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Originally Posted By: DonoBBD
Originally Posted By: Cecil Baird1
I read somewhere that some FA is the sign of a healthy pond.


I think it really shows allot of dissolved acid nutrients. If you can tie up the excessive acid nutrients with lime they will sink to the bottom and become plant food and not algae food.

I hand spread hydrated lime on our FA and it gos away fast.

Cheers Don.


Don, hydrated lime is extremely caustic, and kills the algae by breaking it down at the cellular level. Bad thing is, it will also kill many other critters caught in the pH change.



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Originally Posted By: Cody Veach
I love being at my ponds and I know what I do does not work for every one. When I refurbished, " mucked out" my big pond on my moms property I spent a year non stop removing FA next year I had chare so thi k you could walk on it. Pulled it out non stop. Past two years the pond has been pristine . Added grass carp and have aeration but I believe as I removed the plants nonstop I removed what ever nutrient load that was in the pond. I can't argue with the success .


Well I'm getting a start on it. This is a picture of my first attempt of FA going to a compost pile. I might have got 10% of it. No way I'm going to even keep up with it, let alone get ahead of it. I have a shallow area where there is gravel and rocks for spawning that is covered with FA. Pretty sure the fish will not use it as is, so will try to remove the FA at least from this shallow area. Water is down 15" so this area that is normally 2-4' deep is pretty shallow and a good time to remove the FA. When I raked the FA up, was a black stinky layer under it. Area looked pretty good with the FA gone when the sediment stirred up settled out.

Most of my water is deep enough FA should not be a problem except around the shore line. I may try DonoBBD's hydrated lime idea around part of the shore line. Will not remove the nutrients that way though, just recycle them.

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Last edited by snrub; 04/08/14 09:53 PM.

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Ok, observations to date.

After raking out some of the worst areas of FA in the spring, early summer brought lots of it to the surface and blown by the wind to various parts of the pond (depend on which way the wind was blowing).

Having had back surgery 3 times previous, I'm a little selective of what I do with a shovel/rake/pitchfork. Doctor said he did not want to see me again because the next time it would not be as much "fun". So I decided to go the "John Monroe" route of letting the pond evolve to see what happened, as opposed to raking lots and lots of FA. I really appreciate John's observations.

The early portion that I raked out, brought along with the algae a lot of various critters (nymphs, etc) along with some tiny BG fry. Since this pond is still in its early stages it seemed important to me to have good spawns and fry survival. Having no established rooted weeds yet (that I knbow of or can observe) it seemed the FA was taking the place of weeds as habitat for these small fish. So I left the FA in the pond. Fortunately the wind kept the coverage of the surface down to 10-20% of pond surface area. Ugly, but tolerable.

As I've watched the FA die and float to the surface, channels have developed and I can clearly see lots of small FHM fry using it as refuge. Earlier this year we had an explosion of FHM. Adults and half grown schools. The half grown schools sometimes were 10' in diameter. Now I hardly see an adult FHM. None chasing pellets like earlier. I think the LMB (9-10" back then) and adult BG (8") have done a number on them. But I have gobs and gobs of FHM fry interlaced in the FA beds. Also lots of BG fry seen around the plumes of FA held up by gas bubbles and floating dead FA (kind of look roughly like............. nuclear explosion mushroom cloud????).

So it is my observation, that by leaving the FA, I will have FHM for another year (maybe) than I otherwise might. I also expect to have BG fry to live to larger size for LMB food than they would have with a bare shore line. So for me, while FA sucks to look at, I think it has served a purpose till other natural cover develops. My non-expert opinion. Would love to hear other opinions and/or facts.

FA in ponds reminds me of something I have observed in the ocean for many years. I had the pleasure to scuba dive the same wreck (specifically sunk for an artificial reef) for about 7 years, every year and most years both summer and winter (near Peurto Morelos, Mexico). My first dive on it was only a few months after it had been sunk (maybe 4 months). The first thing to colonize it was a red algae (more green towards the base and red on the tips). The whole ship was covered in this 6" long algae (I guess you could say it was filamentous, because it had length). Looked like a big fuzzy ship. I've also noticed this algae on reefs that have been torn up by hurricanes. It is the first thing (that I observe at least) that colonizes the bare, exposed, broken limestone. I watched this underwater wreck "evolve" like I imagine what John Monroe describes his pond evolving. Although I have not went diving on it for a few years not, the last time I did there was none of this algae left. The algae had taken advantage of the nutrients available and colonized the boat, then gave way as more complex organisms made the boat their home. Now it is encrusted with hard and soft corals, mussels or clams, sponges, etc.

