Pond Boss Forums MANAGING AN EXISTING POND Evaluating and adjusting fish populations 8 Acre Trophy Pond Stocked Tiger Bass. Need Help

Seems to me that well fed fish aren't as aggressive as hungry ones. As much forage as it sounds there is might be the reason they aren't as aggressive as you would want.

So the first 3 years were strike happy bassland, and now the last 2 years have been different. Couple of things:
1) Try live shad as mentioned and just see if you get more strikes versus one or two strikes then nothing for hours

2) I'm presuming you're moving around the pond to areas where you know bass should be given forage and structure/cover?

3) The other ponds you reference that the bass are still tearing it up - are they also 5 years old, same bass strain and forage fish?


My hypothesis: The bass have plenty of forage to dine on from what you've indicated. They aren't starving. It seems that the RW would be high and that you have slabs, chunks and hogs for bass, is this correct? So if there is plenty of forage available, why hunt for anything else? If we presume bass have some level of either intelligence or learned behavior, then it is plausible that if I eat this fish and I swallow it and swim away, why would I strike that funny odd looking thing (lures) over there? It doesn't look like or behave like what I eat daily. Further, if you've landed X number of bass 2 or more times over the initial 3 year period, perhaps they've learned if I strike anything other than this fish (shad) I'm going for a ride, and I don't like that ride. So maybe they have learned after years of being hooked to stay away from lures.


If you're not wanting to fish only with shad then what options have you?
- remove as many bass as you can (electroshock, netting, shooting, fishing)
- stock new bass
- section off an area of your pond if feasible and stock the new bass in this area and do not fish it for 2 years, allowing them to grow, grow, grown and not be hooked, so that when you release them you are landing larger fish
- barbless hooks (I always crimp off my barbs and fish barbless only)

If you are having a hard time catching the bass, then maybe introducing new bass will help. But, since you are having a hard time removing enough by angling, that will entail another visit from the electroshock boat to remove all the LMB that are smaller.

As for the lime, what is your alkalinity, pH and hardness levels? Without knowing those numbers, it's hard to say whether liming the pond is warranted or not.

Sort of like asking the doctor what medicine to take without the seeing the doc.

Try an Alabama Rig asap! Good Luck

First post, so if this sounds way out in left field just ignore.

It has always been my understanding that LMB populations, regardless of strain, will populate to complement their food source. Could it be that if you just continue to wait, the F1's will simply continue to populate until they compete with themselves for the available forage in the BOW?

At the time when they start to overpopulate, you would need to do some intense harvesting to keep things in check. Which would be easy since at that time the population will have started to put a strain on the forage availability, creating competition for anything that looks like food.

We are looking at purchasing some property soon that will be prime for a ~30 acre watershed lake. I'm reading everything I can so that maybe one day.........

Here is some PB library work on catchability from the studies.

Here are a few selected from the search list for "catchability"

Note from the graph and the text that many LMB especially Fla strain never bite an artificial lure and many that do quickly become lure wise. A few never figure it out and are caught numerous times.




http://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=58265&fpart=1 *

http://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=115238&page=1

http://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=229410&page=1

http://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=181009&page=1

http://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.ph...true#Post260622


Garrett

http://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=58265&fpart=1 *

http://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.ph...true#Post108885

http://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=105508&page=1




From http://www.pondboss.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=150533&fpart=1

We conducted a long-term selection experiment to assess the

heritability of vulnerability to angling in largemouth bass Micropterus salmoides.

Yes there was a study done by Gary Garrett of TPWD that is related to the new one and its findings are included in the new study along with a bunch of additional studies on everything from BG , trout , CC all the way to birds. I will find the old thread for you here.

http://www.pondboss.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=58265&fpart=1 Fla LMB catchability

Even though I do not like to try to speak for someone else I will try to set out a few of the points Dr. Gary Garrett of TPW made in a conversation regarding the topic of this thread.

I explained the points we were discussing as they related to the several papers and articles he has written on his research.

He has been very busy and may post later. I hope he does and corrects any error I may make in relating the conversation.ML sent him an email that we both hope he will answer and if so it will be posted. Thanks for the help on this matter.

Most of his points were included in the papers. Each point needs to be read and thought about and allowed to sink in before going to the next point. I read the articles several times and did not get the full effect of the points until I talked to him.

1. Fishing with resultant harvest creates selective pressure for wariness in fish.

2.Some fish are more prone to be caught and they are the ones removed by both fishermen keeping them or by natural mortality associated with catch and release fishing. Thus leaving a higher % of wary fish either by learning or genetics.

3.LMB are rapid learners particularly when negative stimuli such as artificial lures are involved.

4.There is a genetic link to angling vulnerability -- difference between Fla. strain and northern strain.

5. There is evidence this applies to other sunfish (BG, RE etc.) as per studies that show that hybrid sunfish are more aggressive and more vulnerable than either parent species.

6.Catchability (vulnerability) can be manipulated by selective breeding.

7. This manipulation runs on a sliding scale based on the amount of vulnerabile fish genes in the population. A pond with 80% northern LMB genes will have a higher catch rate than one with 40%.

8. Use the goals of the owner to set and then adjust the % Fla. or Northern or F1 genes to get the catch rate wanted. We used 87% northern genes and 13% Fla. genes +- in a TX Resv. because we wanted high catch rates for the public while still retaining a chance for a trophy. Much lower rates of northern genes ( 20%) will still have a measurable effect on catch rates but they will be much less than with 80%.

9.TPW used triploid Fla. LMB in several of its studies which are not available to the public. Several of the studies on these matters are still ongoing in TX lakes and more info will soon be available.

10. There is a range of vulnerability within each subspecies but there is a bigger difference between the 2 subspecies.

11. Remember that BOTH types of LMB learn quickly ( a major point)-- so that catch rates go down a lot over the first fishing days on each of our test ponds. This is like the " opening day effect" on new resv. high catch rates drop off quickly.

12. Vulnerable fish were caught multiple times during the survey while some fish were never caught.

I am not knocking your fishing skills, but do you know any seriously competitive bass fisherman?
Being in Alabama, I promise you that they are abundant. There are any number of Bassmaster Pros probably not too far from you. They can catch the bass out of your pond on artificial lures and show you how.

With out spending anytime on your lake, I would suggest two lures:
A weightless Senko type stick bait wacky rigged and a 1/4oz shaky head rigged with a 5"-6" worm on about 8lb test line.

Try to find a day when you have had three to four days in a row with stable weather and try these lures.

If the fish are in there and you know they are, they will bite these baits under the right condition, no matter how abundant the forage is.

Anybody know how I can get in contact with Greg Grimes ?

lakework.com
greg@lakework.com
(770) 735-3523

He can also be reached via PM here on the forum under his full name, Greg Grimes.