Pond Boss Forums GENERAL QUESTIONS Pond Boss Christmas dinner at grandma's and the PB forum.

I've been mulling this over for some time now, but the combination of TJ's post in another thread and a rainy Sat. morning, appears to be just the catalyst needed for me to climb to the top of my box yet again. Fair warning: this post has little to do with ponds or fish.

I remember being a kid at Christmas time, and traveling to grandma's house for dinner with the entire family.The anticipation was almost magical, as these were YOUR people, YOUR family....the folks who had a hand in shaping you, teaching you, guiding you on the path towards being the person you would eventually become. Family.

In my family, everyone pitched in and brought an item for the dinner. And as a kid watching from the sidelines, it seemed to me that everyone had their specialty. A dish that they just did better than anyone else. For me, those dishes were the foundations of the meal...reliable, consistent, delicious, and always there. Staples, or fixtures of a sort similar to members of a long-running forum.

As kids, we didn't have a signature dish.....yet. We were expected to watch, learn, ask questions when appropriate, listen, and most of all, to be patient. There was a certain protocol to follow, manners to be learned, a down-in-the-holler, backwoods etiquette to be instilled.

The passage of time brought changes of course. As we grew older we would bring friends, or a date, or a new spouse to the dinner table. And while they were always welcome, they would also be observed. How did they conduct themselves? My grandmother had a saying she would use to describe someone she considered to be lacking in social graces... "They weren't raised, they just grew up"

As the older members of my family began to decline in number, someone else, myself included, might assume the job of preparing that signature dish. And while the food was always good, I often felt that something was lacking. Maybe a missing ingredient, perhaps it was only a psychological element on my part, but whatever the reason, the meal just didn't impart the same feeling of satisfaction as it once did. The dish, and the atmosphere that once surrounded it, wasn't the same.

It may be that some here view interaction on the forum not as a family dinner, but as a quick trip for some fast food. And I totally get that. I was once the same way. You walk up to the counter at Burger King, place your order, PAY YOUR MONEY, get your food, eat it and get gone....quick and easy, little to no social interaction necessary or required. I see the appeal there, and it is symbolic of our instant gratification society nowadays. But it's no excuse to dismiss good manners.

I was reminded not too long ago that while people come and go here on the forum, the forum itself will remain. And I can't argue that. But if the menu changes too drastically at the restaurant, I think we're probably going to wish we were back at grandma's house for dinner.

Tony, there are some aspects of this forum that remind me of having coffee at the diner or truck stop with friends.

sprkplug, very well written, but perhaps you can followup with a suggestion on how to get back to that atmosphere that was here before and is missing now? What do you feel you'd like to have that was here in the good old days?

Are there certain people who left the forum that you wish could be back?

Is it the impatient tone of the newer members without reading/researching first? (I'm the first to admit that I'm guilty to that in my eagerness to ask for help from the experienced ones on the forum)

Is it that there is too much turnover of members on the forum like those who race in and race out at Burger King in your post above?

I'm too new to know what it was like in the good old days, but I will say that this has been a very unique experience compared to other forums out there for me. Very connected, dedicated, patient, and unselfish group of members for the most part.

My apologies if somehow I missed the hidden request or main goal of your excellent post.

As always Tony, words of wisdom and food for thought seem to come off that soap box of yers. IMO feel free to climb up there whenever the urge stricks ya.....

Thanks Canyon, but I suppose it comes down to whether or not anyone else thinks the forum flavor is a little off these days. Could be that it's localized to just my personal taste buds, and a change is not warranted.

Spark, you sure hit home with me... I am not a very good writer or explain myself very well. You are excellent!!! Never stop.

We have had big loses in our family over the last year. So as you wrote, I kept saying to myself who cares about those dishes anymore, I just want them back. And finally, you drove that point!

I have not been part of this forum nearly as long as you, but have noticed changes. At times I find it troublesome, not sure really why or what to do, but your words couldn't be more true.

Thank you.

Tony,

Great post. Every family and every forum needs wise elders. Maybe it's just your turn to be one.

I hope so.

JP

Tony, I really liked your post, but you do realize this is the internet, and a business to boot?

Grandma would freak if you brought everyone home for Christmas Dinner.

...Sure I do. And in order for a business to make money, it needs to provide a product or service that folks are willing to pay for. In this case, I think that means driving traffic to everything associated with ponds.... advertisers and suppliers, mag. subscriptions, pond consults and pond supplies, (including fish), dirt work, etc. In order for that to happen, the forum needs to present its best face forward, at least in the public's (prospective new customers), eyes.

That's what I'm wondering. Is that still being accomplished? I sense a shift, or change in the forum atmosphere. Maybe it's just me, maybe it's timing, I don't know. Just wondered if anyone else felt the same way.

You do realize that what you are suggesting will make it a "Members Only" forum, and ya cant bleed the same guy's all the time to pay for it.

I think PB has this figured out.

What do you perceive me suggesting? I haven't worked on a plan, or solution. I'm still trying to figure out if there's a problem.

