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FIRST THE GOOD: I live in the foothills of the Blue Ridge Mtns in South Carolina. A few years ago I bought close to 30 acres that is located a 45 minute drive from our house. On this 30 acres is a 7 acre pond that is 100% mine. No part of the pond is on any other persons property. There is also a 700 square foot cabin on the property that we completely renovated 2 years ago. 2 bedrooms, full bathroom, big kitchen, den/fireplace room and a wraparound porch. A huge plus is that the pond use to be 18 acres, but the family who owned it 30 years ago lowered the water level by choice. I have the green light to raise the water level back up if I want. Only a couple of issues to deal with to start the process of turning it back into a 15 to 18 acre lake. When we found this property, I thought my dream had come true of owning my own private pond to manage all myself.

NOW THE BAD: The pond sits in a valley surrounded by mountains. The properties connected to ours is not just vacant land, so we have neighbors that live on smaller lots and further up into the hills. A % of the people are not good. They have long track records of arrest and dealing drugs/meth, theft, etc. We even had all the wiring stolen out of our cabin before we had the chance of putting a security system on it. Then the rest of the people seem to be nice law abiding citizens.

My big problem is that both the good and the not so good people all feel as if my pond is theirs and they can do whatever they want on my property. The person I bought it from had put up a barbed wire fence around the pond part of our property with multiple nice gates and a shelter for his horses. Within a year of us buying it, we now have multiple areas where the fence has been torn down, all the big metal gates have been stolen, one guy put a horse on our property, tons of signs of 4 wheelers tearing up our land around the pond, a shed behind the cabin was broken into and anything of use was stolen and more. Every time I put up No Trespassing signs, within a couple of weeks they've all been torn down. 4 times I've gone out there and had guys in jon boats fishing in my pond. I've looked at people nicely and said they can't fish in the pond anymore or trespass. They look at me and say "my family has been living around here for generations and we've always used this pond and you can't stop us!"

So I am at a loss. My dream has become a nightmare, from these people that don't abide by the law and tell you that to your face. We've had cops come out multiple times, when we've had the cabin and shed broken into, but they have no answer. They can't be my pond security guard. I am so close to being able to own a 15 to 18 acre lake that would be 100% mine, but these people have ruined it. I would love to hear any and all feedback you might can share as to what you might think I can do. Maybe share your own similar experiences and how you've handled it. Am I fighting a losing battle and just need to look for another pond to buy?

We have just been contacted by a real estate agent that has a person from New York that wants to buy a pond property here. I know this agent, so they asked if we might be interested in selling. The NY guy saw pics of our pond/cabin and loves what he sees. What to do, what to do!?! Sorry to get so long in this messages. Thanks for any feedback you can share.

Below are a few photos of the pond and a photo of the fishing cabin.








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So if you get pics of the tresspassers via security cameras how can the local law enforcement not help you? I'm pretty sure trespassing is a crime in all 50 states, not to mention vandalism, theft, etc.

Now with that said if you have the chance to sell this place at a profit and find something closer to home and/or not surrounded by malcontents I might lean that direction if it were me.

The saying 'good fences make good neighbors' only applies if you're there to monitor the fence and they don't just cut it down when you're not in residence.


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I had the same problem when I bought my place. I took care of it with some personal risk. I am not suggesting that you take the same path, but I felt that I did not work for what I had to have it stolen. Be sure that you can back up whatever you do. I made it clear in person that I was the owner and they were not welcome to trespass. If you are not willing to take these personal risks, then you will likely deal with your present situation for a along time. I cannot emphasize enough that this is dangerous business and I am not recommending it to anyone else.

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Contact your local game Warden.
Buy a Trail timer camera that texts you pictures.
I use this one but there are many to chose from
http://www.trailcampro.com/hcospartangocamnoglowverizonreview.aspx

When you get a picture of a tresspasser, call the game warden and have him ticket them.

It starts out as a small fine but grows to be very expensive if they get caught a second time and the losers know it.

