 45mil liner suffice? & what is generally used for the liner trench? trencher or backhoe? how wide should the trench be?

pond is about 70'x150', ~10k sq ft

thanks again
shane

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Shane,

Some things are best done the right way the first time as you have seen. When you spend a little more money now, it saves you from having to spend a lot of money later. Anyway...that's water through the dam at this point! \:\)

The liner trench can be dug using a trencher or backhoe. Typically the trencher is easier (Ditch Witch 3700 is usually the smallest I would use), but if all you have is a backhoe, that will work also.

There are two schools of thought on backfilling pond liners. If you use PVC, you must backfill. If you use EPDM, you don't need to backfill, but why would you want a "synthetic" looking pond. If a pond is not backfilled over the liner, more maintenance is required because you have removed an element (bottom soils) that help maintain your pond more naturally. In a pond with no bottom soil, pH fluctuations are more dramatic, anerobic bacteria (an important part of an aquatic ecosystem) are not able to thrive, etc. In most instances (emphasize "most") it is better to backfill a liner than leave it exposed. If you are interested in more reasons, feel free to ask. Can you tell what school of thought I'm in? \:D

The more smooth you can make the bottom, the less chance you have of puncturing the liner. Anything that maybe suspecious...get rid of it. I'm not sure who quoted you on the 45 mil liner, but that seems a little thick to me. You might double check on that number. If you backfill your liner, you can go with a thinner liner that will indeed cost you less money. Think of this...with an exposed liner that is not backfilled, it is very easily puctured or ripped by other objects (fish structure) that are placed in the pond. Think of the backfilled soil as extra "insurance."

That's all folks!

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thanks for info trent,

i have no regrets about not digging a core. adding a liner now will cost me no more than digging a core when the dam was built. the valley the pond is in has numerous natural springs & the soil is quite rocky. so even w/ a core, i may still have had leaks.

as for the liner, no one has quoted me anything or suggested any thickness. 45 mil epdn seems to be the most commonly stocked size, & it cost the same as 35 mil pvc (~$.35/sq ft).

my plan now is to drain the pond, smooth the sidewalls out a bit, install underlayment & liner & cover the edges of the liner w/ soil. still undecided on cover the rest of the liner w/ soil.

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EPDM is in my opinion a more forgiving product, that is it stretches more and will conform to contours and corners better than the woven. It is also very heavy to work with and takes more man power and seaming with tape and firestone sealer since it will only come in strips and not large squares.
Robert B


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