I do not know, but I suspect FA plays a similar role in a pond (and would be happy to hear others experiences or expert observations). It appears to me, at least at this time, that the FA will prepare the pond for the next progression of colonization which will likely include rooted weeds.

So while the stuff really looks sucky, it appears to me it plays a natural role in the progression of a pond. Not saying that we have to abide by any natural progression (because they make algaecide's and other things to modify the natural progression), but if we do likely the FA will eventually be less of a problem to be replaced by whatever the next thing is that replaces it.

It appears to me, from the standpoint of the fish populations reproduction and food chain, the FA has served a positive purpose.

Would like to hear others experiences so I know what mother nature is going to throw at me next. grin Pond was built 2012 and initially stocked Mar 2013 with FHM and BG (with a few RES). LMB, CC and some more RES late fall of 2013.

Last edited by snrub; 08/18/14 04:03 PM.

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One other positive thing about FA. Before I had FA, if I threw out floating pellets on a windy day, some might end up on the bank from wave action. Now it just floats up to the edge of the FA and stays there till eaten or sinks and is eaten below.

Probably not enough reason to like the stuff, but hey, it is one positive. crazy


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Interesting observation about the ship. However, a pond is a much smaller, enclosed, ecosystem. As the FA dies it rots and fertilizes the next generation. You see the results in the black muck. Once it becomes an infestation, it rules the pond as a perfect survival model wherever sunlight can penetrate. I think of it as the Johnson Grass of the pond. But it's not as bad as the duck weed that splits and regens itself every couple of hours.

All plants provide the benefit of becoming a home to small species of life. You just have to pick the plant that you want and this is easier said then done once an infestation starts.

Raking provides a small benefit but allows sunlight penetration to give next gen a start.

The important word here is infestation. And FA understands that word very well. I have found that it is important to control it by spraying when it first appears in the Spring. And keep hammering it.


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FA gives dragonflys and damselflys a place to land an lay their eggs.



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I also noticed that the floating mats around the edge are a favorite place for frogs to sit. I have a good population of frogs and tadpoles, even though more recently rains have sent the FA mats to the bottom and are pretty much unseen. I think it helps keep the predators (LMB) at bay, giving the frogs much more cover in the mats than they would otherwise have to lay eggs and cover for the tadpoles.

I have a theory. It is not a very good theory because I pretty much don't know what I'm talking about when it comes to ponds. But everybody has opinions, even when they don't know what they are talking about. So here goes.

I believe FA is the organism that takes advantage of plentiful nutrients in a BOW until the time that root based aquatic weeds take over that job. In the absence of said aquatic weeds, the FA provides a valuable function of providing YOY fry, aquatic insects and other "critters" valuable cover, thereby enhancing the long term success of the fishery.

FA can be a good thing. There, I said it. The way it makes a pond look sucks, but as far as the under water portion of pond health goes, it provides a valuable service.

I just came out of the FA "closet". I kind of like a certain amount of the stuff (but not too much grin )

Last edited by snrub; 09/15/14 10:11 AM.

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FA can do quite well with aquatic vegetation present, here is a picture from my dad's old pond. The FA is anchored on top of the milfoil which is rooted to the bottom. In the spring the milfoil would grow to the surface and then later in the summer FA would cover all of the places that the milfoil made it to the surface. The outside edge of the FA in this picture is 6-8 feet deep.




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So much for that theory. grin

I hope mine does not get that bad.


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Dave, when you say spray it at first sign, is that first sign when it shows up on the bottom? If I understand it correctly it starts on the bottom in early spring and grows towards the surface. As it dies off it is then when the mats float up to the surface. Do I have this correct?

If so, how do you spray it on the bottom? What chemicals do you use?

I well understand the meaning of comparing it to Johnsongrass. And to think that many, many years ago our road department used Johnsongrass to seed road ditches. Now they spray to kill it as it is considered a noxious weed.

So far mine has not been terribly bad, but bad enough for about a month in the summer. Maybe I need to get a handle on it next spring????

One thing that I think has made mine worse than it would have been, is that we started out water levels about 18" low this spring and did not have the normal fall/spring recharge where the pond starts out full and with some flow through. I know for you guys in Texas 18" low is nothing, but for us it is very unusual to not get at least one large spring rain event to fill the ponds to overflow. So this started out the spring with water that would have been three feet deep with no sunlight to the bottom to 18" with sunlight hitting the bottom. So I think the low water exacerbated the FA problem for me.

