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#418114 07/09/15 12:56 PM
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Ok, I may be way off, but a question. I was thinking of a diy system. No electricity at the pond, maybe in the future. Would it work, or at least help my small (1/6 acre) pond if I created this system:
A submersible bilge pump, rigged to draw almost surface water (about 4" down)
Car battery to run pump.
Solar panel to charge battery
Timer to run pump from 2-6 am?
From having boats, I believe the battery will sustain 4 hours of a 1500-2000gph bilge pump. I would have it pump in the air to splash into the pond.
Pond is 10' at full pool, sloping sides.
Don't want to waste my time and money, but want to cool/aerate the top of the water column.
Thanks

BigBuck #418117 07/09/15 01:22 PM
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From what I know about aeration the top of the water column does not need to be aerated. There is already enough oxygen in the top of the water column from that water mixing with the atmosphere. You would need to draw water from near the bottom of the pond where the oxygen levels are lower and circulate it to the surface to increase the oxygen in the entire water column. As far as cooling the water I think it would actually increase the temp by mixing the pond, your increasing the amount of water contacting the warm air. That is why a lot of people only run their bottom diffusers at night. Perhaps a 12v inner tube pump connected to some small air stones on the bottom would help? Air takes less energy to move than water so if you could find a 12v air pump of some kind you may be able to run it off a battery longer than a bilge pump.

BigBuck #418125 07/09/15 02:47 PM
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Bigbuck,
mnfish had a pretty good DIY solar setup in a small BOW. Here is the thread he started regarding his project, http://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=402502&page=1. Good luck



BigBuck #418126 07/09/15 03:12 PM
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BB rig up a post or a cross bar of some sort and just setup a trolling motor with your battery. Unless you have a dock then attach it to dock, put it on speed 1 and let it circulate your pond. Put trolling motor about 3 feet deep or so and let it go. You would be surprised at the amount of water that trolling motor will move. I did this on my 1 acre pond and had flow all the way out 200 feet on speed 3 and if you have the right battery if will run on speed 1 for a long time. Get up the next day put it on charger and get it ready for that night. Just a thought!

RC

P.S. A lot of folks will argue mixing water by circulation is just as good as using diffusers and a small 30 pound thrust trolling motor will do the job like crazy!!


Last edited by RC51; 07/09/15 03:13 PM.

The only difference between a rut and a Grave is the depth. So get up get out of that rut and get moving!! Time to work!!
BigBuck #418131 07/09/15 06:58 PM
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Have you seen George's setup?

George's solar system

The timer can be adjusted to run when you want it to run.

Its well understood here in Texas.


Brian

The one thing is the one thing
A dry fly catches no fish
Try not to be THAT 10%
highflyer #418142 07/09/15 11:21 PM
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That looks like just what I am thinking of.
Thanks

Hatrackr #418152 07/10/15 07:38 AM
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Ok so how do these two statements work? Who is right or wrong here and is there a right or wrong when it comes to D.O. on the surface?? Not picking what so ever just asking!! Thanks,

High Flyer Said,

Sean,

This type of aerator uses a propeller, not a fan to lift some amount of water and toss it through the air to add O2.

Surface aeration is used to add O2 to the water. While it does pull some lower water up, its main job is to add O2. Fountains, are the least efficient. And bottom aeration is used primarily for mixing the water column (braking a thermal-cline) and off-gassing dead bottom water.

So the surface aerator was used to add O2.

And fountains are pretty. While they do mix a little and do add O2, they are the least efficient/ most expensive way to add O2.

So remember, they all do different job for your ponds. Use the system that will match your goals.

Brian

And then Hatrackr said:


Originally Posted By: Hatrackr
From what I know about aeration the top of the water column does not need to be aerated. There is already enough oxygen in the top of the water column from that water mixing with the atmosphere. You would need to draw water from near the bottom of the pond where the oxygen levels are lower and circulate it to the surface to increase the oxygen in the entire water column. As far as cooling the water I think it would actually increase the temp by mixing the pond, your increasing the amount of water contacting the warm air. That is why a lot of people only run their bottom diffusers at night.


So yeah where do we do from here?? smile I also been told (Not sure if it's true or not) but when you aerate the surface you need to get your water at least 2 feet high in order for it do really get any good D.O. back into it? Is that true or no?

RC


The only difference between a rut and a Grave is the depth. So get up get out of that rut and get moving!! Time to work!!
RC51 #418163 07/10/15 08:46 AM
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Yes, I am a bit confused as well. After a typical Texas day, the top foot of water will be very hot. The night temps will be much lower than the surface water temp. That was why I wanted to aerate from 2-6 AM, to cool the surface temps. Also, I believe DO is lowest then?
Wanting to put some HSB in just for fun, maybe to catch during cooler weather.
I have a trolling motor and could use it as described, except for the fact that I have a wife. Even though it is "my" pond, she still holds ultimate veto power. So, I need a system that I can either hide most of the components, or make it pretty.
Happy wife, happy life.
Married 41 years, would like to make it 42.

BigBuck #418166 07/10/15 09:03 AM
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RC,

Hear is a little longer explanation.

I'll start with your last question first. Your water needs to travel about 24 inches through the air on a standard day to have O2 saturation due to contact with air. If the day is not a standard day, it can take up to 28 inches of travel through the air to saturate. That travel does not need to be straight up. Sideways requires less energy and will expose your water to a larger volume of air during its travels.

The water that traveled through the air is going to loose some of its heat (heat of vaporization) and will be a little heavier than the water on top. So, some of that water is going to sink to some degree. Also, the prop is displacing surface water so other water must be drawn up to replace it. That water will go through the same process. And so on and so on.

