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Joined: Feb 2011
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Thanks for more ideas. I visited the ponds again and added some rock to the pond being set up for BG. The pond has some structure in it already, including some stumps and floating/partially submerged logs. The pond inflow drops water on to rocks to help oxygenate the pond. I added some rocky areas to the bottom. I was hoping to create a greater diversity, as the bottom is mainly clay and although there is a healthy population of insects, there is no cover growing in the deeper areas of the pond. As the springtime warms up, water lily and pickerelweed will provide some cover.

Our intention is to bring in some native hornwort and create pockets of it on the bottom so as to create more cover. Our local nurseries carry native submerged pond plants.

My friend ordered 100 BG from Zett's, 1-2" stock and with much discussion we will only plant them in 1 of the 1/4 acre ponds. They should be there in 2 weeks!!

The second 1/4 acre pond, located in a more wooded area will be left to experiment with some local cutthroat or rainbow trout. It will likely stay cooler due to tree cover.

We will definitely bring in some sculpin and try to create some rocky zones for them in the trout pond.

One thing we observe though, is that we are getting some kind of FA developing in parts of both ponds. I know that this does provide food and cover for small inverts, as well as tadpoles. But I was wonder, preemptively, how we should limit its growth if it starts to get more extensive?

Chemicals are out of the question, and grass carp are prohibited in this state. Any ideas?

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Tilapia will sometimes help but not once it gets well established. Aeration maybe could be of benefit.

Without chemicals, I think I would get a rake and start sweating.


It's not about the fish. It's about the pond. Take care of the pond and the fish will be fine. PB subscriber since before it was in color.

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Trout love to eat mottled sculpin in my neck of the woods.

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If need be, we will rake and start sweatin' in the future. But, for now its only minor growth.

I looked at the invasive fish list for WA state. Looks like black chin tilapia is a no-no. Dunno about specific regs. on other species of tilapia. I think if it was warmer in this area, and the regs permitted it, some kind of tilapia would not be a bad choice as food fish for my buddy to plant.

I was wondering if ya'll had any other good ideas for a cover (submerged plant) for deeper areas of the pond? We were planning to go with some kind of native hornwort, but open to other suggestions.

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Pond update:

Got about 150 BG delivered via mail. Unfortunately, due to travel stress and the stress of introduction to the new ponds, much of the stock died. Around 20-30 survived in each pond. Enough to breed, but not enough to fish. At least not for a while.

The FA growth is practically gone now. A combination of tadpole and insect grazing took care of it.

We added some more pond plants, including several additional water lilies, water plantain, pennywort, cattails and wild rice.

I have finally got to observe some of the fish that survived. Several of them look very plump when seen from above.

At what size do bluegill start reproducing? A few of the plump fish are around 4" long, 1 particular one - the largest - is about 6". If the fish reproduce at a smaller size, does that mean the stock will be stunted?

The fish we purchased are jumbo BG from Zetts.

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BG can reproduce at 3"-4" in size. This will be especially true in a new pond where the BG are trying to fill the biomass such as yours. If you have no predators in your pond and your BG do spawn which is highly likely by end of summer, you are going to really need to work hard in removing large numbers of the small BG or yes, you will end up with very bad stunting.

In a small 1/4 acre pond, this can easy be done via seining, trapping and other means of manual removal. If you are trying to grow eating sized BG, you almost cannot remove enough BG. The few that are left will grow to eating size with the limited competition you create by removing the vast majority of the offspring.

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Thanks CJB,

Having gotten good looks at the fish, 2 of them are very likely pregnant as they are significantly plumper than any other fish.

I plan to catch 1 or 2 small LMB and introduce them into the pond. I am wondering when would be a good time for that? For now there is only about 20 fish. Should they be given a bit of time to reproduce?

Also, we are planning to possibly bring in some elodea to help cover more of the pond bottom and produce more biomass. Right now there is still a fair amount of relatively bare clay bottom.

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I wouldn't pick elodea as a species to introduce to your pond. There are far better options.