Delete...As a newbie, not my place to comment

Oh Spark, you're cool!

Let the forum owners figure it out. It belongs to them anyway.

You already stated a problem, and a round about desire to fix it.

In the many years that I've been here, there have been quite a few new pond sites started. None of them lasted very long and PB keeps on chugging along and growing.

This is a sideline thing for Lusk and Otto and they lose $ on it. The Mods are fairly shiftless and lazy so they don't want to do much that would work up a sweat. Some of the Mods like Cat, me, and Cody are getting old and senile. I suppose Kids like Sunil, Omaha, TJ and Esshup will have to figure out what needs changing. Us old goats won't remember that there is an issue.

I like your style...

Thought provoking as always, Sparkie.
There have definitely been a lot of changes in the forum over the years, most of them as participants, both members and moderators, waxed and waned in their degree of interest and interaction. And I can think of other times past when your sentiments would have seemed just as appropriate and relevant. However, three things keep me here, and give me confidence in the future quality and relavance of the forum:

1] I've met some guys here that I consider lifetime friends, all are still here, in one form or another, and there are a bunch of others I'd like to meet in the future sometime.

2] Although there are occasional dustups, the spirit and ethos of the forum remain essentially intact. I think there's more tolerance and general willingness to try to be helpful here than in the vast majority of other places, either on the internet or off.

3] Although some of the longtime members have been lost along the way, there have been a host of new, high quality folks that have signed on in the last couple years, and are gradually getting more active and involved.

So Christmas Dinner might taste a bit different year to year, but hopfully the sense of fellowship, the real reason for the event, can go on.

Well said!! I to have met one so far that I consider a friend, several more that I would like to meet. There are some great folks on here

Then maybe a large part of what I perceive as different, or lacking, lies just within me and not with the membership as a group. I readily acknowledge that distinct possibility, which is why I'm glad others took time to weigh in with their thoughts on the matter.

Being raised as the son and grandson of Baptists preachers meant a lot of time spent sitting, listening and watching my elders use everyday, common instances of rural living in an attempt to communicate a 2000 year old message in such a fashion that everyone might relate and comprehend. I may have decided many, many years ago that the pious pathway wouldn't bear the weight of my footsteps, but I did come away with an appreciation for storytelling as a means to try and convey a particular point of view.

I appreciate the indulgence, as well as the comments. I guess I will consider everything well, or at least within the bounds of acceptability.

Tony, you're a gifted communicator - I appreciate the time and effort required to draft the post. I enjoyed walking the path and obviously agree with many sentiments expressed.

I like both your and Dave's analogies: Diner vs. drive through. Some come here to learn a few things, but even after doing so realize they've found a very special place and want to be a part of it, and end up sticking around and developing friendships, eventually adding some knowledge to the forum, and maybe end up fiscally supporting the forum and even volunteering in some way, shape or form as a way to pay it forward. In my mind, these are the guys BSing in the diner.

Others are here for the quick fix - looking for advice on an issue or two, and then they're gone. Nothing wrong with that - I've done this on many forums in the past when I needed guidance. These guys are deserving of help, and most of us fall over each other in an effort to assist or direct them. This is the fast food crew - just as entitled to information as anyone else, just a different mindset and intention perhaps than the diner boys.

Not to belabor the point - but my only issue is when someone from either the fast food or diner crew doesn't employ good manners and decides to step in the front of the line just as I'm about to get my morning java and cream cheese danish. Is it the end of the world? Naw, I'll get to my ritual soon enough. It merely irritates me - and maybe after a few years on the forum it starts to have a cumulative effect?

Now, if you'd be so kind as to hand over the sports section, I'd like to see how the Pirates managed to lose again last night.

I believe what TJ and Dave wrote says it quite well, stuff I was thinking but not able to put it into words.


In the past few months, there has been an obvious decline in some contributors presence. Very important ones in my opinion. Won't get into names, but they all have there reasons and I imagine those reasons are all varied and warranted. They are the "great elders" so to speak. In the meanwhile, I have noticed a lack of response to some help because of their idleness, and you (Tony) have jumped in there to help them when it seemed silent. I see that as a good thing.

Those that are joining the forum now, might only get to know you (and others in this timeframe). They will look upon you for guidance, a great elder and knowledgeable leader. When it is time that you are gone, I can only believe they will feel like you do now..... Life's cycle you might say? ...One reason why we all need to enjoy those around us, for it won't last forever. Those particular behaviors, that knowledge, those dishes.....

I can't comment on the history of this site, because I'm so new. I will say my pond is totally different from what I thought it would be. 100% of what's been done to improve it, has happened because I found pond boss. Thank you all, for every reply to my uninformed, and poorly worded posts. I too don't like to see things decline, I hope I'm not part of the problem. I will say, I've got thick skin. Send me a pm if I'm out of line on issues, or I post too many pics etc.. My enthusiasm sometimes gets the better of me.

