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#384352 08/06/14 07:17 PM
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Hey Guy's,

I am going to Shepard's Sportsfish Hatchery in Louisiana this weekend to look around. I will later this year be stocking my newly constructed pond. (Slightly less than 1/2 surface acre).

I intend to only have HBG and LMB in my pond.

On there site they offer the following Hybrids:
Hybrid Coppernose Bluegill
Giant Flordia Hybrid Bream
Hybrid Bluegill Bream

Do you guys recommend any certain questions I should ask? Any personal experience/preference in the fish that I mentioned above?

Thank's Guy's
Chad

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I would ask them to explain what each of those three fish are..as in, a hybrid of what??


"Forget pounds and ounces, I'm figuring displacement!"

If we accept that: MBG(+)FGSF(=)HBG(F1)
And we surmise that: BG(>)HBG(F1) while GSF(<)HBG(F1)
Would it hold true that: HBG(F1)(+)AM500(x)q.d.(=)1.5lbGRWT?
PB answer: It depends.
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Those hybrid sunfish are uncommon and unique. Be skeptical. Get as good of explanations as possible. Maybe even get names of people in your area who have them so you can visit with these fish owners. Pond owners love to talk about their fish to other pond owners.


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I don't think HBG will provide enough forage for your LMB also I'd throw in some RES..


I believe in catch and release. I catch then release to the grease..

BG. CSBG. LMB. HSB. RES.

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Chad, What are you stocking to feed the bream and LMB? Hybrid gills won't produce nearly enough forage to grow your bass, unless only stocking 3-4 LMB. Also, unless you plan to feed commercial fish pellets a few times a day, you'll need minnows to feed the bream.

I am guessing the "Giant Florida Bream" is like a "Georgia Giant"...the reverse sex cross of the standard hybrid of Male Coppernose and Female Green Sunfish.



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Thanks guy's. SP I will definitely inquire about the history/background of there Hybrids. And I will share that info back on this thread.

Bill, good idea to ask them for some references, that didn't even cross my mind.

BGK, Rainman, I intend to feed pellets via feeder from day one and whatever forage fish is needed/recommended. Goal will be definitely to have maximum fish growth. (My 2 boys will be trying to catch them the day I stock. Lol).

Rainman, I was kinda thinking the same thing about the Florida Hybrids compared to the Georgia. I went back and read the entire thread about them. Will definitely be wary.

Thanks,
Chad

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Chad, are you aware that Hybrid gills are a "put and take" fish? meaning you will need to replace hybrids as they are caught and harvested. You might want to consider stocking regular Coppernose Bluegill. You will get excellent sizes and growth rates, have no need to re-stock, they are very catchable, and they will spawn well enough to support LMB.

If you like that scenario, I would suggest the following:

5 pounds Fathead Minnow
5 pounds Gambusia
FHM and Gams stocked asap

800 2-4" CNBG
200 2-4" RES
Stocked early this fall

35-50 3-5" LMB
stocked late next spring (2015)

You could also toss in a few channel cats if you like them, but I would not suggest more than 25



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It depends on the goals and how many fish are harvested. Sparkplug has good results with HBG and LMB, but his goal is large HBG, and the LMB are there just to control the HBG offspring. (the LMB learned to eat pellets too)

BTW Tony, great articles!!!!!


www.hoosierpondpros.com


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3/4 to 1 1/4 ac pond LMB, SMB, PS, BG, RES, CC, YP, Bardello BG, (RBT & Blue Tilapia - seasonal).
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Rainman, thank you very much for the stocking suggestion. One of the many things I have learned here in a short time frame is the "what is your pond goal". And I should have mentioned it first. And my fish that I stock this fall are not in stone yet. You vets here have so much good info that I read daily.

My main goal is to have my pre-teen sons, nephew's & nieces, catch the biggest, meanest and most ultra lite line snapping bream they can before they think it is not cool to hang out with dad or there Uncle anymore.
Restocking yearly, twice a year or feeding year round is not a problem. As you said though, I will need to track numbers due to HBG slow production rate and likelihood of that reproduction being the GSF.

So, I am REALLY on the fence with HBG vs CNBG. Ha. I guess that's the fun of starting a new pond.

