Pond Boss Forums STOCKING A NEW POND Types of fish to choose Building new pond YP/SMB/RES HBG??

Looking for some expert advice me and my wife are building our first pond, and it should be about one acre. I have two young boys 1 and 4 my number one goal is a prime kids fishery. I personally would like to have YP/SMB/RES and a few HSB as a bonus fish. My only question is could I possibly add some HBG for the Kids to catch, or should I stock something different all together? I plan on feeding the fish please give me your advice if this is a sound stocking plan and if so how many fish number wise? I am open to any ideas.

I don't see a problem with the HBG. I don't see a strong forage fish in your stocking selection.

Do you have any personal suggestions for stocking? I just thought the YP/SMB/RES/HSB would be a neat pond since almost every pond in my area is the standard LMB/BG/CC, but my goal is still to have fish for my kids to catch if my kids cant catch the fish it would be a failure to me. Like I said I am open to any combo of fish I have no problem feeding as well. Thanks for any advice

How does this sound the first spring with water in the pond I would stock 10# FHM, 1,000 paper shells, and one box of GSH fry from Anderson minnow. That following fall I would stock 75 RES 2"-3" and 150 YP 4"-6". The next spring I would stock 100 HBG followed by 25 SMB and 25 HSB in the fall.

Hi Ozark and welcome to the forum!

I'm a cool water species fan and have experience with fisheries of this type on my land and also with several clients.

I think the companion sunfish species you've selected will work, you've obviously been doing your homework on the forum with research. Well done.

Here's a possible stocking plan for you to consider - of course it all depends on your goals.

Spring 2016

FHM - you don't need 10# if you're allowing them a year to reproduce. The more FHM you stock, the more you need to hand sort as invasive species frequently get lost in the thousands of FHM. If you stock this many, be sure to get them from a RELIABLE source - no fish trucks! I made that mistake as a rookie, and introduced BH and BG into my fishery which I'll never be rid of. I'd consider stocking 1# and hand sorting them to be safe and provide some spawning habitat for them. FHM aren't expensive, just please be careful stocking them - I do not advise dumping 15,000 FHM into a pond without absolute confidence in the source.

I stocked 50 paper crays in a .35 acre predator free pond and in one year had over 1,000 I seined and transported. I was amazed at their success, and while I don't recommend going that low, I'm using this as an example for you. You probably don't need to break the bank here - 100-200 would likely be just fine and you can save some $ to invest in other fish or habitat, etc.

You can try the GSH fry, several on the forum seem to report success with this Anderson plan. Or you can stock 100 adults [4-6"+] and let them do their thing over the Summer. Bear in mind GSH spawning habitat consists of submerged/emergent vegetation - if your new pond lacks this, reproduction might be affected negatively. Submerged vegetation [even grass grown along shoreline] will work as well as aquatic vegetation - so consider getting some grass going prior to filling the pond if you want to provide spawning habitat should you elect to stock adults. While I've never had to rely on this method, fescue, rye, random weeds, whatever will likely work according to experts on the forum.

You can stock the RES in Spring/Summer at that size, or wait until Fall. If you just want a presence to help manage snail population, 75-100 is a good number. That low density will likely be enough to disrupt yellow/black grub parasitic cycle, and due to lower competition for forage items in their niche, the RES will grow large quickly. Bear in mind, however, you won't have a significant angling opportunity considering the low density - will likely serve as a bonus catch from time to time, which might fit your goals fine. If you want them to serve as more of an angling opportunity, you could safely stock 150-250 without impacting the fishery negatively. if your RES are not performing to your standards in a season or two, harvest a few dozen and thin the population - they'll respond favorably with improved body condition.

I think the Fall is good for YP stocking, also - and those size fish should be available somewhere up North. Contact Rex Rains [Rainman on the forum], he will source good genetics for you. Request pellet trained fish as that will relieve some pressure off your forage base of GSH. Depending on your goals for the YP, I think you could go anywhere from 100 - 400/ac. You might not get reproduction/recruitment from these YP depending on your water temps - I believe YP need 49 degrees for egg development, but Cody can advise on this detail. If you aren't pulling spawns, supplemental stocking of YP annually or biannually will be necessary. If you won't pull spawns, 150 initial stocking might be a good number, and follow up in a season or two with another 100-150. Qty will be dependent on your harvest plan - YP are hard to beat in cornmeal and peanut oil!

