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Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 3
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OP
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 3 |
I am considering purchasing a piece of property and have been investigating the possibility of building a pond.
I had my topo map and soil survey ready when I met with the county NRCS agent. The creek bed only flows when it rains, but is is a blue line stream on the map. He saw that 2.2 acres of the soil where I would like to build the pond is Melvin soil. Apparently this is a hydric? soil which mean this location is likely classified as a wetland.
What are my options here? Does this mean I won't be able to legally build a pond?
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 2,386
Ambassador Field Correspondent Lunker
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Ambassador Field Correspondent Lunker
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 2,386 |
Aby, welcome to the site. Seems ta me that is a ? the agent should have answered for ya.
Do nature a favor, spay/neuter your pets and any weird friends or relatives.
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Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 3
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OP
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 3 |
Thank you sir. The NRCS agent is researching the matter for me, but he didn't sound hopeful.
I have been trying to do my own research. I believe farm ponds are exempt from state environmental regulation in TN, but I will still have to deal with the Corps of Engineers if it is indeed a wetland.
The NRCS man warned me not to talk to the state environmental agency because it would put me on their radar. How should I go about determining if the site in question is a wetland?
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Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 1,105
Member
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Member
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 1,105 |
I don't have an answer for you but sometimes this stuff is crazy. In my case I considered building a wild life pond with the state helping with the expense. It could be only 7 feet deep but some of the cost would be paid by the state. A half dozen farmers that somehow was on the permission board came out and looked, and with me even pleading said NO. So at my expense I took 5 1/2 acres out of my field and built what they rejected but 10 feet deep instead of 7. I ditched a rout to drain the water from one field to support another smaller pond besides my main one and planted the whole area into a kind of preserve for wild life. So I built what they denied me at my expense and added a wetland wildlife to the states wildlife area's.
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Joined: May 2009
Posts: 5,722 Likes: 282
Lunker
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Lunker
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 5,722 Likes: 282 |
I built 2 of my wetlands after being told the soil would not hold water. They actually support fish and have been pretty wet for about a decade. I gave up on getting financial support from Indiana. I do have a beautiful wetland that INDOT built as a mitigation for one that they destroyed. I have a second one near that one that they built rather than be accepting payment for the first one.
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 2,386
Ambassador Field Correspondent Lunker
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Ambassador Field Correspondent Lunker
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 2,386 |
Aby, you're new here and from the south so I understand your politeness. However as you continue to visit it will become obvious that I am certainly not a sir.
Do nature a favor, spay/neuter your pets and any weird friends or relatives.
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Joined: May 2003
Posts: 219
Lunker
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Lunker
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 219 |
The new "Waters of the United States Rule" which goes into affect Aug 28, 2015 will greatly expand EPA/Corps of Engineers' control of waters under the Clean Waters Act. The rule allows a very broad interpretation of all waters that might be considered possible or potential tributaries to wetland areas. 22 states are contesting this new rule in court.
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Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 3,668 Likes: 57
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Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 3,668 Likes: 57 |
The new "Waters of the United States Rule" which goes into affect Aug 28, 2015 will greatly expand EPA/Corps of Engineers' control of waters under the Clean Waters Act. The rule allows a very broad interpretation of all waters that might be considered possible or potential tributaries to wetland areas. 22 states are contesting this new rule in court. I could say so many things here, so I will say it sucks "it just sucks" how the epa can over reach Tracy
Last edited by TGW1; 07/04/15 09:37 AM. Reason: additions
Do not judge me by the politicians in my City, State or Federal Government.
Tracy
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Joined: May 2009
Posts: 5,722 Likes: 282
Lunker
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Lunker
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 5,722 Likes: 282 |
This rule will only help the Republican party get elected to more public offices, whether defeated or not in court. Now all they need are candidates that advocate for positions supported by science. BTW - I am an independent.
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Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 6,088 Likes: 96
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Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 6,088 Likes: 96 |
The really dangerous thing about the EPA to an individual land owner is they can send you a determination of violation several years after the fact. A person may not know he has done anything wrong for several years. Then if they want to make an example out of you, the fines can be many thousands of dollars a day for every day the project is in violation of the law. Might as well hand them the key to the place if they really want to push all the fines they have the authority to administer.
By crucifying an occasional person, they use fear tactics to keep everyone else afraid to do anything with their property.
They have way too broad authority, way too much power, and an individual rarely has the power or deep pockets to fight them even when the landowner is in the right.
Determinations of being out of compliance with the law can come from aerial photographs without an agent even visiting with the landowner. Then it is guilty until proven innocent.
They need their budget cut about 80 percent. The only way to kill a beast that big is to starve it.
Last edited by snrub; 07/04/15 12:57 PM.
John
I subscribe to Pond Boss Magazine
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Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 6,980 Likes: 15
Ambassador Lunker
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Ambassador Lunker
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 6,980 Likes: 15 |
The really dangerous thing about the EPA to an individual land owner is they can send you a determination of violation several years after the fact. A person may not know he has done anything wrong for several years. Then if they want to make an example out of you, the fines can be many thousands of dollars a day for every day the project is in violation of the law. Might as well hand them the key to the place if they really want to push all the fines they have the authority to administer.
By crucifying an occasional person, they use fear tactics to keep everyone else afraid to do anything with their property.
They have way too broad authority, way too much power, and an individual rarely has the power or deep pockets to fight them even when the landowner is in the right.
Determinations of being out of compliance with the law can come from aerial photographs without an agent even visiting with the landowner. Then it is guilty until proven innocent.
They need their budget cut about 80 percent. The only way to kill a beast that big is to starve it. "Can", or have???
"Forget pounds and ounces, I'm figuring displacement!"
If we accept that: MBG(+)FGSF(=)HBG(F1) And we surmise that: BG(>)HBG(F1) while GSF(<)HBG(F1) Would it hold true that: HBG(F1)(+)AM500(x)q.d.(=)1.5lbGRWT? PB answer: It depends.
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Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 6,088 Likes: 96
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Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 6,088 Likes: 96 |
Have. Numerous times. It hits the news services occasionally. If it is a big enough stink organizations supporting property rights get involved, sometimes legislators, to get the EPA to back down. Then it happens again at some later point. Been watching it happen for a number of years.
If you want examples there are quite plenty enough, but this probably not the proper place to go down that road.
John
I subscribe to Pond Boss Magazine
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Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 6,088 Likes: 96
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Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 6,088 Likes: 96 |
I don't want to clutter up this pond forum with lots of examples sprkplug, but if you are really interested just do a google search with something like "EPA fines small property owner for violations" and it will get you started. Keep in mind all that will come up likely are the ones that fetch national attention. Many of the ones that get settled are never contested and no one but maybe the neighbors hear about them.
John
I subscribe to Pond Boss Magazine
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Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 6,980 Likes: 15
Ambassador Lunker
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Ambassador Lunker
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 6,980 Likes: 15 |
I have, back when this first came up. No worries.
"Forget pounds and ounces, I'm figuring displacement!"
If we accept that: MBG(+)FGSF(=)HBG(F1) And we surmise that: BG(>)HBG(F1) while GSF(<)HBG(F1) Would it hold true that: HBG(F1)(+)AM500(x)q.d.(=)1.5lbGRWT? PB answer: It depends.
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Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 3,668 Likes: 57
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Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 3,668 Likes: 57 |
snrub I agree. The fact of the matter is, most everything this administration has done is an over reach. I could name many, but like you said, this may not be the place.
Tracy
Do not judge me by the politicians in my City, State or Federal Government.
Tracy
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