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Yeah that's crazy. I am surprised that Gast does not produce a motor that can handle colder temps.


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It's just the starting torque which is limited. Run has yet to be seen.

If conditions were in the design operating range, would be OK. Unfortunately, not much to choose from.

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Ordered a 20' Koenders double diaphragm windmill yesterday. Gonna take some DO & Temp readings first thing when I get out there this summer and then throw up the mill. I know it won't get me to where I need to be but it's a start. It will be interesting to take some readings at the end of the month before we leave and see if there has been any improvement. Also gonna get the water tested and see what's up.

It will have the anti freeze control on it. Has anyone ever modified one of those things to hold more alcohol for extended times between maintenance?? Could I rig up a 5 gallon bucket to work for that? I could possibly get the alcohol topped off in December, but that would most likely be it until mid May.

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Koenders:

If the airline has a slope to the pond, I doubt that if you will run thru the whole tank of alcohol in a winter. When you get the unit, make a note of what bearing size is needed for the windmill shaft. They make 2 sizes, and if it goes bad (which it will) you won't be happy if you have to climb up there just to figure out what size to order. You might want to order a diaphragm repair kit in a year or 2 - 3-4 years is about the life of them.

Alcohol - get a 5 gallon can from an auto body paint supplier - buying it in pint to quart containers from the pharmacy is nuts. Running a larger airline than what comes with the unit is a wise idea. The ones that I've seen all come with 3/8" airline. Just do some DIY and upsize the fittings. The anti-freeze unit doesn't kick in until it senses a blockage in the airline, so a larger ID line will have less chances of getting blocked, which will reduce the amount of alcohol comsumption (of the windmill wink grin )


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Originally Posted By: esshup
Koenders:

If the airline has a slope to the pond, I doubt that if you will run thru the whole tank of alcohol in a winter. When you get the unit, make a note of what bearing size is needed for the windmill shaft. They make 2 sizes, and if it goes bad (which it will) you won't be happy if you have to climb up there just to figure out what size to order. You might want to order a diaphragm repair kit in a year or 2 - 3-4 years is about the life of them.

Alcohol - get a 5 gallon can from an auto body paint supplier - buying it in pint to quart containers from the pharmacy is nuts. Running a larger airline than what comes with the unit is a wise idea. The ones that I've seen all come with 3/8" airline. Just do some DIY and upsize the fittings. The anti-freeze unit doesn't kick in until it senses a blockage in the airline, so a larger ID line will have less chances of getting blocked, which will reduce the amount of alcohol comsumption (of the windmill wink grin )


Ahhh got it. Great advice! Thanks!! I did get the optional "tippable mounts" for the base so I can just tip it down to work on it. We have tons of visitors come thru so muscle to help is no prob. I am planning on getting the airline from you so don't let me forget to go bigger! smile. I also have a friend that owns an auto body place so I will get with him! I hope we got even more wind there than I think we do!
Thanks again for all the help!


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Anytime.

Just talked to one of the ME's at Vertex today regarding their solar system. They had done some testing in the field in cold climate. Here's what he said:

Operating Temp

a. We have ran the compressor at 0* F for an extended period of time in a freezer down here and haven’t had any issues.

b. The Compressor that is in Ohio got to temperatures as low as -29 (F) middle of night not running, and coldest max temp of 1 (F) during the day. (Chardon, Ohio)

c. The Electrical components are “Industrial Grade” (-40 to 212 F
)

I've run a Thomas diaphragm compressor (albet a "grid" system that ran 24/7) that was in a very open enclosure. No way would the temp in the enclosure rise even a degree due to compressor temp, but since the compressor never shut off it isn't an "apples to apples" comparison. But, the compressor has seen temps in the low teens (below zero) and it lasted 10 years before needing to be rebuilt.


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Originally Posted By: esshup
Anytime.

Just talked to one of the ME's at Vertex today regarding their solar system. They had done some testing in the field in cold climate. Here's what he said:

Operating Temp

a. We have ran the compressor at 0* F for an extended period of time in a freezer down here and haven’t had any issues.

b. The Compressor that is in Ohio got to temperatures as low as -29 (F) middle of night not running, and coldest max temp of 1 (F) during the day. (Chardon, Ohio)

c. The Electrical components are “Industrial Grade” (-40 to 212 F
)

I've run a Thomas diaphragm compressor (albet a "grid" system that ran 24/7) that was in a very open enclosure. No way would the temp in the enclosure rise even a degree due to compressor temp, but since the compressor never shut off it isn't an "apples to apples" comparison. But, the compressor has seen temps in the low teens (below zero) and it lasted 10 years before needing to be rebuilt.