HBG the following Spring sounds good, but I think you can nudge that number up depending on what you do with RES and YP. You could go up as high as 400-500/ac, again depending on your goals and stocking qty of YP and RES. Some on the forum help manage HBG populations by removing all female HBG caught and it sounds like a good strategy. Periodically stock new HBG to help prevent them from reverting to GSF genetics - Cody and Sparkplug can advise further on this topic. Pellet program will help feed the HBG, they'll grow large and fast and be a blast to catch in UL tackle or flyrod.

I like your SMB numbers - look for 6-8" fish in Fall. With that low density, the SMB will grow larger and while not caught frequently, will be a lot of fun. SMB population management could serve as an issue for you - they will spawn successfully in rock substrate but can also do so on hard clay [they spawn on both in my ponds], so this will be something to keep an eye on. Removing SMB and caging isn't hard, and Rex can likely find a home for them if you pull spawns annually and need to cull fish. Rex can source these for you from Fountain Bluff hatchery - they have offered pellet trained in the past my FB fish from Rex have performed admirably.

HSB stocking numbers sound good - or you can consider ladder stocking so you have several year classes represented. You could go 10 in the Fall, follow in two seasons with another 10 [year 4], follow in two seasons with another 10 [year 6], etc. If you plan on harvesting any HSB, bump these numbers during ladder stocking. Pellet program will keep these fish happy and growing fast. Rex can source these for you, too.

Remember, if you want big fish, go heavy forage and pellet program and keep stocking numbers like and harvest liberally. If you want more angling opportunities nudge the numbers upward. I've tried to provide some very general guidelines and you can adjust according to your goals.

This sounds like a very promising fishery, and we can't wait to experience the journey with you. Keep us apprised of your plans, and always feel free reach out with questions. Now, post some photos of your proposed pond site, please - we love photos!

Ozarkfisher maybe i can help as well

Where in the Ozarks are you ? ,,Im from Williford Ar
A couple things i can add .
One Is what kind of fish are avalable in your area for stocking ? I have found that some of what was suggested isnt avalable in the Ozarks
I purchased my fish from Arkansas Pond Stockers from Cash Ar and might add they are great to deal with ,My fatheads had no mixed fish of any kind and only thing i saw out of place was 2 lmb in my cnbg

I wanted a catfish pond and mine is about 1 acre so i went with 100 cnbg 5 lb fatheads 5 grass carp and 150 6-8 inch cc and to give my wife something to catch till the lil catfish grow we added 20 2 - 3 lb cc

20 CC 2 to 3 lbs? I am not a pro but IMHO I would worry those guys will go thru a bunch of the fish you just stocked in a few weeks.

Oops!! Fat cats

In that case they may grow and we will eat them ,, Why worry ? its just fish and if my wife is happy im happy . You see i spent thousands of dollars for deer hunting land and this pond came up for sale and boarders my land, well the wife didnt hunt but loves to fish even if she doesnt catch anything she is happy and i had a reason to buy more land so i am happy and thats good .........

Ya done good!

TeeJaeh, thanks for the valuable insight I will make some changes to my stocking plan and repost on this thread. With the YP I checked and local lakes in the area have water temps in the 40s during the winter and local ponds freeze over so hopefully I should be able to pull off a spawn in an acre pond I hope.

Scatter, I am from Harrison up in the northwest corner I also have noticed the lack of fish species in the area, but I have no problem driving to go get them or having them shipped.

TeeJaeh, I know how everyone likes pictures so yes I will be starting a thread in the pond construction area soon and will update it as progress happens. This forum and pond boss mag. have been great tools in the last year for planning this venture.

You bet, I'm happy to help in any way I can. Don't take the stocking suggestions as an absolute - these are guidelines you can nudge one way or another. I'd recommend buying Lusk and Otto books which are invaluable to guys about to construct a pond. Perfect Pond by Lusk and Just Add Water by Otto are available via the pondboss.com website.

I wanted to let you know the reason I have BH and BG in my fishery are due to tainted FHM stocking via Arkansas Pond Stockers, aka Ye Olde Fish Truck. I noticed they were mentioned in the post here, and I strongly advise you use a reputable hatchery in AR or contact Rex. Do not take chances - your fishery will be forever altered...it only takes two fish.

That's great news about your YP forecast - reproducing YP in AR would be amazing to witness. We can ride your coattails and claim bragging rights for Pond Boss...as far as I am aware you'd be the only pondmeister with YP reproduction in AR. Too cool!

