Pond Boss Forums MANAGING AN EXISTING POND Evaluating and adjusting fish populations Not what I ordered

About 2 1/2 years ago we stocked the new pond when it was only about 4-5 feet deep and only about 3 months old and much less than half full with regular BG and a smaller number of RES. This year I have been catching a few to keep and can in the pressure cooker and have found out that either I have had unwanted fish arrive in the pond or that the fish I bought were not purely what I had ordered. There are definitely either GS in my pond or HBG. I am not sure I could tell the difference. Definitely the big mouth and coloration of GS though. The pond is fed by runoff and groundwater. No streams enter anywhere on my property. Did see Great Blue Heron and Green Heron and Canada Geese early on so maybe some eggs/fish could have hitchiked in. Do you think it possible that the fish truck (they work through a local feed store) is not real careful about whether their stock is segregated? Or do you think it more likely that they came in via birds or some other method? How DO you tell the difference between HBG and GS?

Post a photo of the offensive creatures, fishy. Let's have a look-see.

If there is no possibility of a high water event bringing in the unwanted fish, then my money's on the fishtruck being the culprit.

I'd bet on the fish truck. The chances of birds stocking is about as remote as storks delivering babies.

Dave you mean they don't? Dangit there is another myth busted

I agree with you on the fish truck probability

I'm right there with everyone else.

Get a photo posted of the ones you question. The folks here are really great at seeing all the traits that define a fish.

I don't think it is likely the fish came from anywhere but the truck. Is it common for fish trucks to screw up like this? I will post some pics of the fish in a day or so - today is a bit crammed.

It is more about who you get them from. Some have practically a flawless record, while with others you can almost be guaranteed there will be hitchhikers.

Here are 2 pics - neither what I would call a normal bluegill, but they aren't exactly alike either. Are they HBG or GS? The ones I caught today were nice size, hit like a ton of bricks, two of them I thought HAD to be catfish. I have caught these with bright yellow belly fins too - the one on the left had amazing colors. Both had mouths I consider way too big for BG - I catch a lot of these that are only 4 inches too. Cold as all get out today, I felt like I was trout fishing in Scotland with the wind howling and the mist coming off the water.

HBG

Yep. Good ones too. Are you catching any native (regular) bluegills? Was curious if they gave you all HBG, or if there was a mix?

I have caught regular BG and also RES. Some days it seems to be mostly these HBG if that is what they are, other days it is mostly BG. I stocked far fewer RES so I am not surprised that the numbers are lower for them. Thing is, if they are HBG, why am I catching 4 inchers? Did they only grow 1 inch in almost 3 years or are they reproducing OR do I have some GS in there too which I can't distinguish from HBG?

HBG are not sterile, and if you stocked the HBG with BG, you could conceivably be seeing some reproduction there also. Can't rule out the possibility of some "pure" GSF, next time you catch a smaller one post a photo.

The fish in your photos appear to display excellent characteristics, I would guess them to be F1's.

Pardon my ignorance but what is an F1?

F1 = (filial #1) first generation of offspring, usually of hybrids

Sorry. An F1 is a first generation hybrid. In this case the result of a cross between a BG and a GSF. If two F1's breed, they will create an F2. If two F2's....you get the picture.

It is generally acknowledged that the F1 fish hold the most desirable characteristics of the cross, and that each succeeding generation will possess fewer positive qualities, and more negative qualities. Generally acknowledged...more research is needed where HBG are concerned, in my opinion, in order to determine where in the lineage such degradation might occur.

The fish in the photos display the attributes I would consider desirable for HBG, and that along with their size is why I think they are F1's.

F1 would be the first cross from two different lines of pure fish. For example a full blood GSF female x full blood BG male. The resulting offspring would be F1.

So do successive generations revert to the characteristics of GS or the BG or to some other thing entirely? What is the management strategy? Do I want to leave the F1's or harvest them? I don't mind harvesting smaller fish either, since we figured out how to pressure can bluegill whole, they are all fair game. Makes really good bluegill salad, BG(crab) cakes and fish stew.

What do you want out of this pond? Is it strictly table fare you're after? You mentioned you thought you had a catfish when you hooked these guys, what other species are present?

HBG are most often declared to revert back to GSF. This is impossible from a purely scientific standpoint, but in a practical, real world scenario GSF is probably a good a description as any.

Following conventional wisdom, there's no point retaining the F1's for genetic purposes, so If my goal was food, I would harvest them when they reached a size I considered acceptable. If you received more of these than you did BG, you may find yourself short on forage, IF you were counting on forage to sustain another species.

I have wondered about whether this is one of those "it depends" scenarios. What if you have a few HBG in a pond full of BG?

I like bluegill. They are tasty, fun and easy to catch, and give the grand kids a thrill, best of all I know where they come from. But I want a balanced pond and don't want to feed the fish to get lunkers. I originally stocked (or so I thought) 350 BG, 150 RES, 30 CC, 75 LMB, 6 GC and some FM (which have all been eaten I presume). The pond is about .88 acres, 9 ft deep and averages about 4-6 feet I would guess. I am adding aeration to hold down the FA and have the GC in there to hold down the CLPW to a dull roar. When it is blazing hot in July and August I plan to jump in the pond and cool off, weeds and all. I have lots of buffer between me and any agricultural runoff. I caught and released a CC last year that was 21 inches, I have caught and released a few LMB approaching 14 inches. The BG, HBG and RES are all at risk for being eaten, and some days I go out and keep lots of small fish destined to be frozen and canned. At some point there may be some slot limits for the LMB. The CC are probably going to die of old age, but they are down there in their niche and if one of the grandkids hooks one they will have something memorable. And unfortunately, I have no idea how many HBG are in there and whether I was shorted BG or RES.

Then pay attention to what sizes you are catching and seeing, BG wise. I would do the same with the LMB. If the bass are skinny, you need more forage. If you start seeing a lot of one size bluegills, I might focus my harvest on them.

In my opinion, the HBG would disappear over time.

So keeping the HBG and possibly any GSF for the table and letting the BG and RES live to provide forage is probably the best bet? I try not to keep any BG or RES unless they swallow the hook. I am concerned that there may not be enough forage for the bass, and the CLPW and Bullrush and cattails gives the little fish way to many places to hide.

The places to hide will actually be a good thing as far as establishing a good forage base.

The reason being, if there are few places to hide the YOY fish get eaten while they are very small and provide very little nutrition to the predators. If the small fish have a place to hide, it ups the probability that they can escape predation during the very vulnerable small stage and grow large enough to provide more than just a tiny snack for a LMB or other predator.

Too many weeds and hiding places can actually cause a problem of over production of forage fish (and eventual stunting because of the over production). So in your case where you are worried about having enough forage production, the places for the small fish to hide is actually likely a good thing. It will help with your forage fish production.

I don't know if it has already been said in this thread, but HBG tend to be male heavy - a high proportion of males. That is another reason they do not reproduce on the same level as BG.

If you want to increase your forage base, keeping the HBG and GSF and returning the BG and RES sounds like a reasonable plan to me. At least until you are satisfied that your forage base is up to desired levels.

Spark---I don't want to hijack this thread, so if you know of a good link this is discussed, please refer me to it.

If the HBG eventual revert back to "mostly" a GSF characteristic, would they not then be breeding with the BG and create a whole new round of HBG?