If you have only BG, they are not pregnant. They may be egg carrying or milt carrying, but they do not bear live young. Stocking 1 LMB now would be fine. If you stock 2 or more now, you run the risk of getting males and females and ending up with a reproducing population. You decide if you want that...

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Originally Posted By: CJBS2003
I wouldn't pick elodea as a species to introduce to your pond. There are far better options.


+1

If you introduce Elodea into your pond this year then you will be fighting it for years to come. Elodea is highly invasive, grows very fast and will produce thick, dense mats.


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Thanks. I should have said gravid, not pregnant.

We will reconsider the elodea. We were thinking of a native species that is common in WA state. Part of our challenge is that the other species we have tried growing at the pond bottom have failed.

What other species do ya'll recommend?

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Observed definite breeding behavior from several fish today including defending an area, and enticing a gravid female into the same area.


To our surprise, it appears we have a mix of species. Our order from Zetts was suppose to be the BG (and "redgill" stock which they don't separate out before sending). What is a redgill by the way? Red ear? Pumpkinseed?

It looks like because of how few of our stock survived, we will likely have hybrids in at least one of the ponds. What should we do?

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Lord only knows, but I'm guessing pumpkinseeds. Hybrids are bound to happen in small ponds. Nothing you can do really. I wouldn't stress over it. Check the old posts, there are several old posts on good aquatic vegetation species.

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Okay, I have had a good chance to observe the fish. There are several of them guarding nests right now. I have observed 16 fish have survived in that one pond.

The fish are growing fast, the largest bluegill is already between 7 and 8 inches long. Despite the very cool, wet summer the fish seem to be doing well.

Several of the males defending nests are pumpkinseeds, 1 is a green sunfish. There are also several actual bluegill swimming around in the pond, but none are guarding nests. Perhaps they are females.

Is a bluegill x pumpkinseed cross going to a good thing?

What advice do you guys have for what should be done now?

Should we just kick back and observe? Should we take any particular action?

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I live in Western WA in Snohomish County. I have a 75" by 85" or so natural pond. I put 50 real small goldfish in it 3 years ago and 50 trout a year and a half ago. The pond is at its deepest maybe 8 feet. There is lots of natural vegetation and frogs and insects and such in it. I have never fed the fish. I very rarely see a goldfish in it, I saw one a month or so ago it was about 5 or 6 inches long. I can see trout anytime in there I got em at maybe 1 inch long and they are 4 to 6 inches now. I have many ducks and a pair of geese who live at the pond in the warmer months but leave in the winter, strangely last winter 2 ducks and 3 ducklings stayed all winter. Last winter was very mild the pond only froze for 4 days all winter. I put a large drainage pipe on side of the pond because it would spill out when it rained hard for a few days. It stays at a pretty constant level now. It has 2 very small mini water flows that flow into it. Ive never seen a dead fish but I have no idea how many are in there now. There is lots of vegetation and you cannot see if there are fish in the middle areas. Ive seen maybe 10 different trout at 1 time. Im not sure if the fish would live if we had a real cold winter but we have not had one since I stocked it.

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Welcome to PB fattball. 75 x 85 inches or feet?

It ought to stay full in that area.


It's not about the fish. It's about the pond. Take care of the pond and the fish will be fine. PB subscriber since before it was in color.

Without a sense of urgency, Nothing ever gets done.

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75 by 85 feet but its closer to circular then rectangle.

Last edited by fattball; 04/18/15 03:12 AM.
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Welcome to PBF Fattball!

Sounds like you have a nice little over .1 acre pond. How deep is it? Are you thinking you want to make some changes?

Again,

Welcome!

Bill D.


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I have drained the pond down a few feet by digging out the side of it. Its way down now but the fish are still ok. I have been clearing some of the trees from the sides that are growing into the pond. I will let it refill soon. I'm also fencing the pond area so my dogs cannot try to eat the geese and ducks. The depth varies based on the rainfall but in the middle areas its way over me head so id say 8 feet in the deepest parts. The whole area would flood over before I put in the drain pipe. You can see what im doing if you watch this video. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_yeF76hYgbE

Last edited by fattball; 04/19/15 08:08 AM.
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