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Bill D. Offline OP
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Thanks Bill. For my micros, maybe 30 x 30, heavy equipment to compact will not be an option. Is reducing the layer thickness to maybe 3 to 4 inches and using hand operated vibratory compactor the way to go?


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Originally Posted By: Bill D.
Thanks Bill. For my micros, maybe 30 x 30, heavy equipment to compact will not be an option. Is reducing the layer thickness to maybe 3 to 4 inches and using hand operated vibratory compactor the way to go?


Also, what do you think about covering the "clay liner" with a layer of something to protect it? These will be ponds that are probably going to be frequently drained. I was also thinking some vegetation could live in the protective layer without penetrating the clay liner? Maybe a cover of something the fish would prefer to clay? It's a micro pond so I was thinking a little extra cost for that extra layer of a preffered habitat is not a big deal?

Last edited by Bill D.; 02/27/15 10:37 PM.

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Thanks Bill Cody for the good feedback. Things in my head I'm concerned with:
1. What happens if let's say you have layered the Perma-Zyme and the pond is at full pool for a year, then drained to harvest forage fish. What will happen with bottom layer if it drys out, will it crack?

2. If your forage pond is designed for crawfish production. Will they affect the Perma-Zyme layers.

3. Will any pond treatment chemicals cause the product to breakdown?

I do think a good thick layer of clay material will have a great positive affect on compaction in Perma-Zyme usages.


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Bill Have been out of touch for a while' Not sure what Perma Zyme is? What it does? or where you get it? Otto

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As far as I have been able to determine, there are 2 distributors for Perm-Zyme in the US and they seem to have defined sales regions. One is based in S. Carolina and sells only in S. Carolina. The other is based in Idaho and sells to Idaho, Utah, Montana, Wyoming and Alaska. I sent an e-mail to see if it can be purchased for use in Illinois.

I did find a recommended application rate of 1 gal per 150/cubic yds of clay for new pond construction but could not find any recent pricing info. I did find a source stating the cost at $120/gal from 2011.

Edit: FWIW Just fond another site that says $365/gal

Last edited by Bill D.; 02/28/15 06:32 PM.

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Yea Bill D the best price I`ve found so far was $360-$365 gal.


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Originally Posted By: Snakebite
Yea Bill D the best price I`ve found so far was $360-$365 gal.


Did you find a place to buy it?


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http://www.ndltap.org/events/conference/downloads/2013-baseone.pdf

Maybe this place, I have made no contact efforts yet.


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I started making what my wife and I refer to as "Mongo Ponds" right after the Pond Boss I or II conference.

Popular PB Conference presenter, Sir Dave "Mongo" Sefton, presented some of the things he was doing. As soon as we got home from that conference, I hopped on my backhoe and started digging Mongo Ponds.

Most are 20 to 30 feet in maximum width and or length, and less than 4-feet deep. One got expanded to about 1/3 acre and about seven feet deep. It is my experimental pond.

The other micro ponds serve a number of purposes. They are home to minnows, frogs and amphibians of all kinds, and they provide forage and water for a lot of woodland critters. Best of all, they make great settlement ponds for debris and other stuff. One of the smallest, about 4 x 15 feet, is a significant water cleanup and debris trap area. It is filled with cattails that take in a lot of undesirables. I keep it under control with the backhoe and a tractor landscape rake.


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Price for Perma-Zyme has gone up! WOW. The first batch I bought (pre 1990) was a 55 gal drum of original Perma-Zyme (pre Perma-Zyme11X). Second batch was the concentrated form of Perma-Zyme11 in a 5 gal jug that cost $110/gal and I picked it up while there on a gambling trip! If I wanted more I would call International Enzymes in LasVagas and see what they told me.

M.Otto - Mike it is a soil stabilizer. I think it is similar to ESS-13. When I visited the manufacturer in L.Vagas they showed me the process and said it was an enzymatic process and made it from sugar cane. It looked like they were making big vats of dark beer. When mixed with the soil and compacted it gets very hard. They use it in the West a lot to build roads and airport runways. If you haven't found out more about it here is some links.
http://internationalenzymeslv.com/products/perma-zyme/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JaIpYpiDg6Q
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rB5oWWvNCw8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TKr94EgDiSY
Six year old road with perma-zyme
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GP7k2JNIE0M



Last edited by Bill Cody; 03/01/15 05:24 PM.

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A PBF member sent me a PM on a source for a pond liner. Thank You! Would appreciate some feedback. I can get a 30 mil PVC vinyl liner that is UV resistant for a 30 x 30 pond around 4 feet deep for between $400 and $500 plus shipping.

Good price? Way to go? Why or why not? If I went this way, should I buy underlayment or would old carpeting work?


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Guys,

Still brainstorming. I would appreciate your thoughts on using a garden pond insert as a micro pond. I am thinking one of the largest irregular shaped inserts 2 or 3 feet deep, not sure what they are made out of, maybe fiberglass, to raise a minnow species for forage. Water from the main pond would be constantly circulated thru the micro. I would need to figure out the outlet side to get flow back to the main pond over a waterfall. I would provide a netting or large mesh wire cover to keep critters out. What do you think?


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I don't think you are going to grow very many fish in a garden pool. Have you considered something larger such as one of those preformed swimming pools?. They appear to be molded fiberglass. I will try to find links for examples. Oh my! Lots to choose from.
http://www.riverpoolsandspas.com/cost
http://www.vikingpools.net/
http://www.bestfiberglasspools.com/why_fiberglass_pools.htm
http://www.brpoolsusa.com/why-buy-a-fiberglass-pool/why-buy-fiberglass-pools.html
http://www.sunpools.com/

Also explore land fill liners.



Last edited by Bill Cody; 03/26/15 07:22 PM.

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Thanks Bill. I will "wade" thru the links. I like the idea! smile


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Here's a thought for you Bill of the forage pond stuff. In my area, there are so many water holes that no one would think to put fish into. Small cattail slough type waters. In the populated and un populated areas. I talk to the homeowner or land owner and ask if I can stock and trap it. Most people are very curious and let me do it. More than half of them love to be apart of it. I have more ponds to raise fish in than I have time and all it costs me is some conversation time and the occasional case of suds. FH, stickle backs, mud minnows, and GSF. Get mosquito control as well

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Originally Posted By: mnfish
Here's a thought for you Bill of the forage pond stuff. In my area, there are so many water holes that no one would think to put fish into. Small cattail slough type waters. In the populated and un populated areas. I talk to the homeowner or land owner and ask if I can stock and trap it. Most people are very curious and let me do it. More than half of them love to be apart of it. I have more ponds to raise fish in than I have time and all it costs me is some conversation time and the occasional case of suds. FH, stickle backs, mud minnows, and GSF. Get mosquito control as well


Thanks Mnfish. Wish we had those kind of opportunities around here. I will keep on the lookout.

Update: Looks like, unless I could find one on the cheap from somebody that is stuck with one gathering dust, the fiberglass insert idea is a non-starter for me. Price is way too high compared to a liner.


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