Pond Boss Forums STOCKING A NEW POND Creating the food chain Crappie with Gizzard Shads

In a setting further north where TFS have annual die offs, if wanting to create a Good to Trophy crappie BOW could GSHD take the place if populations of crappie are already in place and of a certain size? No bluegill stocked. Maybe summer Tiliapia stocking GSH and FHM estiblished . Not sure of predators to stock HSB & LMB combo, or Flathead thrown in? Just thoughts.

A flathead may hinder any future stocking of additional fish since all of them would have to be pretty big to avoid being eaten by the flathead. Then when the flathead grew to 30+" no fish would be safe from predation. At first I would try to use the LMB and HSB to control the populations of smaller fish species.

What I'm afraid of is a large number of GSHD out growing the gape of the crappie,LMB, HSB. Would electro shocking the BOW every two years be the only way to remove Large shad ?

Is there a reason you are set on stocking shad? I think of them as forage used in very large BOWs. I would think E-shocking every couple years would get expensive. You say you have FHM already. I am not a pro for sure. FWIW IMHO if your true desire is big crappie, I would pick another minnow species to supplement the FHM like SFS that will stay closer to the mouth gap size of a big crappie.

Not that I'm stuck on shad Bill, but I have been reading that fishing guides in Miss. on some large lakes attributed thier record size crappies in recent years to high density populations of TFS & GSHD, along with larger minimum lengths 12"+ .

I don't know what the nutritional breakdown of what a 3" shad is compared a 3" shiner or other minnow species, but I think it would have much more.

Electro shocking is a shot to the wallet, which I would end up investing in my own DIY boat setup along with a few other few pond owners nearby that could burden some of the scratch.

A 3" g.shad is wider bodied than a 3"shiner. Make some measurements. At 3" the shad starts to get wide bodied and less or unavailable to the BCP. If you want a good forage for BCP I would focus on growing lots of GSH, plus plenty of shallow dense cover to keep the shiners from getting over grazed. One needs good refuge for a strong shiner population.

Shad also feed on plankton that the crappie also feed on don't they?

Bill C do you think that in my 5ac the 1ac of flooded timber and brush would be enough hiding places for GSH?

Bill C.,

Interesting stuff. You wouldn't be worried the LMB will choose to eat the more fusiform shaped larger GSH instead of focusing on the smaller/medium size crappie?

Bill D.

From my understanding of what I was told, Gizzard shad feed on both plankton types and crappie use the same zooplankton. BCP spawn slightly earlier than WCP which I've heard spawn around the same time as GSHD. Either way the pond will need to be well fertilized for good long lasting blooms.

If I was doing crappie I would use experiment using HSB as the main predator. HSB will prey heavily on the crappie when the crappie move into open water after hatching to grow on zooplankton. When crappie get to around 2"-3" they move back into more of the littoral areas. Use pellets for the HSB just enough to keep the crappie controlled and HSB growing. Provide ample cover for the GSH and HSB should overgraze the shiners.
If you have crappie with LMB and no minnow forage, I don't think the crappie will have enough invertebrate forage to keep them growing to large sizes. Getting the right balance established for a consistently good crappie pond is still not a dependable method.

Bill

What would you consider good cover for shinners?

Anybody?

""What would you consider good cover for shiners?"".

Weed beds submerged and emergent. Rush stems grow wide enough apart for fish to swim through. Water lilies growing to 5'-6' deep would be my first choice for submerged.

Thanks Bill
At present I have nothing but FA and brush piles



Pat

Brush piles are usually not extensive enough for good refuge areas. Plus brush piles are only good dense refuge for one or two years then they turn into fluffy cover due to rapid decomp of the twigs. This compares to natural vegetation that expands and improves each year.

Not sure GShad are a good idea

You have to have large predators to eat big GShad. IMO at least 25 % of the LMB over 20 inches. Here is a pic of a GShad

I agree ewest Gshad get big quick, what I was brain storm is just a small lake with a established crappie/HSB population hopefully a few size classes of BCP 6" - 10" - 14" able to feast on small Gshad only allowing a few lucky one`s to make it out of Gape reach. Those few would need to be electro-shocked out every few years. Too many Gshad reaching the 8"+ range and it would be a disaster, which could take many years to correct.

I know the simpler thing to do is have a few minnow species be the main forage for BCP. I just was looking into accelerated growth and more weight getting put on to push more fish into a 16-17" trophy class. As I`m located near some incredible world class BCP/WCP lakes Reelfoot TN, Sardis MS, Arkabutla MS, and Enid MS lakes, I can`t help but get jealous of how well these lakes do and what management techniques they are using that could translate into smaller BOW.

Shy of 4lb crappie

Crappie are big water fish, most fisheries biologists feel even 200 acres lakes are too small for them. All those lakes you listed are giant. Sometimes they do OK in smaller lakes but, most great crappie lakes are big. Through extensive management efforts smaller bodies of water can produce good crappie fisheries but to keep them that way over an extended period of time is a real challenge...

Reservoirs like those mentioned are ideal for crappie and are managed for that. Ponds normally don't do well with crappie. There are some being managed for that with some early success as noted in the crappie archive. IIRC they involve tshad , FH , crappie and HSB.