Last edited by snrub; 09/15/14 10:59 AM.

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The current owners are running bottom diffusers and have very little milfoil and FA in the pond. wink



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In my experience FA has varying year classes. My FA this year was pretty strong, due to a couple factors IMO:

1. Dry spring allowed 8' water clarity much longer into the Spring following ice out which helped FA grow deeper than it has historically due to increased light penetration.

2. Cool spring delayed rooted vegetation establishment at least 2 weeks later than normal and also reduced planktonic algae blooms which helped water clarity and light penetration.

So, FA had the light due to water clarity and available nutrient loads due to lack of competing rooted vegetation and this resulted in at least 200% increase on my ponds - much deeper than it normally can develop.

In years we have warm, wet Springs I have seen the inverse occur due to early establishment of rooted vegetation. These are just my casual observations that might be helpful.

I don't like FA, however, I also find YOY fish use FA for cover, and often find grass shrimp in close proximity - upon which they are ostensibly grazing.


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Good info guys. I put in bottom diffusers (three double 9" with 2 cfm to each on 3 acre pond) but it was early summer before they were installed and running so the FA already had a running start. Maybe next year will not be as severe.


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Originally Posted By: snrub
Good info guys. I put in bottom diffusers (three double 9" with 2 cfm to each on 3 acre pond) but it was early summer before they were installed and running so the FA already had a running start. Maybe next year will not be as severe.


I think you should be prepared to see it come and go, John, depending on the conditions you're presented. If you can remove it once it floats I recommend it in order to help reduce nutrient loading that occurs when it degrades. I find a nice 8' net is far better at removing FA than rakes and easier to remove.

I like you are composting your FA - great use! I dry it and use it as an element in my potting medium along with peat and black soil. Not sure it makes much difference, but at least imparts a feeling that I'm being resourceful/creative.


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Originally Posted By: snrub


I have a theory.

I believe FA is the organism that takes advantage of plentiful nutrients in a BOW until the time that root based aquatic weeds take over that job. In the absence of said aquatic weeds, the FA provides a valuable function of providing YOY fry, aquatic insects and other "critters" valuable cover, thereby enhancing the long term success of the fishery.

FA can be a good thing. There, I said it. The way it makes a pond look sucks, but as far as the under water portion of pond health goes, it provides a valuable service.

I just came out of the FA "closet". I kind of like a certain amount of the stuff (but not too much grin )


First of all SNRUB I am a member of the back club with a herniated disc for the last 30 years.

Observing nature as you did in the ocean tells you a lot about water nature. It seem that water and plants got along just fine through millions of years without us. I like to read things like the daily notes of Louis and Clark in their expedition exploring the Louisiana Purchase and the excursions of Teddy Roosevelt to see what the water ways were like when they were pristine and untouched. When General Sherman was in command of troupes in Florida they took a single seine sweep for fish in the coastal water shore and filled five barrels with fish. It's hard to beat mother nature.


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Lots of very good info in this thread that should be mined for the archives thread on FA.
















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Filamentous algae is also a place that perch can string their egg ribbons out....Taken yesterday while attempting to manually remove some algae before it gets out of hand.

I stopped, and found that just about every clump around the pond had ribbons on it...well played algae, well played.



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A landscape rake works fair at pulling FA out around the pond edge. But it had its shortcomings. One was the FA would wrap around the top of the aluminum and then I had to tip the rake from side to side to try and get it to slide off. Lots of extra movement and effort to remove the FA from the rake.

Thought there must be a better way. Made the improvements shown in the pictures below and thought others might like to see them. The foam is some 2" insulation scraps that came out of some construction we tore down. I made it tall enough so it has floatation so the rake stays above the FA and never wraps over the top of the rake. That helps reduce effort of FA removal by at least a few hundred percent.

I've also found that with the flotation, once I remove a section of the FA I can put my hand on the end of the handle, shove the rake down into the water at the angle the pond bottom drops to deeper water, and make great turbulence (like a boat oar dipping into the water) and stirring the muck up off the bottom. The idea being that stirring the muck up will put nutrients into the water column and create a planktonic algae bloom rather than a FA bloom. As the rake is forced down into the water, the positive buoyancy of the insulation causes it to pop back to the surface for low resistance retrieval from the operation. Works much better than before the flotation portion was added.

Notice also the longer handle added. This was simply about an 8' piece of 2" electrical conduit I has laying in the shed. Gives the tool lots better reach. Bolted it on with a 1/4 x 2.5" bolt and nylock nut.