All you have to do is catch a couple and press charges where they know you will do it.
They will find another place to fish

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Drue, I'm sorry to hear about all the trouble. It's terrible when others impose their will upon you, with no regard for your thoughts on the matter whatsoever.

In my opinion, you need to decide how far you're willing to take this, factoring in the level of support you can reasonably expect from the local law. Absentee ownership can be a heartache, and dealing with those who've "always done it this way", and have lived there longer than you, can be tough. Without the help of law enforcement, and given your absentee status, I think your options are limited. Certainly don't want to see the situation escalate to violence, and if reasoning is out of the question, and it sounds like it may be, then you have some tough choices to make.

Here's a crazy outlandish thought.. you mention enlarging the lake? Forgive me for what I'm about to suggest, but what about draining the lake first, then doing the additional dirtwork needed to make the lake into what you want? Remove the temptation? Any chance you intend to move onto the property? Leaving the lake drained, and living there for a spell might discourage some folks?

Of course there's always the option of selling...you might come out smelling like a rose, with enough cash to buy a piece of property that makes you forget about this place altogether. Never hurts to put a high price on something....all they can say is no. Or maybe yes wink .

Either way I feel for you, and wish you luck!


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If we accept that: MBG(+)FGSF(=)HBG(F1)
And we surmise that: BG(>)HBG(F1) while GSF(<)HBG(F1)
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Drue, I had similar bad things happen with the person we bought our dream property from....He sold us the land, yet felt it was still his to do with anytime he pleased, I approached him about his son shooting up some things while squirrel hunting....his reply was Boys will be boys and then later, blocked our access...that became a long, expensive legal battle we eventually lost.

My wife and I a couple years ago discussed how we would view our dream land IF we gained legal access to it again. We both decided, no matter what happened, we would never feel safe at home or that our dream was ours and never in danger....we sold, at a huge financial loss!

Our only gain is that now, when we drive near the property that was 2 hours from our home, we don't get physically ill at all the pain we endured.



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If you are an absentee land owner, you can only spend a small amount of time there....do you want to spend it patrolling your property knowing those that live there can and do disrespect your rights? Even if you gain a conviction on one or two, they will just be on notice you have cameras up and be more careful...possibly vindictive.



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Dru4, you've been around on the forum for a real long time, so I'm sure you've seen some of the lengthy discussions on the topic.

You should try and do a good estimation of how many loser individuals are trespassing on your land.

I'm an absentee owner, and I have a guy I pay $10/hour to watch over the place a bit. It's usually about $300 or so a month. He does run off people.

Last week I got a letter from him, and it seems a local church group has found my property to be an enjoyable place, even with the no trespass signs!!! So my caretaker went up there and let them know to not come on my property anymore.

At this point, I believe you can only reduce it, but never really eliminate it when you are absentee.


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I have had a life long experience with trespassers, grew up here and still here. Saw my Dad fight it the whole time he was in charge. We put up signs, they tear 'em down. My Dad would call the police in to take them away... But, no signs up, they said they had no idea. Dad wouldn't prosecute, he was to nice. There are some real good stories to tell on this history. Don't hurt to have a reputation that your a bit off kilter wink It was fun listening to stories being told by kids in school, not knowing who I was.

My turn to deal with it now. Put up signs, down they come. I called the cops every time they came down. Make a report. They said this needed to go on for a while to have a "track record". Keep receipts to prove its being done. Finally the sheriff said enough, we believe you. Up went a few fences, they cut 'em down. More reports every time. Then I finally caught one, and yes I prosecuted. By this time, I had developed a pretty good relationship with the sheriff, not the patrols. He said I needed to prosecute, (the patrol felt sorry for the trespasser mad, afterall he didn't fully grasp how long and how bad the problem was). If I didn't, the dept would start to get tired of doing their job and yet I wouldn't come thru for them to see it to the end. I prosecuted. The word must have spread like wildfire that I was serious, hardly any troubles. Now I make it a point to go around and recheck the signs, and yes they stay up. But if something happens, I know the signs are there to back me up.