Thanks Teejaeh I will definitely look into those books. I had planned on using Anderson Minnow (will still hand sort) here in AR for my FHM and GSH has anyone here on the forum had good luck with them? The YP have been a real goal of mine since there are very few in our lakes and they are great table fare. My goal for the pond would be more angling opportunity for my kids so I readjusted the stocking numbers let me know what you think.
Spring 2016
2# hand sorted FHM
200 PSH
100 GSH brood stock
150 RES

Fall 2016
300 YP possibly different sizes(age groups)?

Spring 2017
200 HBG will release any confirmed females to peanut oil

Fall 2017
25 SMB pellet trained if possible
10 HSB will ladder stock bi-yearly

I have a question on stocking PSC in a new pond. Assuming there is proper structure such as rock piles, should their stocking be delayed until vegetation begins growing in the pond or will they find enough forage to get by?

That's a good question also one I had not thought about definitely wouldn't want to starve the PSC. Hopefully someone knowledgeable on PSC will answer it for us.

I have all of those books. But my favorite is still Raising Trophy Bass.

Would there be any way to accelerate the above mentioned stocking plan without compromising it so to speak? I am not worried about spending a little extra money to have my kids fishing quicker I just want a quality fishery. thanks for any advice

Ozark I think you've condensed everything pretty well already...the difference in accelerating your predator fish stocking isn't worth the risk of an under developed forage base IMO. It's hard to be patient, but we've all been there.

Now, if you insist on accelerating, here's my recommendations:

You can money whip the forage stocking plan and exponentially expand stocking qty of forage species. You could conceivably stock RES with the forage in Spring 2016.

Fall 2016 you could stock all remaining fish species. You will spend more $ on forage base stocking, but you could save a year on the plan if it's that important to you.

Thanks TJ in that case I believe I will just stick with the original plan and stock it over two seasons. I would hate to hammer an underdeveloped forage base and ruin my stocking plans.
On another note should I seed some sort of vegetation before my pond fills up so the papershells have something to eat, and how about grass shrimp would they be a good addition to a SMB pond?

IMO crays will be fine, I suspect they will find a way to thrive - mine certainly did.

Yes, Grass shrimp have zero negative impact on fishery, provides another forage source for YOY fish, your RES, etc. I recommend them in every fishery as they're simple to stock, and typically develop self sustaining populations. My shrimp use many types of cover, including FA. If you lack predators they should be fine until vegetation establishes.

Thanks as always for the great information TJ

Hey, your project deserves attention - doing some very cutting edge things there and I fully support your efforts. Ping me anytime to chat - can't wait to see what you do.

Further, it's a lot of fun helping those who take the time to be grateful for the direction...you'll find an abundance of advice here with that positive attitude. Thanks for setting a good example for us all to follow and to be thankful for other's time.

Going to reopen this thread for some quick advice. If I stocked PSH, FHM, grass shrimp, and banded killifish would that be enough forage so that I don't have to stock GSH ? I have heard mixed reviews on GSH and am not sure I want them also my pond should be finished around July. If there is enough water could I stock these forage species in the fall so that they get a jump on next spring?

I don't know enough about BKF to make a recommendation on whether they would establish a self sustaining population in the presence of those predators. Travis and Cody can respond to that with their experience, but my hunch is they would not make it alone. If you pellet feed your YP and SMB, it helps shift focus/pressure off the natural forage base and your chances improve. Why is this advice sounding familiar?

My advice is to go ahead with this stocking plan if GSH aren't appealing to you right now, and if the BKF aren't thriving, you can always stock adult GSH down the road. This is what Josh [Omaha] is doing and I like his plan - but don't tell him I admitted that publicly.

Thanks TJ I've just got some concerns about GSH after reading here on the forum if you experts still agree that I need them I would gladly use them, but if I don't need them that's a different story. Thanks

I'd recommend trying without, esp if pellet feeding, then resort to them if necessary. I think Spotfin Shiner and Lake Chubsuckers would be good additions...you just need to source them and allow them time to reproduce.