Chad

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Go 50/50 mix. In 2, 3 or 4 years the CNBG might outpace the HBG size wise.


www.hoosierpondpros.com


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3/4 to 1 1/4 ac pond LMB, SMB, PS, BG, RES, CC, YP, Bardello BG, (RBT & Blue Tilapia - seasonal).
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If you truly want some exciting times fighting big bluegills, I'm going to go all in and recommend the HBG.....and I don't often do that.

1) Your goal is line-snapping fishing excitement with bluegills as the targeted fish.
2) You're willing to feed supplementally, and restock as necessary.
3) Your pond is just the right size for a limited recruitment bluegill.
4) Your willing to use LMB as a control measure, rather than a targeted species.

I've never caught a coppernose bluegill, so I can't speak directly as to their fighting ability...but I suppose that it is on par with a northern BG of comparable size. What I do know, is that a HBG will put a similarly sized northern BG to absolute shame with it's power, especially on light tackle. Hands down, no comparison. I'm talking holding-your-breath-hoping-the-line-holds, kind of excitement.

HBG grow very rapidly for the first couple years, and will outpace our native BG pretty easily. Ultimate growth potential still belongs to a "regular" BG however.

I have found that getting them to a pound and a quarter is easy, and a pound and a half is fairly common also. Above that, and it becomes more difficult. Two pounders are pretty rare, and claims of three pounders have been just that where my efforts are concerned...just claims, with no proof forthcoming. I have absolutely seen photos of three pound native bluegills though! wink

HBG are not for every pond, but your circumstances sound pretty close to ideal for utilizing hybrids rather than native, at least to me.


"Forget pounds and ounces, I'm figuring displacement!"

If we accept that: MBG(+)FGSF(=)HBG(F1)
And we surmise that: BG(>)HBG(F1) while GSF(<)HBG(F1)
Would it hold true that: HBG(F1)(+)AM500(x)q.d.(=)1.5lbGRWT?
PB answer: It depends.
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Chad, like sparky said, if you don't mind the feeding and restocking, your pond is a nice size for the HBG. Just like you mentioned about "what are your goals", you will also want to consider years down the road when your young boys are not so young. At a half acre, even a complete draining/restart won't be oppressively expensive if ever warranted.

Have fun, play with the species! It's YOUR pond!



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Consider getting and reading the last two issues of Pond Boss Magazine where Sprkplug (Tony Livingston) has two great articles about growing HBG. 2014 May-June "Hybrid bluegills .... Benefit or Boondoggle?" and Jul-Aug "Art of the Science of Growing Huge Hybrid Sunfish". Good how to articles.

We assume that you have read these threads from the PBoss Forum Archives? It includes pictures of some of Sprkplugs HBG.
http://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=256325#Post256325

I think in just 1/2 ac that after 6-10 yrs of HBG experience and you want to switch to adding some pure strain BG,,,, you should be able to do this providing the add stock BG are 5"-7" long and too big to eat by the crowded smaller size LMbass necessary for growing numerous big HBG. As mentioned pure strain BG will soon outpace the reproduction of HBG. Then if this does not work draining and or chemical renovation is still an option.

If you are going to feed pellets and want additional tackle busting excitement, then consider adding 10-16 HSB into the HBG mix and reduce a comperable number of stocked LMB by 10-20. I doubt you will regret using this option. As HSB are removed or die replace them with 6"-8" HSB.


Last edited by Bill Cody; 08/07/14 02:28 PM.

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Originally Posted By: Chad Horn


My main goal is to have my pre-teen sons, nephew's & nieces, catch the biggest, meanest and most ultra lite line snapping bream they can before they think it is not cool to hang out with dad or there Uncle anymore.
Restocking yearly, twice a year or feeding year round is not a problem. As you said though, I will need to track numbers due to HBG slow production rate and likelihood of that reproduction being the GSF.

So, I am REALLY on the fence with HBG vs CNBG. Ha. I guess that's the fun of starting a new pond.

Chad


Chad, my pond is only about a year and a half old, but will give you my experience.

I purchased only BG and not any HBG, but a few HBG "snuck in". I catch 5 or so hybrids for every 100 catches of BG (and have been moving the HBG to another pond, so not counting them twice).

