Pond Boss Magazine
https://www.pondboss.com/images/userfiles/image/20130301193901_6_150by50orangewhyshouldsubscribejpeg.jpg
Advertisment
Newest Members
Shotgun01, Dan H, Stipker, LunkerHunt23, Jeanjules
18,451 Registered Users
Forum Statistics
Forums36
Topics40,902
Posts557,116
Members18,452
Most Online3,612
Jan 10th, 2023
Top Posters
esshup 28,420
ewest 21,475
Cecil Baird1 20,043
Bill Cody 15,112
Who's Online Now
2 members (anthropic, esshup), 743 guests, and 302 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 25
P
patrick Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
P
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 25
After nearly five years of waiting I'm thinking of throwing in the towel on my half acre pond. I have waited through the drought here in N.E. Oklahoma. I have waited for the dam to "settle in". I have dumped numerous hundred dollar bills (in the form of bentonite) into the water. I thought I did all the right things in constructing the pond dam, working with the local soil conservation office, hiring a reputable contractor, test holes, erosion control, etc... The dam just keeps seeping. All I have is a very small pond and a huge swamp! It has now become a question of $$$. I can have the pond filled in for less money than it will cost to attempt a drain and repair that may or may not work. It just goes to show that if mother nature wants something her way, she gets it!

Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 8,854
Likes: 1
Moderator
Ambassador
Field Correspondent
Lunker
Offline
Moderator
Ambassador
Field Correspondent
Lunker
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 8,854
Likes: 1
That's a bummer. Don't give up. Have you thought about the following possibility?

Breach the dam and dry it out for a summer.

Then get a dozer for a half a day and resculpt the area to accomodate a quarter acre pond that's just the right size for a liner.

We'll help you out anyway that we can no matter what you choose. Any one of us will help you as much as possible to get the best deal on a liner, then stock it for your dream fish. My .15 acre pond is the best fishing pond on my property. LOTS of big fish for it's size.

We'll help you any way possible!!


Holding a redear sunfish is like running with scissors.
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 3,261
D
Ambassador
Lunker
Offline
Ambassador
Lunker
D
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 3,261
patrick, is there any point in going back and reviewing for us here what kind of soils you have, and how the dam was constructed? basically if it was good clay soils, well compacted, with a cored dam, and it is still leaking that is indeed a head scratcher.

bruce's idea is very sound, scale down, control a smaller slice of mother nature.


GSF are people too!

Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 1,074
G
Member
Offline
Member
G
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 1,074
Patrick, this is fabulous forum to be able to receive advise from helpful, well inentioned, well informed folks who know what they are talking about.

Go for it and good luck...!

Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 21,475
Likes: 264
E
Moderator
Hall of Fame 2014
Lunker
Offline
Moderator
Hall of Fame 2014
Lunker
E
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 21,475
Likes: 264
Investigate , scale back , re-think , research , experiment , ask for advice , and work at it are all good --- but a PB never gives-up. In most cases people later regret giving-up as it is not good for the spirit or psyche.

Walk us through what has occurred.
















Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 25
P
patrick Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
P
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 25
Hello and thanks for the support,

The pond dam is built in soil with a good red clay content. I think the issue is the location. It is constructed on a significant hillside and is approx. 16' from the top of the dam to the deepest part of the pond. The pond fills and then the water pressure forces the water (I suspect) through the bottom of the pond. It then surfaces in the flat area below the pond. Additional clay on the bottom of the pond might seal the seepage however I don't think it will relieve the pressure exerted by my wife! She has had it with the swampy mess near what is the entry to our property as-well-as the amount of money I have spent on the project over the years. A good pond boss may never give up...but a good husband better know when to!

Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 2,365
B
Lunker
Offline
Lunker
B
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 2,365
Hi Patrick,

Is the deepest part of the pond right up against the dam? I ask that because 16' is not trivial. That's a lot pressure, and extrordinary care must be taken to make the base of the dam thick enough and the dam tall enough to help pack it down.

How old is your dam?

When the dam was built, was the clay moist or dry?

When the dam was built, was the clay tamped layer on layer?

Was the dam keyed?

Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 25
P
patrick Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
P
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 25
Hello,

The deepest part of the pond is well centered in the horse shoe shaped dam. The dam is going on five years old, however about one and a half years of that were under drought conditions. The soil was somewhat dry during construction. The base of the dam at the widest point is around sixy feet and the bowl of the pond was excavated approx. ten feet below grade. The dam was built in layers and keyed.

Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 2,365
B
Lunker
Offline
Lunker
B
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 2,365
 Quote:
Originally posted by patrick:
the bowl of the pond was excavated approx. ten feet below grade.
That makes a huge difference. 6' is minor compared to 16'.

If there's no sand or gravel beneath the dam piping water beneath it, chances are it needs compacting.

Soil is very heavy, and self compacts pretty well under its own weight. When soil is under water, the self-compaction is negated somewhat because it's much lighter when it's under water.

One way to apply pressure to the soil is to build the dam up 2-3 feet higher than needed. That will apply huge forces to the dam's base, and will help compact it. Of course you will need a large stand pipe or emergency spillway.