My point is to be diligent. Definitely be afraid of retaliation. I would be more so in your case because of absentee owner. We have to decide all that stuff individually. You need to decide whether or not you want to be liked by the area residents. I want to be liked by those who believe in doing the right thing. I'm also proud that I carry on the tradition of being a bit "off", or so it appears,...or am I.

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Good post FnC. I hope you continue to have your property stay private. You earned it.


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You might consider renting out the cabin, or better yet, set up a mobile home to rent out. Or maybe, set up an RV or mobile home lot and rent that out.... Surely, an onsite resident would deter trespassers.


Nice looking place, it'd be a shame to have to sell it.


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Originally Posted By: RAH
I had the same problem when I bought my place. I took care of it with some personal risk. I am not suggesting that you take the same path, but I felt that I did not work for what I had to have it stolen. Be sure that you can back up whatever you do. I made it clear in person that I was the owner and they were not welcome to trespass. If you are not willing to take these personal risks, then you will likely deal with your present situation for a along time. I cannot emphasize enough that this is dangerous business and I am not recommending it to anyone else.
We had to resort to this as well. it got nasty and i wouldnt do it again because it put my wife and lil girl in harms way ,, but have to admit it worked and i got a few cuts and bruises to show for it but never had a problem again .

with that said either get a neighbor who can and will handle things while your away or just start over else where .


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As usual, this will be one of my long posts.

I feel for you. We experienced a somewhat similar situation when drug dealers, and all that goes with them, took over the area where we had more than just a weekend place. It was close enough to where we worked, that we would frequently go there to spend the evenings and nights. We spent most weekends and holidays there. Our plan was to retire there. We became a part of the community through volunteer/civic organizations and through a local church.

The neighborhood started out very nice. We had 12 acres that was divided by a dirt road. We had a pond, with plans for more.

The elderly lady who owned the property adjacent to, and across the road from our property, invited her granddaughter and five kids to move in with her after her husband passed away. The granddaughter's husband was in prison on a variety of charges.

There was never any proof that the granddaughter and her new boyfriend killed the grandmother, but it was a suspicious drowning of an 83 year-old wheelchair-bound lady. Her body was cremated a few hours after finding her face down in shallow water, with her wheel chair on shore.

The granddaughter inherited the property after the death. Just down the road were two similar situations where elderly relatives let younger relatives (late teens into early 20s) live in farm houses the owners were not using.

It became an absolute nightmare. Near the end of our dead-end road, a powerline right-of-way was turned into a road used by the drug dealers, into a very nasty subdivision. We witnessed beatings in our front yard. We were worried that a murdered girlfriend of one from this group was sunk in the pond behind our property. It turned out that she wouldn't sink with four concrete blocks tied to her body, so they took her body to the property of one of our friends, where her body was discovered 3-4 years later in a clogged culvert he was cleaning out. He had seen it there over the 3rd or 4th winter after the murder, suspecting it was a deer carcass.

I spent many overnights with the sheriff, deputies, and state police officers when they would setup road check points with their cars on both sides of the road on my property. My background role was to identify vehicles moving in and out of what should have been a dead-end road.

I was threatened. I was subjected to a lot of negative activities on my property. I cannot even begin to list the terror we went through. I put in a pretty expensive security system that could be monitored by the sheriff's department.

The sheriff told me I could defend myself. I was never outside without either my 12-gauge shotgun or a big softball bat, unless law enforcement was in our immediate area. The law enforcement individuals would ask me to place my weapons in their cars whenever they were present. They also would secure my gun locker inside our house -- with our permission.

My wife and I decided to buy another place. There was a major sting operation about the same time. Many of the druggies, murderers, and thugs were arrested, or they fled the area. A number of properties were confiscated and auctioned. My property was purchased by one of the new owners. We were out of there.

We basically broke even in the sale. We found a property that is about 4 miles away (as the crow flies) and about 8 miles by road. The property is about 25 acres, and had one pond. I've added a few more ponds.

But, the big thing is the peace-of-mind we now have. There is really only one way in to our present property, and one way out. I quickly pissed off all the neighbors who fished and bucket-stocked the pond, and used the property for 4-wheeling and horseback riding. I called in favors from my law enforcement contacts from our previous place. To this day, I do a lot of volunteering that works closely our Dept. of Natural Resources (DNR) biologists, which introduced me to many in the law enforcement group ("game wardens").