TJ,
Just curious.. I stocked GSH, but I'm thinking so many died in my grass matts, and have been picked off by the Kingfisher, that I don't have that many left. I see zero along the bank, and at the feeder. Still see lots of FHM, and I believe the YP, at the feeder.
The question is, can I add Spotfin Shiners, and Lake Chubsuckers after my YP have been stocked? The YP are approx 3-4". I am planning on adding SMB this fall, but could postpone until next year, or stock very small SMB this fall. I've added a fair amount of cover, (Cedar trees) but I'm thinking my FHM are going to go quickly once the YP get larger, and I add the SMB. Just thinking some additional forage fish might be beneficial, but I don't want to add them, and have them all picked off in a few days.
Hope this isn't a complete hijack.
Thanks,
Jeff

TJ is right. I was like you in that I'm worried that adult GSH will compete with the species that I want thriving in my pond. I will likely need them, as TJ alluded to, but I'm holding off until my predators can keep them in check.

StrGuy aka Jeff - You can add spotfin and LCS with the fingerling YP (3"-4") providing the spotfins and LCS are at least 1.5"-2" long. The fingerling YP will be focused on eating the fry of the FHM.

Thanks!
I need to find a source for spotfin and LCS..

The spotfin and steelcolor shiners and LCS are all native to MO. Spotfin and steelcolor shiners spawn the same way and either one would be very good in a pond with YP. A good naturalist or biology teacher would know where and how to collect them in MO.

Banded killifish are great but they do not provide a big meal for your bigger SMB. GSH can become a problem apparently but if you have YP and SMB to prey on them you should be fine.

I stocked BKF and spotfins in my pond, I think they have established but I am not sure as I have not seigned and they don't get suckered into the fish traps. Spotfin shiners are crevice spawners so to help ensure they establish you should create the proper spawning structure. I made structures out of blank cd's and washers that I hung from my dock, I have seen the spotfins hanging out here and I have seen eggs on the cd's:


Even a big spotfin can be eaten by a 12" SMB. A big 9-12" GSH is only vulnerable to a REALLY big smallmouth so they stand a better chance of creating a sustainable population.

Thanks for the advice everyone I believe I will go ahead and stock LCS and Spotfins in low densities due to the high price and stock GSH after I get some predators started in the pond. I guess another question would be can you stock to many forage species? Because right now I am looking at stocking FHM, LCS, spotfins, BKF, PS, Grass shrimp, and then GSH after YP go in.
Thanks all for the great advice

Pond should be done in a couple of days and with two springs and im sure some late spring showers would it be possible to stock any of these forage fish this fall to give them a jump on next spring?

I put in fathead minnows last fall when my pond was pretty muddy, brand new, and about 6' deep.
This spring the water had cleared (thanks to Rainman) it's deeper, but not yet full, and absolutely full of FHM. They really multiply fast. I think I put in 10 pounds (1 acre pond)
Rex added some more this spring, I don't think you can have too many.
Jeff

Sorry Ozark, I just saw you addressed some questions to me I didn't answer - I haven't checked this post in quite some time I've been traveling. Looks like you got them resolved though - great direction by Cody and Rockville.

For anyone interested in establishing forage base comprised of SFS, LCS, BKF, etc. - since they are not commonly available and so expensive, I encourage them to raise in forage cells which act as reproduction and grow out sanctuaries. I would collect offspring every year and leave plenty of brood fish in the cell to continue reproduction and stock the fish collected. If one continues this reproduction/stocking program annually one stands a better chance of getting the forage base established.

If you have a pond devoid of any predator fish, stocking the limited number of brood fish and allowing them a couple seasons to establish seems to be a good course of action, too.

Along the lines of a 'forage cell', TJ, to save on space it would help if those forage cells were WITHIN my current pond rather than digging new holes elsewhere in my front yard. do you have ideas how that could be done?

If I got a 100 gallon cattle water tank (plastic)or some 275 gal IBC totes and cut the tops off them, could I put them in the current shallow end of the pond and do it that way?

I was thinking I could cut a hole for water to fill them to counterweight them but is it to my advantage to keep the water in the cell separate from water in the pond (my groundwater pond fluctuates a lot and once water level is down I wouldn't be able to fill my forage cell as it would run out into the pond)

I guess I could have a guilliotine door with fine netting that I could open and close to let water in/out but keep fish in?

If I had a solid tank I could add water at will but wouldn't so easily be able to deal with water quality issues if I had to exchange the water.

This probably needs to be another thread, but was wondering how you did forage cells.

If you want to use your current pond as a growout cell you can do it with blocking nets. However, they won't work as well for reproduction cells as larval fish could easily escape through the blocking net and into oblivion, likely. So, you're looking at less recruitment. Eric West authored at least one article on the art of using blocking nets in primary pond to grow out fish.

