Pond Boss Forums STOCKING A NEW POND Types of fish to choose Stunted SMB

Guys,

I have read about stunted, LMB, BG, BCP, GSF, etc here at the forum but, I can't find any threads on stunted SMB. Can somebody point me towards a thread discussing this or is it just not very common?

Thanks!

Bill D.

Since smb readily pellet train and are far less fecund than many species you note they are less apt to stunt-thus the lack of posts on the subject. They certainly can stunt under suitable conditions however. I have some fish that are less than thriving who haven't figured things out but I lack the fortitude to cull. But, I should and I'm aware of my failings.

Thanks for the input TJ!

Anybody up for a challenge to all members, new and old, and I am pretty sure there is no Right answer but would love to see the inputs.... Just for the heck of it let's roll the clock back to before pellets, automatic feeders, hybrids, etc were available and you live in Northern Midwest and want to create a cool water species pond. I am basically stripping away all the modern management tools you have now. We will assume good water quality and vegetation.

What would you stock to have a pond with DECENT size fish and your only two tools are supplemental stocking and angling.

The goal of the pond.....a fish fry of diversified decent sized fish every once and a while for your family. So a very minimum of any stunting.

With those things in mind I would selectively harvest year classes where there are a lot of same sized individuals competing for forage. It is the large highly competitive year classes that will have less than thriving individuals. Simply thinning the herd of less than thriving individuals can do wonders.

RBS, YP, SMB and WE are the four species I'd look at for a "classic" cool water pond. If hybrids were allowed, you could add HSB. PS may be an option if the predators were given a suitable head start on them.

CJ,

I like your recommendation. Since the rules allow supplemental stocking as a tool and the objective is food for your family, what do you think about adding CC as a put and take? Maybe a minnow like BNM or SFS to feed the YP since our fictitious pond has good vegetation?

As long as CC numbers were kept in-line with planned harvest, I think they'd be fine.

Non-conventional forage species would be a good idea. BNM, SFS, LCS and others could be utilized. Like anything, habitat for forage needs to be a consideration.

I looked in the acronym thread.. No listing for RBS, sorry, could you let me know this one?
My ignorance surfaces again..

Redbreast Sunfish!

Thx! Ok, I'm going with RES. (Pond is in the woods, snails are everywhere.)
I'll have to read up on RBS.

Rufescent Bathykolpian Sunfish.

I suppose TJ's version would work also.

I remember Dave Willis commenting a couple times about ponds with stunted SMB, so I'm sure it happens. Would think with well executed culling for the table, this could be managed/avoided, especially if the sunfish present aren't overly prolific [hence CJBS suggestion of RBS] and don't require every predatory mouth possible to keep their numbers in check. HSB would fit well into such pond, and as noted, small numbers of cats would too. Sounds like a fun project.

I've culled a lot of SMB, but also lack the fortitude to do as much as needed. I can't bring myself to get rid of them if I don't have a nonlethal disposition.

Rbs and res would be interesting. Josh is doing this also. I would love to see hybrids I don't think anyone has ever produced one on forum.

Yes Dave wrote article on stunted SMB fishery. IIRC he stocked PS and SMB WR improved dramatically. Ended up with stunted PS fishery, but that was the cost of improving SMB performance.

I've got RES and RBS in the same pond, if I ever get a hybrid between them, I'll certainly post.

I have seen nothing in the forum that RBS crossed with any other SF. I did see a thread where folks thought a BG X RBS may have happened but nothing definitive. Did I miss it?

Nearly all sunfish species can hybridize with each other. Some crosses are more likely to happen than others, based on several factors... Bruce Condello likely caught a near world record RBSxBG cross from Richmond Mill a couple years back. Its photo is somewhere on the forum. I'm sure other crosses exist as well.

Thanks CJ. I will try to track down the thread. I think it would be an awesome looking cross! Since there is an established world record, does that mean it must happen fairly frequently?

I'm not saying there is an established record. Bruce's fish could be it if there was. The RBSxBG hybrid isn't rare though.

CJ,

I found the thread. Cool Fish!

http://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=217743&page=2

RBS is in the acronym thread right under PS (Pumpkinseed)

Most any fish will stunt. In ponds with just SMB they always stunt and their maximum size is usually 7"-10".

Travis, you and a few others like TJ and Cody, have inspired me to go with this exact stocking plan. Loved seeing that this would be your choice.

I think you'll be happy with the results.

I am kind of going that way as well. RBS were not available so I went PS and BG. I also added the "put and take CC" discussed earlier in the thread. I have FHM for the YP now but want them to help with control of the BG, PS and SMB. My plan is to try to stay heavy in the larger YP department. Especially, since YP and CC are my table fare of choice. Guess we will see how it works. My pond is small so easy to do a restart.