For comparison purposes, if the fishing is really tough ( not biting), the likelihood of catching a HBG is a lot greater because they will bite when the BG will not. That is one advantage to the hybrid in my opinion. My largest BG are about the same length as the HBG, but the HBG is significantly "thicker" so weighs more at the same age. ANY of the HBG I catch are among the largest of the gills I catch. When I catch a hybrid, it is not going to be a smaller fish.

That is my limited experience with hybrids. Easier to catch and grow fast. So if you are wanting to get the fishery up to fishing size quickly and lots of action even when fishing is tough, the HBG fill the bill in my limited experience opinion.

I've been putting my HBG that I catch (8-9" in about 15 months after stocking) in another pond that already has GSF in it to grow them out.


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Guy's,

All I can say is Thanks for the AWESOME suggestions. Bill, thanks for the links. And I will be a PondBoss subscriber today.

Also, I will report back what the hatchery tells me about there Hybrid history this weekend if anyone is interested.

Thanks again to each of you.

Chad

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Chad, I would be very interested in hearing what the hatchery says.


"Forget pounds and ounces, I'm figuring displacement!"

If we accept that: MBG(+)FGSF(=)HBG(F1)
And we surmise that: BG(>)HBG(F1) while GSF(<)HBG(F1)
Would it hold true that: HBG(F1)(+)AM500(x)q.d.(=)1.5lbGRWT?
PB answer: It depends.
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Ok Guy's,

Went to the Hatchery this morning.

1st question I asked the guy was about his Hybrid Bream types. What was the difference between the 3 Hybrids they advertise. He said "Nothing Different". The only Hybrid they offer is the Hybrid Coppernose. He couldn't really tell me why they carry 3 names on there website, other than some people like to say Florida Giants, or HBG.

Then I threw the question out about having to restock Hybrids as I remove them due to the slower reproduction & likelihood of the GSF when they do reproduce. He clearly said after I asked him twice. These will will NOT reproduce back to the GSF due to the Male Dominate CNBG. Says they offspring will eventually be the CNBG. .....?.....

I then asked how do I know I will be getting true Hybrids when I come get my fish. He did tell me that they drain there Hatchery ponds every year and start fresh with CNBG and GSF to guarantee a F1 Hybrid. Said there will start to sell there new hatch around Labor Day & through the fall.

Overall, I am glad I made the trip. I did think it would be a bit more "professionally" ran when I got there, but I guess there is not much going on while fish are in the water doing there thing. And this place is also a $2,500/yr Fishing Club with multiple ponds on it. The one guy that was there was very nice and answered anything I asked. I did not get any references from him, as I didn't really ask.
But I am kind of skeptical about the reproduction comment and the 3 Hybrid names they offer on there site. www.stockapond.com Unclear to me why a business would do that.

Anyway. That was my trip.
Thanks
Chad

Last edited by Chad Horn; 08/09/14 06:26 PM.
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Chad - thanks for the good update. Informative and interesting information. I too question the successive generations of the HBG after about 10-20 years of interspecies reproduction. Bass when kept abundant will keep a lot of the F generations consumed.

Last edited by Bill Cody; 08/10/14 01:40 PM.

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Thanks Chad. I still feel that limiting recruitment is key to managing HBG, which would render the topic of "what are these fish going to turn into?" a moot point. I wish hatcheries would spend more time educating their potential customers as to how to properly manage these fish, rather than trying to convince them that the dreaded GSF syndrome won't occur with "their" hybrids....I feel if these fish are managed properly, it won't be an issue with anyone's hybrids, regardless of parentage.


"Forget pounds and ounces, I'm figuring displacement!"

If we accept that: MBG(+)FGSF(=)HBG(F1)
And we surmise that: BG(>)HBG(F1) while GSF(<)HBG(F1)
Would it hold true that: HBG(F1)(+)AM500(x)q.d.(=)1.5lbGRWT?
PB answer: It depends.
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Sprkplug has good comments from year of experience with HBG. I think from my experience about 85%-98% of the people who buy the hybrids will not properly manage them due to numerous reasons. Stock them and basically let them do their thing.


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