Pond Boss Forums INTRO Questions & Observations Please ID YOY

Was unclogging a feeder the other day and noticed some YOY hitting feed on the surface. I managed to catch one and cannot definitively determine what it is. My newly renovated pond was stocked last August with CNBG, RES, and FHM. Please tell me what you think.

Not an expert Charlie but it looks like a RES to me. Maybe somebody more familar with them will chime in.

The picture is kind of washed out and would be better if the fins were spread out.

But the mouth size looks awfully big, the white tipping on the lower fins, the pinkish translucent bit on the end of the opercular tab, and the shape makes me think a GSF or a hybrid with GSF in it.

Maybe not what you wanted to hear.

Take a look at some of the pics in these two threads and see if they do not look familiar to what you are looking at.

100% GSF

GSF

I'm with snrub. Pure GSF or GSF hybrid.

That would be my guess as well, let me eat dinner and I will dig up some similar sized RES pictures for comparison.

Here are some RES I got from a traveling fish truck. (roll eyes)

Top two are actually RES, bottom two are pure GSF or HBG.

Charlie,

How big were the CNBG and RES when you stocked them in August?

Well Gents,
If you are correct, then that is unexpected and somewhat disappointing news as I originally stocked CNBG & RES (as well as minnows). My forage base was small in size (2-3") when I stocked last fall. When I found these specimens, I was wondering how they could have gotten off a spawn before winter. It seems to be making sense now. Yes, I also noticed the mouth was a bit too big for a BG or RES. Now, I've got other questions.

I kept these fish and have them in a small tank. Their pigment is returning. I can shoot you a better pic shortly. Thank you, for your help. 

Bill,
they were 2-3" long...

Charlie,

Try to get a pic with the fins extended.

I don't know if this helps or not....

Hard for me to tell from that picture.

I had the same luck as Shorty with the fish truck. Lots of GSF and/or hybrids mixed in with what was supposed to be RES.

I got replacement RES and put in a different pond along with some CNBG (my sediment pond with no other fish in it). Now I have GSF in it. I did not check every fish but looked very closely at the bags to ensure all fish looked alike. Problem is with 1"-2" fish, at that small size it is easy to mis-identify. At least for me it is. So either there were some GSF again in the stocking fish, or they entered the pond in some other fashion. The only other fish put in that pond were 4 adult RES last fall that I caught out of the big pond and I'm pretty certain I did not mis-identify those 6-8" fish. So who knows where the GSF came from for sure. I've been trapping them with minnow traps and removing them. I'm not too worried about them because in my main pond I have such a population of BG that there is no chance for the GSF getting control of the pond. Where they really cause problems is if the GSF get established before the other forage fish and even predators get established. That large mouth and aggressive nature can play havoc on the rest of the stocking plan. Where my predators and forage fish are well established in my main pond (which the sediment pond empties into), I'm not so worried about it. I will try to keep their numbers down in the sediment pond though, at least until my RES and CNBG get off a good spawn in that pond. I actually like the GSF genes and before finding out I had GSF in this sediment pond, considered the idea of putting in one adult gravid GSF female just so I could get some RES/GSF hybrids. I sure will not do that now. Maybe I will get some hybrids from the current GSF in there. Eventually some small LMB will swim upstream via the overflow from my main pond and this sediment pond will have predators in it. Until that happens, I'm using it as a forage pond and brood pond for RES.

Edit: I did put FHM from my forage pond in this sediment pond also, but no GSF in my forage pond so not introduced via the FHM stocking. I check all of them as they were put in the pond.

Stickem, you might want to invest in a couple of the minnow traps like in the thread linked below. The metal ones work best for me.

Small GSF will readily go into a minnow trap baited with fish food or dog food (the large dog food pellets work good because they are small enough to drop into the end opening but large enough so they don't fall out the trap mesh).

BG will also go in, but the GSF seem to really be attracted to the feed more than the BG, so if you have small GSF around, you will find them in the minnow traps. They will even eat the smaller minnows while in the trap (have saw minnow tails hanging out the GSF mouth with the minnow being 3/4 the length of the GSF).

Minnow trap thread

Edit: don't put the trap in very deep water. Close to the shore and the top only covered by a few inches of water. I don't catch nearly as many minnows or GSF if I set the trap too deep or too far from shore. Check it anywhere from a half hour to an hour after setting it for the most trapped. But I often just check them the next day and that works too. But some fish may have wondered back out. Throw it out slightly deeper than you want, and pull it back in with a rope so that it ends up parallel with the shore line.

snrub,
I'm sure not trying to blame anyone with regards to the recent GSF gene pool introduction to my pond. First, I wanted to identify the fish type before moving forward. I too, had entertained the thought of introducing GSF to my pond, but wanted to have my CB LMB established first...at their initial small size, I wanted a little insurance policy against predation by the GSF. Now, going forward, nothing really changes in my world. I'll just go forward and deal with it. Maybe as these YOY grow a little larger, their physical characteristics will become more pronounced and I'll be able to see exactly what iI have. Thanks, again for your time...much appreciated!
Charlie

Funny, you mentioned traps. I actually caught these fish in a floating turtle trap that I had built and set out to thin out my turtle population. The trap is tied to one of the feeders legs in the shallow end. The fish managed to get in the trap in pursuit of pellets, but for some reason can't manage their way out.

stickem', since you are putting CB LMB in there, I wouldn't worry about it. The GSF will act as smaller LMB in regards to what they eat, but their more fusiform shape in regards to BG, will make them a slightly bigger target for LMB. Just think of them as a different forage base for the LMB.

If you don't have a good guess on where they came from, I'd just stock additional fish to make up for them. i.e. if you think they came in with the RES, guesstimate on what percentage they are, and bump the RES population. Now's the time to bump the RES/CNBG population before the CBLMB get larger.

esshup,
...understood. Thing is, these fish are the results of a spawn, as I haven't stocked any fish (forage or predator) since last Aug/Sept. (except for the CB Bass yesterday). I didn't think the little 2-3" BG & RES that I stocked last summer/fall were big enough to pull off a spawn before winter. Obviously, something was....I agree, more forage for the predators. I guess I was more concerned with having some big GSF in the pond working my CB Bass over. I'm going to grow a couple of these out in a tank here at home. It will be interesting what I've got. Thanks again, Charlie

I like to keep a minnow trap in the water to monitor YOY forage fish just to see what is out there, even if I just dump them back in the same water. The minnow trap will not tell you the quantity because some species will readily go into the trap for feed and others more likely stumble in by accident. But I even get a few RES in them.

I get BG, FHM, GS, GSF, BH, RES, etc. The traps seem to be particularly effective catching small GSF and BH because of their propensity to like feed and their fusiform shape.

...with that said, I believe I will put together a minnow trap, as well...to, like you say, "to see what's out there." Not really concerned with how many YOY I have, predators will take care of the numbers soon...just trying to figure out where they came from and about when.

I think you will find it interesting. I've even caught a few grass shrimp in with the minnows.

A word of warning: I left the traps put together in the shed and caught a snake and left one on the bank to let the FA die off of the trap and caught a snake there also. Caught a frog once that way. So if you don't want to catch unwanted things, take them apart when not in use.

snrub,
I can truly see the value in that....thanks again, for your help, suggestions, and pearls of wisdom....lol. More will be revealed....

I see that my mystery spawn is taking on more GSF characteristics. Hopefully, their spawn will be added forage for the predators.

Charlie,

Did you get those warmouth yet? GSF x Warmouth should be one fun catch!

Hmmmmm....No Forum acronym for Warmouth?