If water is seeping out well down the hill from the dam, you have a bigger challenge ahead.

Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 25
P
patrick Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
P
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 25
Thanks for your replies Bob,

Another factor is money. It's hard to justify spending thousands more after having already spent thousands on a pond that isn't holding water. I contacted a local fish farmer and pond contractor who suggested an additional 2' clay liner and of course said theres no guarantee that it will work. Those odds just aren't good enough to justify the additional expense. I have a two year old daughter who will need to go to college some day and the resources would be better invested on her.

Thanks,
Patrick

Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 8,854
Likes: 1
Moderator
Ambassador
Field Correspondent
Lunker
Offline
Moderator
Ambassador
Field Correspondent
Lunker
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 8,854
Likes: 1
Patrick, can you email me some photos that I can post? Maybe there's a more economical solution.


Holding a redear sunfish is like running with scissors.
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 182
S
Lunker
Offline
Lunker
S
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 182
Patrick

As Bruse says give me a photo or a address where i can get a sat picture If you want I will come down there personally to see what the problem is and rectify it. I have an associate Jeff Shields who is working on a wetland project down there I believe he is across the state from you I might be able to swing him over. I will not bore you with my house project but get down to service the client. Here in upstate new york we deal with challenges that no pond builder can imagine . Now let me be fare and say also the same problems to our other Pond Carvers James Bandelt in Minnesota Pete Neske in Kalispell Montana. Fred Van Lenten Wisconsin. Dominick Breeze who taught me something about a dozer. I have a list of others but the man who is a master is a gentleman who carved a 4 acre pond in South Carolina and showed Big Don from Freeport Maine a Thing or two Pasquale he is a mastercarver.

Sorry had to vent feel like Jerry McGuire
Had a Whole lot more to say but this should throw me under the bus. WDCHUCK


Scott Trava
Catskill Pond
http://catskillpond.com
scott@catskillpond.com
Returning Catskill Waters To A Simpler Time
EST. 1923
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 2,365
B
Lunker
Offline
Lunker
B
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 2,365
 Quote:
Originally posted by patrick:
Thanks for your replies Bob,

Another factor is money. It's hard to justify spending thousands more after having already spent thousands on a pond that isn't holding water. Patrick
Patrick,

If your dam is leaking, it may not cost much if anything.

What level is the water coming from? Is it coming from the same level as the bottom of the dam? Or is it re-surfacing down the hill from the dam?

Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 25
P
patrick Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
P
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 25
Hello,

Thanks for all of the replies and offers! After looking at it one more time (I've looked at it a thousand times) it looks like the water may be seeping under the dam at ground level.

Patrick

Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 2,365
B
Lunker
Offline
Lunker
B
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 2,365
 Quote:
Originally posted by patrick:
After looking at it one more time (I've looked at it a thousand times) it looks like the water may be seeping under the dam at ground level.
Patrick,

If that's the case, it should very easy to fix.

If your dam is low... that is to say, the top of the dam is only a foot or 2 from the water line... the dam may need compacting.

You indicated that the soil was on the dry side when the dam was constructed. Dry soil, even clay, does not compact well. Water seeps into it and "floats" it, preventing compaction. If you can add weight to the top of the dam, it will compact it very quickly. Building up soil on top of it is the best way to add weight. A foot or 2 of soil added to the top of the dam adds a huge amount of pressure at the bottom where it is apparently leaking.

If your dam is already well above the water line, all bets are off.


Link Copied to Clipboard
Today's Birthdays
cro, HC1968
Recent Posts
Relative weight charts in Excel ? Calculations?
by esshup - 03/29/24 01:06 AM
pond experience needed
by esshup - 03/29/24 12:45 AM
New pond middle TN: establishing food chain?
by Bill Cody - 03/28/24 07:57 PM
Happy Birthday Bob Lusk!!
by FireIsHot - 03/28/24 07:33 PM
Working on a .5acre disaster, I mean pond.
by PRCS - 03/28/24 06:39 PM
Fungus infection on fish
by nvcdl - 03/28/24 06:07 PM
Can anyone ID these minnows?
by Dylanfrely - 03/28/24 05:43 PM
1 year after stocking question
by esshup - 03/28/24 04:48 PM
Yellow Perch Spawn 2024
by H20fwler - 03/28/24 04:29 PM
New 2 acre pond stocking plan
by LANGSTER - 03/28/24 03:49 PM
Paper-shell crayfish and Japanese snails
by esshup - 03/28/24 10:39 AM
Newly Uploaded Images
Eagles Over The Pond Yesterday
Eagles Over The Pond Yesterday
by Tbar, December 10
Deer at Theo's 2023
Deer at Theo's 2023
by Theo Gallus, November 13
Minnow identification
Minnow identification
by Mike Troyer, October 6
Sharing the Food
Sharing the Food
by FishinRod, September 9
Nice BGxRES
Nice BGxRES
by Theo Gallus, July 28
Snake Identification
Snake Identification
by Rangersedge, July 12

� 2014 POND BOSS INC. all rights reserved USA and Worldwide

Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5