You can find my forage cell construction on the forum somewhere - too much to relate in detail now. Need reliable water source [well or reliable runoff], design cell according to collection method [seining or gate valve]. Seining cell will be narrow, flat bottomed, and I'd make one end deeper than the other like a roller paint pan in order to collect fish in reduced area. Gate valve cell will be created so deepest part of pond is in area of pipe and very steep sides [2:1] to help facilitate collection of fish in deepest water. Anything less than 2:1 and fish can get stranded along the sides of the pond instead of being flushed through gate valve.

If you need specifics, feel free to call sometime, happy to relate my experiences with these different cells. I've done a few of each now.

Ozark, make some breeding like Ozark did and you'll be amazed at how fast and how many they reproduce. I find that just below the surface, the more it fills.

OOPS, meant like Rockvill did. That dang Bill D got me all flustered.

Unfortunately I had to go back to work, but my wife and oldest son bought and hand sorted 2 pounds of FHM for the pond today. Since the pond is about half full I decided it was time to start the forage stew. I also have grass shrimp and Papershell crayfish in the mail that should be here in a couple days.

We have learned that our Yellow perch are not as aggressive at eating our fathead minnows as I had expected in the original plan. I expect this has mostly to do with the fact we stocked 400 4-6" pellet trained perch as well as the water clarity staying to only 24" at the most.

This has allowed our minnow base to become the largest I have ever seen in a pond ever. The minnows are also not afraid to play soccer with a floating feed pellet while the perch are feeding on them.

Giving the minnow base a year heads start is the best thing any one pond owner can do for their fishery.

Cheers Don.

P.S. Paper shell crayfish grow very fast. Our second year first hatched in our pond crayfish get to 1.5"s the first year. Around three weeks ago they were about 1/4" from this year and millions.

Dono - What is the ratio of FHM to shiners in your pond? When you set a baited minnow trap how many FHM do you catch compared to shiners?

That's good to hear Don hopefully my forage base will do as well as yours has I to plan on buying feed trained perch next fall which gives me a little over a year to grow forage. A question just for curiosity how many crayfish did you initially stock with?

I am seeing the exact same thing as Don. My pond is full of FHM. Mostly from some I stocked last summer. The YP or RES haven't put a dent in them. The banks are thick with them, and even out in have middle when I'm in the canoe or swimming there are FHM everywhere. I have them both hitting the feed when the feeder goes off.
My visibility was around 3' a few days ago. SMB going in this fall. I suspect they will hit the FHM. If not, HBG...

Give the SMB 2 years and I suspect that the FHM will be in short supply or gone completely.

I should have some nice sized SMB by then!

SetterG - the trick to SMB success will be to have the right forage available for the smallies to keep them growing when the FHM are gone.

I now have a 10-15' thick mat of submerged plants all around the pond. Do you think that papershell crayfish will do well in these plants without rocks to hide in?

My dad just finished putting in my 200 grass shrimp I ordered from Fattig which by the way were a pleasure to deal with good down home service from the folks there in NE. I myself have placed 6" to 10" rip rap in preparation for the crayfish but I would think that vegetation could probably work I myself wouldn't know maybe an expert will chime in.

RAH the papershell could probably survive fairly well in the weeds but what happens in the winter when the weeds die back and pond bottom is bare in early spring?

I was not sure if that would be a problem of not. Looks like I will need to add rip rap first. Thanks! I do have curly leaf pondweed as well, but I do not know if it provides cover in winter.

Curly Leaf does provide cover in winter early spring since it is a cold water plant.

Maybe I'll see about getting a few with the knowledge that they may not make it. Not sure if it is wise to have them shipped this time of year though?

RAH, I just received 300 papershells via UPS this morning and they all seemed to be in good shape when they arrived, but I am no expert maybe I was just lucky.

Did you get them out of NY?

Yes Sir I got them from smith creek fish farm in NY they were a little pricey but worth it in my opinion. also another thing worth mentioning is the $100 free shipping from smith creek doesn't go toward fish.

I'll see if I can get a quote from them. Was the shipping very high?

yes the shipping was pricey after shipping the crayfish came out to about $1 each, but they are the only place I could find that sells them. I would have much rather gathered my own from local sources but my job greatly limits my time at home.

Thanks. I'll get a quote. I have crayfish, but not papershells.