What did they say about altitude?

In Pueblo, the pipe mill specified everything to -40F "OPERATING TEMPERATURE", not storage temp. Buzzing up another 5000', well wink

I deal with temp ratings all the time. I don't think you understand what you outlined in Blue. It's like electrical.

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Originally Posted By: JKB


What did they say about altitude?

In Pueblo, the pipe mill specified everything to -40F "OPERATING TEMPERATURE", not storage temp. Buzzing up another 5000', well wink

I deal with temp ratings all the time. I don't think you understand what you outlined in Blue. It's like electrical.


JKB, just passing on what I was told. I agree, electrical component temperature parameters won't dictate how the compressor side of the system will work, and one day that cold does not show how well a system will handle a 30 day stretch of sub zero temps. But, data is data and I figure a bit more information is better than none.

I've run a Thomas for around 10 years in an unheated enclosure that was only protected from rain - no thermal insulation at all. Granted, it is a grid system, and yes, it ran 24/7 during the winter, not starting and stopping. And, yes, a Thomas isn't an apples to apples comparison.

As for the how well it will perform at 10,000' elevation, that question was asked and it hasn't been answered yet. wink


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I would forego the alcohol and run RV antifreeze instead.


"Forget pounds and ounces, I'm figuring displacement!"

If we accept that: MBG(+)FGSF(=)HBG(F1)
And we surmise that: BG(>)HBG(F1) while GSF(<)HBG(F1)
Would it hold true that: HBG(F1)(+)AM500(x)q.d.(=)1.5lbGRWT?
PB answer: It depends.
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Originally Posted By: esshup
Originally Posted By: JKB


What did they say about altitude?

In Pueblo, the pipe mill specified everything to -40F "OPERATING TEMPERATURE", not storage temp. Buzzing up another 5000', well wink

I deal with temp ratings all the time. I don't think you understand what you outlined in Blue. It's like electrical.


JKB, just passing on what I was told. I agree, electrical component temperature parameters won't dictate how the compressor side of the system will work, and one day that cold does not show how well a system will handle a 30 day stretch of sub zero temps. But, data is data and I figure a bit more information is better than none.

I've run a Thomas for around 10 years in an unheated enclosure that was only protected from rain - no thermal insulation at all. Granted, it is a grid system, and yes, it ran 24/7 during the winter, not starting and stopping. And, yes, a Thomas isn't an apples to apples comparison.

As for the how well it will perform at 10,000' elevation, that question was asked and it hasn't been answered yet. wink



It has been asked and it's a derate of about 24% on the compressor side of things due to the thin air, no matter which compressor. Think of the Mopar Mile High Nationals. Those huffers don't huff as well as they do at Pomona.

The electrical may only be 20%, but needs to be verified.

At that elevation, if your terminating uninsulated wires, the minimum spacing is 9.1mm, otherwise you could get arcs jumping from one to the next. You need to lay this out quite carefully to avoid potential issues.

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I got a little PTC heater the other day. Got a 120V model.

I wired it up and plugged it into the outlet strip in my office. I waited for about half an hour and it barely got warm.

Hmmmmm..., so I called them up. Hey, this thing ain't working. Guy asks what the ambient temp is. About 70F. He said it's self regulating and won't kick out at that temp.

So, the next morning when the building was pretty cold I plugged it in. Low and behold, it was kicking out some heat. As the building warmed up it regulated itself down to about nothing. I'll try it in the freezer and see how it works.

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Hahaha!! You gonna do heater vs Freezer and see which one wins?? That seems like exactly what the heater will be facing up there! Did the capacitor come yet?

Last edited by wbuffetjr; 04/25/15 07:00 AM.

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Only going to use the heaters for spot heat to warm up the compressor heads, and not heat up the entire enclosure. That would take some juice.

Didn't stop by the main shop yesterday to see if the cap came in. I'll swing by later today and see.