It probably took about three years to mostly clear our present property of trespassers. It helped us make many new friends who were also fighting these issues.

Yes, I'm known as that old grumpy bast**d who won't let anyone fish or hunt on his property -- which isn't quite accurate.

I'm also known as the guy who hosts fishing parties for kids and the elderly, and who works with local hunters to provide a lot of high quality venison each year to the elderly and poor. We make pastrami, the equivalent of corned beef (venison style), sausage, ground venison, and many good cuts. I've prepared as many as 14 deer in one season.

My fight has all been worth it. It is very difficult to even begin to estimate how much has been returned to us by the community. It is far in excess of what we've given. My wife and I have to be very careful about saying anything about any project we might be planning. Before we know it, we'll have people here, with whatever equipment, tools, and supplies are needed, and who are ready to start the project.

Good luck in your quest. Some days it might seem impossible. But, people are very big-hearted everywhere in America. Staying and fighting can work. Moving can work.

Ken


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If you have a buyer and can break even SELL IT. Walk away and find something else. Seriously not worth that type of headache and it could easily get much worse if you start "going after" these people.

I don't like the idea of "quitting" and letting them "win" but you can't change losers/druggies/criminals.

Good luck and I hope whatever path you choose goes well.

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Originally Posted By: Sunil
Dru4, you've been around on the forum for a real long time, so I'm sure you've seen some of the lengthy discussions on the topic.

You should try and do a good estimation of how many loser individuals are trespassing on your land.

I'm an absentee owner, and I have a guy I pay $10/hour to watch over the place a bit. It's usually about $300 or so a month. He does run off people.

Last week I got a letter from him, and it seems a local church group has found my property to be an enjoyable place, even with the no trespass signs!!! So my caretaker went up there and let them know to not come on my property anymore.

At this point, I believe you can only reduce it, but never really eliminate it when you are absentee.


Sunil -- Lynda and I have a lot going on this summer. But, maybe come fall, my younger son and/or my 20 year old grandson could start going up there on a semi-regular basis. I know my son and grandson would really enjoy it, and none of us would be intimidated by trespassers or those who live on the public road leading to your property. We may just have to check with our friendly local Pond Boss legal beagle friend to see what we can legally do.

Lynda and I were in the close-by area near your place for two separate funerals in the last two years for relatives of friends who you have met. I didn't realize how many people we know whose families have lived within about a 10 mile radius of your pond going back to the late 1700s and early 1800s.

Ken


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Adding some insight to living with, and experiencing the fears your property is being violated......

I'm a fairly little guy, but not typically the type of person that backs down when pushed (a surprise to some, I know laugh ), but a comment my wife made one day was the deciding factor for me that we needed to sell our land. My wife is a very caring, gentle woman, but one day after she was looking at pictures of our kids enjoying fishing and playing on our land, she said ..."If we ever get access again, the first thing I want you to do is teach me how to shoot every gun we own, because if I ever see that SOB on our land, I want to be able to shoot the SOB!" What shocked me most is she knows how to shoot, but hates it. Another persons calloused ways had made my wife angry enough that she was not only willing to go after him, she wanted to.



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I agree with getting a caretaker that you trust, and check with Fish and Game and the Sheriff and see if he can also be your "agent" which means the caretaker is calling them if there are trespassers and prosecuting. Without teeth, the authorities won't do a thing.

As others have pointed out, it helps to be known as someone that is a bit off, and target practicing on the property will only help your side of things. wink

But, the flip side of the coin is that if the offer for the property is good, maybe another, better property can be found.


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or.....get some ...Danger!!! No Fishing or Swimming! Water is Contaminated!!! Seek Immediate Medical Attention if Exposed!!!... signs and post them. Make sure you alert local law enforcement and health department of your plan.

