Pond Boss Forums STOCKING A NEW POND Types of fish to choose Building new pond YP/SMB/RES HBG??

Thanks TJ I've just got some concerns about GSH after reading here on the forum if you experts still agree that I need them I would gladly use them, but if I don't need them that's a different story. Thanks

I'd recommend trying without, esp if pellet feeding, then resort to them if necessary. I think Spotfin Shiner and Lake Chubsuckers would be good additions...you just need to source them and allow them time to reproduce.

TJ,
Just curious.. I stocked GSH, but I'm thinking so many died in my grass matts, and have been picked off by the Kingfisher, that I don't have that many left. I see zero along the bank, and at the feeder. Still see lots of FHM, and I believe the YP, at the feeder.
The question is, can I add Spotfin Shiners, and Lake Chubsuckers after my YP have been stocked? The YP are approx 3-4". I am planning on adding SMB this fall, but could postpone until next year, or stock very small SMB this fall. I've added a fair amount of cover, (Cedar trees) but I'm thinking my FHM are going to go quickly once the YP get larger, and I add the SMB. Just thinking some additional forage fish might be beneficial, but I don't want to add them, and have them all picked off in a few days.
Hope this isn't a complete hijack.
Thanks,
Jeff

TJ is right. I was like you in that I'm worried that adult GSH will compete with the species that I want thriving in my pond. I will likely need them, as TJ alluded to, but I'm holding off until my predators can keep them in check.

StrGuy aka Jeff - You can add spotfin and LCS with the fingerling YP (3"-4") providing the spotfins and LCS are at least 1.5"-2" long. The fingerling YP will be focused on eating the fry of the FHM.

Thanks!
I need to find a source for spotfin and LCS..

The spotfin and steelcolor shiners and LCS are all native to MO. Spotfin and steelcolor shiners spawn the same way and either one would be very good in a pond with YP. A good naturalist or biology teacher would know where and how to collect them in MO.

Banded killifish are great but they do not provide a big meal for your bigger SMB. GSH can become a problem apparently but if you have YP and SMB to prey on them you should be fine.

I stocked BKF and spotfins in my pond, I think they have established but I am not sure as I have not seigned and they don't get suckered into the fish traps. Spotfin shiners are crevice spawners so to help ensure they establish you should create the proper spawning structure. I made structures out of blank cd's and washers that I hung from my dock, I have seen the spotfins hanging out here and I have seen eggs on the cd's:


Even a big spotfin can be eaten by a 12" SMB. A big 9-12" GSH is only vulnerable to a REALLY big smallmouth so they stand a better chance of creating a sustainable population.

Thanks for the advice everyone I believe I will go ahead and stock LCS and Spotfins in low densities due to the high price and stock GSH after I get some predators started in the pond. I guess another question would be can you stock to many forage species? Because right now I am looking at stocking FHM, LCS, spotfins, BKF, PS, Grass shrimp, and then GSH after YP go in.
Thanks all for the great advice

Pond should be done in a couple of days and with two springs and im sure some late spring showers would it be possible to stock any of these forage fish this fall to give them a jump on next spring?

I put in fathead minnows last fall when my pond was pretty muddy, brand new, and about 6' deep.
This spring the water had cleared (thanks to Rainman) it's deeper, but not yet full, and absolutely full of FHM. They really multiply fast. I think I put in 10 pounds (1 acre pond)
Rex added some more this spring, I don't think you can have too many.
Jeff

Sorry Ozark, I just saw you addressed some questions to me I didn't answer - I haven't checked this post in quite some time I've been traveling. Looks like you got them resolved though - great direction by Cody and Rockville.

For anyone interested in establishing forage base comprised of SFS, LCS, BKF, etc. - since they are not commonly available and so expensive, I encourage them to raise in forage cells which act as reproduction and grow out sanctuaries. I would collect offspring every year and leave plenty of brood fish in the cell to continue reproduction and stock the fish collected. If one continues this reproduction/stocking program annually one stands a better chance of getting the forage base established.

If you have a pond devoid of any predator fish, stocking the limited number of brood fish and allowing them a couple seasons to establish seems to be a good course of action, too.