RAH, in this hot weather, I wouldn't try and save $$ by going with 2 day shipping. If you don't want to spend the $ for next day, wait until it cools down for them. A client did the 2 day thing a few summers ago and had 90% mortality.

He re-ordered and had one day shipping on the re-order. 0 morts.

Not wanting to hijack this thread, but why would you specifically need papershells, if you already have crayfish? I put 45 crayfish in my pond earlier this summer. I'm just waiting to see how they do. I was thinking the SMB I'm putting in this fall would eat them. Do SMB only eat papershells?

I think that papershells are more adapted to ponds than our local crayfish which seem to be more adapted to streams (burrowing type). Maybe I am wrong on that?

I'll be careful with the shipping. No response from my web request for a shipping quote yet.

It always amazes me that businesses have web sites with contact functionalist, but then seem to not monitor customer queries? That must impact their bottom line.

I assume you are referring to smith creeks awkward ordering system It took me threes tries over almost 10 days to get an order through to them. I guess either they are short handed or really busy but I wouldn't think there would be much business this time of year.

Maybe they are all on vacation and forgot to post that on their web site?

I was shocked how fast the crayfish multiplied for me here. I bet I only put in 100 maybe and in two years have millions. If it was not for the FA we would be able to find them under every rock.

This year every stone has one about 1" long this time of the year. Yesterday we caught one in the trap that had claws the size of my thumb and was about 6"s long.

As a kid I remember catching them in creeks and finding eggs under their tail. Every crayfish I have caught by hand in our pond I look for the eggs. I can't seem to find any with the eggs on them but they are re populating.

I do know bass with clean up all the crayfish first before minnows. If there is not enough places for them to hide or the water is too clear they better be able to breed fast.

Cheers Don.

I have a question regarding the GSH fry from Andersons if they were stocked in late April what size would they be that fall say first of October? thanks

Grown by that time.

ok I am going to reopen for a question my original stocking plan did not start until next spring, but with some quick work by the contractor and some heavy summer rains I am looking at a half full pond. And along with an early finish I managed to get most of my forage started including FHM, PSC, and grass shrimp around the middle of July. Does anybody see a reason why I couldn't go ahead and stock brooder GSH and RES along with more FHM this fall and bump up my YP stocking to next spring. Thanks

I found what appeared to be a 2.5" GSH dead in my newer pond today (just one). The pond also has YP, LCS, RES, and FHM. Of these species, is GSH the least tolerant of low DO?

I'm not sure about the LCS, but of the other fish, yes, it the least tolerant of low DO events.

Thank you - This pond is still developing and finding its equilibrium. The weather has turned cooler, so it should be good for now. This pond has lot of submerged weeds right now, but after the marginal plants and water lilies mature. I will be slowly raising the water level one foot over a few years. If the weeds persist at his level, then I will eventually add a couple grass carp.

Fish truck showed up today with 300 5"-8" YP and 150 3" RES. I will have to say finding somewhere to get yellow perch in northwest Arkansas has been a chore. I believe it will be worth the trouble though when they are biting hooks next spring. Now I just need to make sure they have plenty of cedars to spawn on this coming spring.

Yeah!!! Congrats and good luck.

Cmm

Hey, looking great and congratulations. There's nothing like the initial stocking, thank you for sharing with us. Good news is that is definitely a RES and definitely a YP!

Are these YP big enough to pull off a spawn this coming spring?

ozarkfisher, how are your grass shrimp doing? Surviving the predation?

Some of my larger perch when stocked this early spring had eggs ready to go and did do a very limited release of ribbons right after stocking. However I expect since many perch were 3-4" when stocked and now have grown nicely to adult size that I'll have more baby making than I really want next spring come ice out.

Bill Cody will know better about any egg laying events versus size of stockers. Also your weather patterns are different.

The perch in the picture is definitely big enough to spawn spring 2016. Start watching for eggs as soon as the water temps reach 48F. Eggs, which in the water look like toilet paper, are much easier to see on or among the tree branches if water visibility is 3'-4'. Some egg ribbons will also occur lying directly on the bottom in shallow water. Hatching occurs 6-10days later.

Canyon, I am not sure about the shrimp as soon as I get some time off from work to get home I will definitely be doing some checking on them and I will post what I find.

Bill, Thanks for the info I usually have time off from work around the holidays I will be on the pond looking for eggs. If I miss the eggs due to work would it be possible to sample perch with a minnow trap?

