Pond Boss Forums INTRO Questions & Observations Recommendations for Optimum-Sized Pond (BG-LMB)

I am hoping to excavate some pit ponds in our pasture. Primary usage is fishing for kids and grandkids, with a LMB-BG population.

I know there are an endless number of trade-offs, but I would like to start a discussion among the PB experts to see what people might do different in hindsight from their own ponds.

The ponds will be about 90% excavation since only a very shallow natural waterway exists through the pasture. The land is almost a perfect "blank slate" at this time, and the lay of the land will have very little control over the pond configuration.

If you had the money to excavate 3 acres to an average depth of eight feet, then how would you optimize your fishery? I was thinking of building three ponds of 1 acre each.

Each would drain into the next lowest pond. I could have slightly different management in each pond - a few big LMB in one pond, and a hot BG pond for the little kids, etc.

I am sure Cecil could handle thirty ponds that were each 1/10th of an acre. What would each of you recommend to yield the best results for a less expert manager?

[Site details in next post.]

Thanks, Rod

Hey FishinRod,

Is your intent to try for a catch and release fishery or are you wanting to harvest and have some good fish dinners?

The site is located in south-central Kansas.

The soil is loam with some clay-loam in the deeper layers. I can excavate the ponds with a dozer and gently slope the spoils just beyond the boundaries of the ponds. Hopefully, the short push will help keep the costs down. [The soil is a little too sandy for optimum pond building, so I may have to chase my best clay layers a little bit.]

The shallow waterway drains about 77 acres. However, the pasture is native grass so it takes a pretty big rain to yield significant surface run-off. I don't believe the run-off will be sufficient to keep the ponds full.

Fortunately, I have a creek with a 70,000 acre watershed that runs through the middle of our property. Every decent rain fills up an oxbow pond beside the creek. The water is very clean, and I can pump it a few feet uphill to the highest pond. I intend to pump a little bit more than my evaporation/seepage rate, and let the overflow go to each successive lower pond.

If I can refine my design ideas with the help of the PB experts, then I will go out with a backhoe in a few weeks and dig some test trenches.

Bill,

Thanks for the quick-draw on your reply. You beat my follow-up post while I was still typing more information.

The ponds will have to serve for both "catch & release" and eating. I swear my son could eat at least a half pound of grilled salmon by the time he was three years old. I am sure my family could eat way more fish than the ponds could provide.

My hope is to manage for the best "catch & release" fishing, and we will eat whatever is required for managing a certain size or species (plus hooking mortalities).

My kids love to fish. They also have cousins that love to fish, and they even have second cousins that they see for outdoor recreation. I suspect I need one pond that can handle a lot of fishing pressure.

P.S. I forgot to add that our home is 45 minutes away from the farm.

Hey Rod,

The fact that yer gonna happily harvest as required should open up a lot of different stocking scenarios from the experts. I am sure they can provide you with lots of ideas.

IMO A good investment for you at this stage of the game would be getting a copy of "A Perfect Pond..Want One" by Bob Lusk and "Just Add Water" by Mike Otto. Both books are available at the Pond Boss store link.

Please keep us in the loop as yer project progresses!

Bill

I would consider at least 2 ponds, if not 3 ponds.

The kids could target one pond - they could swim in it, play in it, and fish in it.

Adults (and children at times) could target a second pond for say largemouth bass.

Alternatively, you could have 2 adult ponds, and alternate fishing between them, or fish one and manage the other for 2-3 years before wetting a line in it.

Bill,

I have had the Perfect Pond book for many years - great stuff!

I didn't know that Mike Otto had a book published. He has helped me out on design questions over the phone on several occasions. If he can get all of that knowledge down on paper, then it should really be a helpful book.

basslover,

I know guys on this forum have managed really productive ponds with only 0.5 surface acres. I don't think I trust our climate and my skill level to manage that feat.

The Kansas Wildlife Dept. says anything under 1 acre is too small for a good LMB-BG fishery, and that 2-5 acres is the optimum size. I definitely cannot afford to excavate a 5 acre pond.

Would you personally rather have two 1.5 acre ponds, or three 1.0 acre ponds?

The best option could be two 1.0 acre ponds and spend the savings on top of the line aeration, fish habitat, initial stocking, etc.

Thanks, Rod

I'm in SE Ks Rod. Pond is a couple years old.

For "hot" kids fishing, don't overlook putting in at least a few HBG.

I was supposed to have only BG but a few HBG managed to sneak in. They were by far the easiest to catch and most aggressive towards a baited hook. Good fighters. I think I have caught about all of them now and transferred them to my old pond which already has GSF in it. Thought I needed to get them out of the main pond. But in retrospect, I don't think I needed to. I might have had 20 HBG out of the 1500 BG stocked.