Ohhh Boy, got a PO for a control package on a new rig at a fiberglass factory. I dread going in there and try get out as quick as possible, but am doomed to a solid week of nasty itching in August. Told my coworker he is doomed as well, and he just said, You Suck!

This place is really hot, even in the winter, so have to cool the controls. Can't use fan's with filters because of the fiberglass dust floating around. That would plug the filters up pretty quick, so have to use cold air guns.

One area I am looking into to try compensate for the thin air on the mountain is an air amplification rig. Not quite the same as a cold air gun, but would use compressed air from the compressor to increase the CFM while maintaining required PSI. I do have a couple of different gizmos from Vaccon to try. If I get 1 or 2 extra CFM, it may be a benefit.

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That sounds rough! Hopefully you can send the co worker in on the front lines! We are so far out of my league on this tech stuff it's not even funny!


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It's gonna really suck!

Co-worker only hooks up wires and verifies the connections, then he's gone. I doubt I could pawn my part off on another guy at work. The existing mechanics make for a fairly complicated program, and no one here is in tune with the hardware and software required, so I'm kinda stuck.

Nice thing is, I may get out of Purgatory a week earlier laugh

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Originally Posted By: wbuffetjr
Did the capacitor come yet?


I didn't see anything in receiving or my in box. I should have checked my office, but doubt anyone would have put it up there. In the last 19 months, I've probably only spent about 10-15 hours in that office. I only go in there to get something I need. My other office is in the middle of a 40,000 sq ft building, and I'm usually the only one there. Kinda weird, but hey, I get the same parking spot every day laugh

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Originally Posted By: JKB

In the last 19 months, I've probably only spent about 10-15 hours in that office. I only go in there to get something I need. My other office is in the middle of a 40,000 sq ft building, and I'm usually the only one there. Kinda weird, but hey, I get the same parking spot every day laugh


Sounds like a mad scientist kinda office!


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Originally Posted By: wbuffetjr
Originally Posted By: JKB

In the last 19 months, I've probably only spent about 10-15 hours in that office. I only go in there to get something I need. My other office is in the middle of a 40,000 sq ft building, and I'm usually the only one there. Kinda weird, but hey, I get the same parking spot every day laugh


Sounds like a mad scientist kinda office!


Let's just keep it at mad and drop the rest. wink

My most favorite T-Shirt had a saying on it. "Of all the things I've ever lost, I miss my mind the most". laugh


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Hahaha! Ok!

All I am gonna say is if you come out and shoot an Elk one day, we need to have you in your Panama Jack outfit for the photos!!!!


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Just talked to one of my friends out there that has a place lower on the mountain. They took their CJ 5 up yesterday. Got to their place ok and made it to about 400' below our place. They said the snow was still 3' deep there and they couldn't go any further. The road up there does through some pretty thick timber. I would like to think there is some open water by now since the sun can get to the lake but maybe not.

Last edited by wbuffetjr; 05/03/15 08:29 AM.

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If the sun get's to it, there maybe a chance the snow has melted back quite a bit. It don't take long here if the sun get's to it.

I've been out to my place well after the snow has melted wearing a t-shirt on a nice day buzzing around on the tractor, and there is still stuff frozen in the ground out in the woods.

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Well, it has been snowing at the cabin for the last two days!! I was hoping for some pics of the lake full this coming weekend but that's probably not gonna happen now. This is TORTURE! lol


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Pic of the snow taken two weeks ago when my friend tried to make it up to the cabin. This is about 400' lower in elevation than our place. Hoping he can make it up there in the next week or so and get some pics of the lake. Funny thing is he said in 20 years of going up there, this is the farthest he had ever made it so early.


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Is that a pond in the background on the right? Kinda difficult to tell on this screen.

I get a similar type of melt where around certain trees or groups of trees the snow melts first, and the open areas where the ground froze really well, melts last. When you get into the really thick stuff, the ground can stay frozen for a while longer.

Don't seem too bad up there tho.

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Yes that is a little 1/3 acre pond you can see in the pic. More to the right and just out of the pic is another 3 - 1/2 acre pond. Their are tons of holes with water in them all over up there.

The snow comes off really fast once the sun gets to it. The road is the problem. It goes through a lot of dark timber and takes forever to clear.


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