It is pretty easy to catch YOY in a minnow trap when the hatch of young perch has been good with survival of around several hundred fingerling YP per acre. Often trapping the fingerling perch (3"-5") is very good in the fall if they are common. Microfishing in late summer fall will also indicate how well the young of year recruitment has been.

http://www.fieldandstream.com/blogs/late...st-fish-you-can
http://microfishing.com/tackle/
http://www.tenkarabum.com/micro-fishing.html

See these prize catches by microfishing
http://forum.nanfa.org/index.php/topic/14646-2014-nanfa-convention-microfishing-reports/

I never realized there was such as thing as micro fishing this looks like something that would be fun and informative to do with the kids. Thanks for the links and info Bill

I've found you learn a LOT from microfishing. So much specific feel and paying close attention to detail.

It feels like a long time watching and waiting for fish to grow. I just added 300 HBG this spring. This brings my totals up to 300 HBG, 300 YP, and 150 RES. I have decided to go straight HSB for a predator since I am gone from home a lot. What would be a good number for ladder stocking them into the pond. the pond is roughly an acre in size. thanks

I'm not even close to being an expert but I can tell you I am pondering something similar in a pond that is about an acre and a half. I like your numbers except that I might go with 30 HSB to start since you are not there to fish and harvest them often. These should handle keeping the number of panfish in check pretty well.

ozarkfisher, with your chosen panfish and YP numbers, I would stock no less than 50 HSB and think 75 would still do very well. You may need to add supplemental feed till the YP have a solid spawn, or add 10# of golden shiners and 20# of FHM.

Stocking 20 4-6", 20 6-8" and 20 8-13" HSB would be great! Replacement/supplemental stockings would need to be 8" minimum

Thanks for the advice guys I am currently feeding Optimal 4 seconds a day out of my TH feeder. Also I have hundreds of GSH and FHM coming when the feeder goes off. I believe I can source 4"-6" and 6"-8" fish locally this fall I may go with 25 of each to start.

Have a small update after a nice break and vacation at home. something I did find very interesting was the fact that I accidently left a minnow trap in the pond all winter. When I brought it on shore it was completely covered in FA and on the inside was dozens of tiny 1" long grass shrimp along with many 1" paper shells. I was very excited to see both of them thriving and reproducing in the pond. The trap was set close to a very large pile of underwater rip rap so hopefully it is working as a nice home for both species. I did have pictures to share of them but shortly after I lost my phone to the pond while working on the dock.

Wow, good news on the grass shrimp and papershells. I put in grass shrimp a year ago, and haven't seen one since. The shipment got lost on the way from Nebraska to Missouri (thank you USP) but they seemed ok when released. I had put in 50 crayfish earlier last spring. Haven't seen one of those since either.
Might be time for me to put the minnow trap back out. All earlier efforts with all kinds of traps and nets, all resulted in nothing but thousands and thousands of tadpoles. Ha

Great news ozark on the grass shrimp. I have spotted some of mine at night with a strong light but during the day I'm sure they hang out in the FA or leaves. I've seined my shallows lately trying to capture the fast moving goldfish and have been surprised when a large shrimp, or some other critter shows up when I didn't know they were there.

Setter, I'm sure you have shrimp they are pretty resilient. Crayfish, not sure... They like rock piles to hide in.

Your accidental experiment of leaving the minnow trap in over the winter and it turning into a refuge for the small PK shrimp and crays gives me some ideas of purposeful created habitat for them.

A person could use 12-18" long sections of 6" plastic sewer septic drain field pipe (the kind with holes in it for water flow) and cover the ends with 3/4" or 1" hardware wire or plastic screen. Toss a few small rocks inside for additional surface area within and to make sure it stayed in place on the bottom. Then put these refuge habitats in a foot or two of water near other structure.

A rope could be attached if a person wanted to be able to monitor to see if they were being used.

You may have come up with a new structure idea!

Snrub,

I have concrete blocks stacked in long lines in about 2 feet of water and large rip rap piles that run from shore out to about 3-4 feet. But I was also rolling around the idea of maybe making some small metal frames this winter and covering them with screen or small expanded metal since the trap worked so well.

Setter,

Don't worry I am sure your shrimp and crays are fine I rarely see mine and when I do its usually random chance encounters like with the trap.

Thanks guys. I'm going to figure they are there. Will try the fish/minnow traps, and see what shows up. I'm hoping to see young YP and RES also..