The idea against stocking them in an ordinary BG/LMB pond is that with the larger GSF type mouth they compete with the LMB early on. But I think as long as a guy kept the stocking numbers pretty low for the HBG compared to the overall BG numbers, the HBG would add some early fishing excitement without affecting the overall fishery very much.

I'm no expert, and the experts may disagree with me, but I don't see where a few HBG hurt anything in my fishery and they sure were the most exciting catches of the early fishing. The GSF genes in the hybrids make them good fighters. If one of those ponds is for the kids, some HBG gets my vote. Just my 2 cents.

I would not pump any water from the oxbow pond into your ponds till after the first couple years and whatever you decide to stock is well established. In the Kansas rivers I know anything about you very likely will transfer GSF and BH by pumping water that has originally came from the river. I don't see that as a big problem with an established BG and LMB population. But if you get in a hurry to fill the ponds and introduce unwanted species before there are predators to keep them in check................ well lets just say a lot of PBF members have been down that road and you don't want to take it.

FishinRod -

Two 1.5 acre ponds or three 1.0 acre ponds ....

I think the primary consideration I would have is water supply - is this spring or well fed or run off fed?

For the kids anything more than 1 acre may be too big. For swimming, yaking, floats, a beach area, and fishing for panfish I think 1 acre is plenty of big, and you could certainly go smaller depending on the design of this pond.

Maybe you could do a .75 acre kid pond and a 2.0 acre adult pond.

snrub,

Thanks for the advice. I was definitely considering HBG for one of the ponds. That is part of the reason I am considering several small ponds - if I try multiple management experiments the odds of me getting one right should be much higher

I talked with Mike Otto a few years ago about enhancing and managing the oxbow pond. He said with massive floods causing structural damage, and with the high waters introducing trash fish, that it would probably be a pointless task. However, I think I can safely use this water for supplemental pumping. I was going to construct a fine mesh "fish & fry excluder" and then set my strainer nipple in that. I don't think tiny fry could survive a trip through the pump. [Somebody please let me know if they have experienced that problem.]

Since you are in my "neck of the woods", is there a thread somewhere on PB where you discuss what went right & wrong on your pond?

Thanks - Rod

basslover,

I like your idea about splitting the duties for each pond.

Does anyone on PB with a multi-use pond know how much the "humans in the pond activities" affect the LMB - especially if it is mostly confined to one corner of the pond?

I assume keeping toxic substances out would be the most important consideration. Does SPF 50 sunscreen count as a toxic substance? (I have a lot of gingers on one side of the family.)

Thanks - Rod

I personally would not worry about human activity affecting the fish much but I'm no expert. I have been scuba diving quite a bit in fresh water years ago (nearly all my diving now is in salt water except for what I do in my pond) and fish in general are very curious. They will scare off from human activity, but after a while curiosity gets the better of them and they will come around to check out what is going on in their territory. They keep their distance as long as activity is going on, but as soon as you are still for a while they come around to investigate.

I also would not worry about sunscreen. The tiny amount in the amount of water is negligible.

Here are some of my main threads about various pond aspects I've been involved with.

Introduction thread and ongoing info about my main 3 acre pond

Building a forage pond

Building a sediment pond

Green Sunfish and bullhead problem in my old pond

Refurbishing my son's old dried up pond

More than you ever wanted to know. Don't feel the least bit obligated to read all those, but they are there if you are interested.

If you get down in this neck of the woods and would like to, drop me a private message and if you have time stop by and I'll give you the nickel tour.

Rod -

A 1 acre multi-use pond here. Pretty much rectangle shape. Fixed dock near a man-made beach area I made. Kids swim, dive, snorkel, float, yak and play in the pond. Water clarity is clear, like tap water, currently 10 feet clarity.

The bluegills enjoy pecking at the kids, the kids enjoy this less than the gills.

The largemouth bass are indifferent. They swim by, sometimes swim away, but never approach. They have grown from 4-6" last May 2014 to 10-18" today.


Sunscreens do wash off into the water, and certain chemicals within sunscreens do have a negative impact on the ecosystem within the water:

http://www.rawelementsusa.com/understanding-sun-protection/environmental-impact/

http://www.stormh2o.com/SW/Articles/Sunscreen_Ingredients_May_Harm_Marine_Life_26884.aspx

http://www.stormh2o.com/SW/Blogs/Toxic_Sunscreens__2066.aspx

http://www.hkaffs.org/en/images/GAP3.pdf