Quick, necessary note from me: I speak in terms of generalities, not specifics. What I have expressed here is strictly one person's opinions and musings, intended only to promote further discussion and insight. NOT to single one, or even some, out from others.

Enthusiasm is good Setterguy....

As usual, the PB community has provided me with a great deal of food for thought. Between the latest postings in this thread, and a few hours spent mulling over the issue, a couple points seem a little clearer to me this morning.

First and foremost, I am lamenting the absences of some long-time posters. These guys were mentors to me, whether they knew it or not. Most of what little I think I know, came to me by way of PondBoss, and particularly a few talented contributors, some of which are no longer posting to the forum. A few others appear to have a diminished presence as of late. Their reasons for declining to participate are their own, and I don't feel they owe me, or anyone else for that matter, an explanation. However, in one individual's case we are all aware that dis-satisfaction of a sort is the reason for their departure. This is not the time or place to re-open that discussion, I bring it up merely to illustrate what I'm thinking: does dis-satisfaction play a role in a few other notable absences as well? Maybe, Maybe not?

This is my point....would we recognize and acknowledge a potential problem early on, or would it take an exodus of members before we realized something was up? Recently, the analogy of placing a frog into water and slowly raising the temp. was used to illustrate how a subtle change can be dismissed or ignored until it's too late...I agree, which is the reason for my post. Are we in fact, looking at that scenario right now, or is it merely a natural course of action?

I'm a mechanic. When I hear a noise that sounds out-of-place, I don't ignore it, I get off the machine and take a look. Most times, everything is fine. But once in awhile, I catch a little problem before it becomes a big problem, and I'm pretty darn glad I hopped off and checked things out, rather than staying the course. Listen to the machine, fellows...does it sound as it should? Over the years, I have noticed a pattern with myself. Most often, when I THINK I heard something out of the ordinary, I most likely did.....even though I may not be able to pinpoint a trouble spot right off the bat.

Secondly, I struggle with the same issue touched on by TJ. I really do understand the fast-food aspect of forum interaction, but I don't think it reason enough to suspend manners, and simple polite behavior. If this is your very first post on the PB forum, what's wrong with a simple "Hi, I'm *****, and I'm having a problem with ****, and was hoping someone here could help me figure it out. Thanks!"

Yeah I know. It's all about instant gratification and solving MY problem right now.....a gift from the always available internet and 24 hour Walmarts'. "I don't need to plan, or wait, I can get it all right now"

I too have visited forums solely to find a quick answer. But I ALWAYS utilize the search function FIRST, to try and find my answers. Then, if I needed additional clarification, I would introduce myself and ask for help. Granted, the search function on this forum is atrocious, and not everyone knows about the google search option, so maybe I need to extend a pass to those folks. I just don't know.

I do think however, that TJ's astute observation about the effects being cumulative is dead on. How often, for how long, is eventually enough?

And finally, I can't ignore the probability that I'm being selfish. Some have referred to me as the wise elder....I'm certainly gaining improved traction in the elder department, but I have miles to go before reaching the wise destination. Fact is, I don't consider myself in that category....not even close. I still have much to learn, and I was hoping to have the counsel of those "established elders" available to me for years to come. And that's selfish on my part. I can go on about how the forum as a whole still has much to gain by the continued presence of a few individuals, and it would be true, but the fact of the matter is, Tony was expecting to reap the benefits of their interaction himself. I have further questions, many unrecognized as of yet.

Fortunately, a few established elders remain....no disrespect intended by the elder remark, fellows....and we have the likes of TJ, Esshup, and a host of newer guys ascending the rungs rapidly. I KNOW the forum as a whole will be fine, because I know those guys can prepare the traditional Christmas dishes, and prepare them very well indeed. And maybe my good friend Yolk is right...wouldn't put it past him, after all he's pretty sharp.....maybe the chairs pulled up to the dinner table will be occupied after all. I surely hope so.

For me, the forum has changed over the 12 or so years that I've been participating.

I don't feel that the substance has changed, but feel it's more the coming and going of members, for whatever reasons, and then simply the growth of the forum. As it's grown, some of the 'personal' feel has waned.

But in hindsight, the forum acted as a spring board into deeper relationships, crafted first through substantial communication via the internet, and then into communication off forum, and then to personal interaction. Many 'outsiders' would be aghast at the level of friendships built PRIOR to ever having met in person.

Now, I think I value those personal relationships more than the forum itself. One member ships Aquamax feed to me 'cause it's not easily found where I live. Another member gave me an original Dunlop Fuzzface guitar effect box. I've partied hard with numerous other members, and camped, and spent overnights with the same. I've taken trips with groups of members. I know the spouses of several members and feel just at home with them. My wife has met many members in person.

I recall at one time when Theo Gallus cut back on his participation, he told me that the forum had changed, and he alluded to it not being as personal as it once was; frankly, it was the growth, and new members joining. But the forum has to grow, and new members have to jump in and become friends. If we only had an insular group, it would eventually dwindle down to nothing.