Works lots better than the original bare landscape rake.

picture 5 shows how I used a circular saw to make a slit to fit the insulation over the aluminum rake frame.
Picture 6 shows how I used heavy duty zip ties (used to tie up household duct work in heat/air systems) to attach the insulation
Picture 7 shows the handle extension
Picture 8 shows it in operation

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I found a large landing net worked great, just scoop it up and the water draines right out...


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A smelt dipping net works best for net algae removal. If u put a bolt through the end of the rake handle and add a rope you can toss the rake out into the pond farther than the handle along reaches.
Look up Lake Rake on the web for an example.

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I've had air in my pond since 2010 and I still get FA sorry air alone wont take that monster away. Like TJ says it comes and goes. Air may help some but it's not a fix for FA... I usually wait till it all blows to one end of the pond and then I try to go rake it out. Then not long after my Chara starts coming up and the FA goes away! Well my floating FA goes away...

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I think the FA would be grazed by scud or grass shrimp if you had either or both of those in your pond. The crustaceans would help to control the FA, and they would also be forage for your fish.

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Originally Posted By: Turtlemtn
I think the FA would be grazed by scud or grass shrimp if you had either or both of those in your pond. The crustaceans would help to control the FA, and they would also be forage for your fish.


I think some FA is good for the ponds diversity. I have seen this year where crayfish will graze the FA but only in spots the size of a dinner plate. Seams you need a butt tone to eat allot of this stuff. I have allot I mean ALLOT of crayfish and they cant keep up.

I don't see aeration making a big different with FA. I do see if your grass clippings get blown into the pond I will have FA in a week.

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FA has been absent in my pond for the last two years, I suspect my abundant golden shiner population might have something to do with it.



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An update to this thread.

This spring I took a proactive approach to see if I could keep ahead of the FA and keep it from getting into the nasty glob stage. I don't mind some around the edge of the pond, but wanted to try and keep it mostly under control. I actually like a little because it is good cover for critters that my BG like to eat.

So far it SEEMS to be working. However it could be just as TJ suggested that some years it can be worse than others and this simply might have been a not-so-bad year.

But this is what I have done that has seemed to have helped at least to date.

First, I started off early. FA gets started (at least in my pond) in very early spring and this year we had a warm March and it was already starting to grow on the bottom.

I took a two pronged approach. Limited chemical control and pond dye to keep light from penetrating deep into the bottom of the pond.

The water was very clear early this year after winter during water warm up. I could see the green FA starting on the bottom of the pond. Around the shallow edge it was already getting 6" long or so, not as much in deeper water.

I used some Cutrine granules from the bank to about 6' out and ordered some black pond dye. The Cutrine did a good job of killing the near shore FA.

The black is harder to find than the blue, but my wife and I both like the reflective look of the black than the blue tint of the blue dyes. I ended up using two different brands of dye but both were concentrated and advertised that a quart was equal to a gallon of regular pond dye. Having never used pond dye I have no idea if this is true (or they were just pulling my leg to get a sale). The treatment rate was 1-2 qts per surface acre with an average depth of 6'. I started with 2 quarts on a three acre pond, not wanting to make too drastic change all at once. Within the next week I added one more quart then another to end up at the time with 4 qts on the 3 acres. The dye looked like it might be helping but could still see the bottom at 3' depth or so. Ordered another brand direct from the manufacturer (at a better price but have to order 12 quarts case). Added more till I was at the upper 2 quarts per acre rate.

In the mean time the FA was coming back around the pond edge where the water was shallow. Treated with a small amount of Cutrine liquid and within a few days took care of it.

To date this appears to be working. I have added a little more pond dye as it naturally dissipates over time and as we have had large enough rain events to have flow-through and dilution. When I have a good algae bloom it is not needed. I only add the dye if the water clarity gets too great for several days without an algae bloom and it appears the FA could again start up. Usually only add one to two quarts at a time. Out of the original 4+12=16 quarts I have bought I think there is still 4 left in the box. This is on three acres of pond.

So far so good. With a couple of fairly minor treatments early with Cutrine around the edge along with the pond dye when the water was too clear, so far all I have had is small amounts of FA around the edge of the pond at times and at times none at all.

That is this year. If I can control it again next year with the same routine I will consider it a successful treatment (assuming it continues through the rest of summer well). I might have just got lucky and this was a lesser FA growing year or my pond has changed. But so far, so good.

Last edited by snrub; 05/19/16 12:03 PM.

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