Pond Boss Forums INTRO Questions & Observations Will RES herd FHM?

Walking the pond bank yesterday I noticed a school of FHM circled up against the bank. There must have been 20 or 30 of them in about a 18" circle. Just milling around..
Then I noticed three, then four dark shadows in the deeper water a foot or so from the minnows. I'm thinking they are the RES that were stocked about two months ago.
It almost looked like they herded them up against the bank. Do RES demonstrate this type behavior? It was pretty cool to watch, until my dog jumped into the middle of it all, and everything scattered. I tried to get a picture, but it shows zero details.
I'm thinking this is like the dolphins herding the fish up on the beach, I've seen on Animal Planet. My RES, must be as smart as dolphins. Hehe

I've got a RES and FHM only pond and it sure seems like I get that type of activity as well. On calm nights you'll see groups of 30-50 FHMs surface from the water all at once like shad when being chased by schools of white bass. The only predators I have in the pond right now are RES, so I assume they are the reason.

The RES I had in my aquarium last year would start herding FHM about 25 minutes before the aquarium light went out, they had a very uncanny sense of when the lights were about to shut off.

That is really interesting. I've got a small 20'x25' grow-out pond where I recently put about 75 RES about 1-2 inches. I also put in about 350 FHMs. I just noticed something similar in the last couple of evenings. The RES are not big enough to eat the FHMs.

I've been feeding coarsely ground fish pellets that have been run though an old food processor. When I throw it in the water there is a FHM feeding frenzy. But, the RES are also eating it. During feeding, the FHMs mostly stay in the middle of the pond. The RES come to the edge of the pond to feed, on the surface, as the feed slowly sinks, and off the bottom.

This is also the first time I've ever has RES taking food.

This is super important science to document - it will benefit the entire community. Please keep your observations coming - this report from Jeff in addition to the previous data from Steve RE RES in aquarium is ground breaking stuff and was all new to me! Increased gape of RES must be part of the reason for their pisciverous nature of this Lepomis? If BG COULD do it as easily as RES, would they too?

I guess it makes sense the RES would herd and go after baitfish when more preferred foods are not abundant...

Thanks for the info. This was near sunset when I noticed them doing the herding. I think it was deliberate, and planned. Didn't get to see them take any FHM, because the dog jumped in. Hopefully I'll see it again, and get a picture.
I have YP in the pond also, but I hardly ever see them. (1200 YP, vs 150 RES)
Jeff

Rex, what would be their preferred food? I've got a feeder running in the evening, but the RES mentioned above were on the opposite bank, and the other end of the pond. (Running the feeder for 1 second at 8:00, 8:15, and 8:30)
I see a lot of snails on the ground near by. Are they the preferred food?

I have watched large BG pick off YOY LMB fry several times, I have also caught BG using 4" shiners for bait.

IIRC the preferred diet of RES is snails and other small mollusks which is why their nickname is "shellcracker."

I believe BG eat a lot more small fish than people realize. If not, why are they regularly caught on crankbaits?

I was just really surprised at how much the RES are eating in one of my grow-out ponds. I'd guess that my 50-75 tiny RES ate at least a quarter pound of fish food again this evening.

In the past, I've tried, very unsuccessfully, to grow RES in cages and aquariums. I lost nearly all of them in just a few weeks. I've found RES very difficult to raise and propagate.

I'm not sure what the difference is of not having them in a large aquarium, or having them in a cage at the end of a dock, vs., having them in a small (20'x 25') pond, along with a bunch of FHMs, but it seems to be working.

They are feeding very well on coarsely chopped 36% protein feed pellets. As far as I can tell, they are not eating the FHMs (probably due to size difference).

We are unfortunately going to be gone from the farm for a couple of weeks starting next week. I've got a good caretaker, but ...

I have some HBG in a cage in another pond, that were basically the same size as the RES when I got them several weeks ago. The HBG started feeding immediately. They have grown very noticeably. The RES just started feeding on ground-fishfeed during the last few days, but I can see daily changes between them and their relative close BG cousins.

Anyway, it sure would be great if more would post regarding their RES issues and successes.

Ken

Ken, you try the new food?

I'm not arguing BG don't whack any FHM they possibly can - they are opportunistic and I've caught many on FHM crappie fishing, however, my point is that a RES larger gape means they can prey upon a wider universe of FHM. Since they can prey upon larger size classes, this also means they will be utilizing FHM as forage more frequently compared to BG. It stands to reason that RES will be observed targeting FHM more often than BG - simply because they can. I'm assuming the same logic should hold true for HBG and GSF, too.

True. And since RES (I believe) are more bottom orientated, I think they are in the zone where FHM are more often too.

Very true on HBG. I think lepomids in general are much more likely to step into the role of predator, even if briefly and opportunistically, than many realize.

I have noticed a huge decrease in my FHM numbers now that my RES are reproducing. I think they are more predacious on minnows than BG.

PM sent a few minutes ago regarding some of my results.

The absolute best thing about the new food is that in my grow-out pond of RES and FHM -- the RES love it. They come to the surface to gobble it down until they can't gobble any more.

I've never before had any success feeding RES except with live worms!


Ken

Ken, how long have you been feeding the new stuff?

Guys, I've been wanting to start a thread about this but was still in the process of educating myself on RES further. Anyway, presently I have a RES and FHM only pond. My plan was to add SMB this fall. But what would be the likely outcome if I stick to RES and FHM only? Would I be able to control the RES via rod and reel? Would the RES eventually eliminate the FHM to a point the fish growth would diminish? One year into this my RES seem to be off the charts on growth and the FHM reproduction seems minimally impacted by RES predation. I'm curious as to the type of balance people would expect here. Maybe I'm just looking for people to push me into experimenting with this!

I unfortunately have not kept a written log. I'm thinking it is now about one week. The RES and HBG fingerlings seem to love it. The HSB, CC, HBG, and BG have started to like it. I have a koi in each pond, and they seem to like it.

Sometime back, the question was raised as to whether or not anyone had ever encountered a pond containing stunted RES. I can't be absolutely sure, but I THINK the consensus from the masses was no?

In my opinion however, I think it's possible given the right circumstances. I have caught RES that featured huge eyes, large fins, and stretched out body dynamics. But I have never caught them in numbers from the same BOW.

Of course, I also have never fished an all RES pond. (No predators)

Hmmm. I'll give it a little more time.

If you had an RES only pond, I would bet they would stunt. I had them spawn for the first time in my pond last year and I have thousands of young of year, even with predation. Albeit, not LMB predation.

EXPERIMENT, YES!

6 years ago I raised a male RES in a 150gal Rubbermaid. Porker weighed 1 & 1/4lb at 18mo. I've had 2 failed leaky ponds, the 2nd was a misunderstanding with a contractor. I've started "RES only" and "RES, a Crappie substitute pond," threads. I get on here and comb for RES only & RES/FHM pond info every few months.

I believe RES & FHM will balance themselves with no more management than LMB/BG ponds with good results in mini 1/10 to half acre ponds. But then I'm loosing my sanity out here in the wilderness.

(PS; need big bucks to put in an EPDM pond and am on financial track for $$ this Nov.'15)