And then add a weird colored pond dye to the pond

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Another vote for selling it, hopefully for a small profit, and moving on. You'll never be able to fully enjoy your property always wondering what will be stolen, broken, burned, etc. when you return. I'm certain there are other places you can be just as happy without all the headache. A lot of good suggestions have been presented here, if you had no choice, but you do. Best of luck in whatever you decide.
Fellow absentee land owner.

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I have often thought about a non leathal trap like setting a lazy boy up with soft full body grips and sends an alarm to you or local authorities ?? just a thought and I dont have a proto-tyoe yet. Buy some plastic skelletons and hang them with clothes on or barley bury them ?? guard geese? or Guard Llamas ?

Another vote for sell the property.

There is electric on the property right?? is there cable and Phone, If so setting up security might not be that bad.


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Two ways to go about this, broken window theory or make some friends.

I think we all know what the broken window theory is, don't allow even the slightest infringement, report all, prosecute all, don't allow anything to slide. Doesn't sound like many have had results with this without going through emotional drama that drains ones enjoyment of what they love.

You could make a friend of a couple of these people. I have chosen to do this on my place. I do not kick of trespassers. Found a guy illegally hunting turkeys and told him it was my place but I wouldn't be hunting turkey that year, could I hunt deer on his land? He was cordial and said his land was only big enough for him to hunt so he couldn't make the trade, never saw him again.

Find a couple of them and tell them they seem to be enjoying he place nicely and you can't be there all the time. If they help to keep people out, don't make any messes, assure the signs stay up, you'll let them do specified activities on the place. All you ask in return is the help monitoring it and perhaps some help with trail maintenance and some other small tasks. I have made many friends with this tact. This is more the Dale Carnegie method.

Broken window or Dale Carnegie, both different approaches but a similar ending if done right.


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When an absentee landowner near me had multiple complaints about all the shooting in his woods during deer season (not from me), he kicked everybody out and came and asked me what to do. I told him to find one hunter and trade hunting rights for his patrolling of the land. He tried it his way first but it did not work. He then tried getting a single hunter on the land. The guy that he chose made some enemies, but he made some friends too, like me. If he needs to track a deer into my land, he calls me and we help him not only track it, but drag it out. That land has been trouble free for over a decade. I also bought some land adjacent to my place a couple years back and made it clear that I now owned it. Folks know who I am, and the trespassing stopped when I signed the papers to purchase it. I take my ownership seriously, but I may turn up dead some day as well. That is the price of freedom. I like timshuffin's idea of finding someone local to look after trespassers in exchange for exclusive access.

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Drue, being an absentee landowner can be tough for the very reasons that you have listed. You have choices to make. Either sell the place which isn't a bad option or try to control access. Controlling access can be a never ending battle. My problems were like yours with the same predator/prey relationship but mostly ended when a lot of people agreed that I was a complete azzhole. I know that it shouldn't be that way but it is and, in some cases, what we consider civilization can have a thin veneer. I've outlasted and/or outlived some of them. Some have changed their opinion of me and others haven't.

If you decide to keep it:

I would PERSONALLY install the game cams that send a pic to your PC. I would have several of them strategically placed and move them frequently. Talk to both the GW and the Sheriff and forward the pics to him/her. Stay in touch and don't forget that the sheriff always needs financial help at election time. Some of the cams will be stolen and/or damaged. That's part of the price. If the Law seems or is reluctant, sell it and move on.


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I haven't seen this mentioned, but I'm sure you all know about it, but purple paint is the same as a no trespassing sign. It can't be taken down, and it's just as illegal to cross beyond the purple paint as it is to go past a no trespassing sign. We are lucky where our place is. We are absentee owners, but have become part of the community. Lots of good neighbors that are all full timers. They watch our place when we aren't around. I haven't put up a sign, paint, fence, or gate. So far, but I'm always looking for signs that someone has been around.


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If you have trees, put the signs up high using a ladder. Trespassers tend to be lazy, that is one possible reason that they did not work and buy their own land. I never heard on the purple thing?

Update: Purple paint is only used in 4 states.

http://www.signs.com/blog/state-by-state-guide-to-no-trespassing-laws-signage/

Last edited by RAH; 06/09/15 07:40 AM.
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