Along the lines of a 'forage cell', TJ, to save on space it would help if those forage cells were WITHIN my current pond rather than digging new holes elsewhere in my front yard. do you have ideas how that could be done?

If I got a 100 gallon cattle water tank (plastic)or some 275 gal IBC totes and cut the tops off them, could I put them in the current shallow end of the pond and do it that way?

I was thinking I could cut a hole for water to fill them to counterweight them but is it to my advantage to keep the water in the cell separate from water in the pond (my groundwater pond fluctuates a lot and once water level is down I wouldn't be able to fill my forage cell as it would run out into the pond)

I guess I could have a guilliotine door with fine netting that I could open and close to let water in/out but keep fish in?

If I had a solid tank I could add water at will but wouldn't so easily be able to deal with water quality issues if I had to exchange the water.

This probably needs to be another thread, but was wondering how you did forage cells.

If you want to use your current pond as a growout cell you can do it with blocking nets. However, they won't work as well for reproduction cells as larval fish could easily escape through the blocking net and into oblivion, likely. So, you're looking at less recruitment. Eric West authored at least one article on the art of using blocking nets in primary pond to grow out fish.

You can find my forage cell construction on the forum somewhere - too much to relate in detail now. Need reliable water source [well or reliable runoff], design cell according to collection method [seining or gate valve]. Seining cell will be narrow, flat bottomed, and I'd make one end deeper than the other like a roller paint pan in order to collect fish in reduced area. Gate valve cell will be created so deepest part of pond is in area of pipe and very steep sides [2:1] to help facilitate collection of fish in deepest water. Anything less than 2:1 and fish can get stranded along the sides of the pond instead of being flushed through gate valve.

If you need specifics, feel free to call sometime, happy to relate my experiences with these different cells. I've done a few of each now.

Ozark, make some breeding like Ozark did and you'll be amazed at how fast and how many they reproduce. I find that just below the surface, the more it fills.

OOPS, meant like Rockvill did. That dang Bill D got me all flustered.

Unfortunately I had to go back to work, but my wife and oldest son bought and hand sorted 2 pounds of FHM for the pond today. Since the pond is about half full I decided it was time to start the forage stew. I also have grass shrimp and Papershell crayfish in the mail that should be here in a couple days.

We have learned that our Yellow perch are not as aggressive at eating our fathead minnows as I had expected in the original plan. I expect this has mostly to do with the fact we stocked 400 4-6" pellet trained perch as well as the water clarity staying to only 24" at the most.

This has allowed our minnow base to become the largest I have ever seen in a pond ever. The minnows are also not afraid to play soccer with a floating feed pellet while the perch are feeding on them.

Giving the minnow base a year heads start is the best thing any one pond owner can do for their fishery.

Cheers Don.

P.S. Paper shell crayfish grow very fast. Our second year first hatched in our pond crayfish get to 1.5"s the first year. Around three weeks ago they were about 1/4" from this year and millions.

Dono - What is the ratio of FHM to shiners in your pond? When you set a baited minnow trap how many FHM do you catch compared to shiners?

That's good to hear Don hopefully my forage base will do as well as yours has I to plan on buying feed trained perch next fall which gives me a little over a year to grow forage. A question just for curiosity how many crayfish did you initially stock with?

I am seeing the exact same thing as Don. My pond is full of FHM. Mostly from some I stocked last summer. The YP or RES haven't put a dent in them. The banks are thick with them, and even out in have middle when I'm in the canoe or swimming there are FHM everywhere. I have them both hitting the feed when the feeder goes off.
My visibility was around 3' a few days ago. SMB going in this fall. I suspect they will hit the FHM. If not, HBG...

Give the SMB 2 years and I suspect that the FHM will be in short supply or gone completely.

I should have some nice sized SMB by then!

SetterG - the trick to SMB success will be to have the right forage available for the smallies to keep them growing when the FHM are gone.

I now have a 10-15' thick mat of submerged plants all around the pond. Do you think that papershell crayfish will do well in these plants without rocks to hide in?