With my testing I have found in my Topias (1/10 acre ponds) I can turn the entire pond over in about 30 minutes using a 1/4 HP DC surface aerator and will have homogenized temperature and O2 readings in less than 40 minutes. My Topias will have O2 reading over 5ppm on the bottom for more than 12 hours after running the surface aerator.

One of the biggest reasons for using a surface aerator is because fish will gravitate to the surface when O2 is low (piping action of the fish) and surface aerators add a lot of O2 to the surface quickly which saves fish. This is the emergency benefit of surface aerators.

Being very shallow, the Topias are going to be mixed top to bottom with a surface aerator, But if I tried this in the big pond, the bottom water would never be mixed using a surface aerator, the water is just too deep and the benefits of O2 would only be found in the top layer. Thus a bottom diffused system is a must in the big pond if I want to bring O2 saturated water to the bottom layers for the benefits of aerobic bacteria decomposing the muck, and opening up more water to my fish for habitat, but this will be a slower process.

Each system has its roll to play. Need O2 fast, use surface aeration. Want to destratify and bring healthier water to the depths, use bottom diffused aeration. Want to get lucky that night because the wife like the new pretty water works, get a fountain.

I have used both bottom and surface aeration and had great success. Fountains not required so far!!

I get that I am unconventional, but I also can back up my results with factual data.

Hope this helps. if not, ask more questions and either I or one of the experts will try to give a better explanation.


Brian

The one thing is the one thing
A dry fly catches no fish
Try not to be THAT 10%
BigBuck #418169 07/10/15 09:41 AM
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Brian, very nicely done sir.....thank you for the post!!! That is a lot of hard unbiased work right there.

I was wondering....If a pilot makes a great scientist/engineer is the reciprocal true? I think not. eek grin

Oh and one more question...the pink fountain idea...what % would you give that for working with my Mrs. Keep in mind I'm not the attractive and we have been married for a long while now.

Last edited by mnfish; 07/10/15 09:46 AM.
BigBuck #418171 07/10/15 09:46 AM
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Brian I love the wanna get lucky statement! LOL!

Thanks for the info. That does explain it much better. I appreciate you taking the time to do that.

I never even thought about the water travel for D.O. can be sideways? Which if you think about it is pretty stupid on my part as even a bottom fuser setup pushes the water up and then out sideways to contact the air. So thanks for taking the time to clear up my brain cramp! smile

Thanks,

RC


The only difference between a rut and a Grave is the depth. So get up get out of that rut and get moving!! Time to work!!
BigBuck #418173 07/10/15 09:56 AM
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MN,

If you are going with a pink fountain, Use lights... Just saying.


Brian

The one thing is the one thing
A dry fly catches no fish
Try not to be THAT 10%
BigBuck #418231 07/11/15 08:00 AM
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Thanks for the replies, that is helpful. Almost everyone in this area has a pond, only one has aeration that I have seen. I may wait to see if I have a problem before spending the time and money on aeration. For now I will just keep my fish numbers in check and see what happens. Some of you guys sure have some sweet ponds! Getting pond envy, may have to take another piece of the horse pasture and increase pond size.
Thanks again.

BigBuck #418247 07/11/15 09:46 AM
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Do have electric on the property? you can buy cheap air line to run from electric source (compressor) to pond a lot cheaper than running electric.

BigBuck #418259 07/11/15 11:20 AM
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I don't know that I need aeration...at least not yet. I am interested in solar power...and playing with it sounds like fun.

My pond is about 10-12 ft deep lately. My thought was to put a floating fountain in with a down tube on it. Have that tube about 8 ft long with the bottom capped and holes about 1-2 ft from the bottom. Bottom capped to not suck up muck if my water gets low. The down tube to circulate water.

With aquariums, circulating water is what I was told gets oxygen into the water (not the air bubbles flowing through it). That is why I thought sucking it from near the bottom and spraying up top would work. This is kind of what a bottom filter in an aquarium does.

Reading about ponds getting super cooled due to aeration in winter worries me...because of our hot summers (we had 100 days of 100+ temps one year). So I worry about heating the water in summer. Probably something I don't understand.

With our droughts, I worry about aeration increasing evaporation. With our dry, windy, hot, conditions, I can lose a couple inches of water from my pool in a week. Add the water seeping into the ground in the pond to that evaporation...and in theory, it will drop faster.

Friends kid me about putting a waterfall in...again, if I did, I would pull water from near the bottom.

I know NOTHING about ponds...just trying to apply what I was told about aquariums to ponds.

Feedback?

Sorry if I hijacked the thread.

Sean

Last edited by Boburk; 07/11/15 11:24 AM.
Boburk #418273 07/11/15 03:44 PM
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Circulating the water is also what gets DO in the pond water. The bubbles from bottom diffuser aeration only adds a small amount of DO. It is the water movement caused by the bubbles, moving the bottom water up to the top, where the air interfaces with the water that aerates the water.

Bottom diffuser aeration is really just a different way of pumping water. Water movement by the bubbles is the key, not the presence of the bubbles themselves.

Pumping air down to the bottom of the pond and letting the bubbles do the work of moving the water just happens to be an energy efficient way of moving water upwards.

Last edited by snrub; 07/11/15 03:47 PM.

John

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BigBuck #418279 07/11/15 06:51 PM
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Thanks Snrub. That is pretty much what I was told about aquariums...moving the water across the top. At the time I was questioning "power head" usage instead of airstones. Power heads were just water pumps...so I didn't understand how they aerated the water.

Sean


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