Pond Boss Forums STOCKING A NEW POND Types of fish to choose Providing forage for a Crappie only pond

Truth be told all the larger ponds with crapipe gsh have other predat or fish Too. One small crappie pond (1 acre) was just bcp and at the start of year 2 I started working with the pond a little. Put half a gallon of 6" plus golden shiners in. It has a rock face and other good structure and I probably went light on the goldens. Also put five gallons of you fatheads in from a pond that was going dry. Never been able to trap or net a minnow from there. I will try again this summer and plan on adding scudds. The pond received perch the next year but we haven't done a predator yet because this pond over flows into a walleye pond. May have to move a few up stream as all the crappie are stunted.

fishm_n,

I am not familiar with stocking fish by the gallon. About how many FHM would you guess there is in 5 gallons and how many 6" GSH in half a gallon?

A gallon of true fish no water. Take a gallon bucket and drill a ton of holes to let water out. Pour fish in. That measures a gallon of fish. Larger the fish less in a gallon. Not sure on the numbers. I thought the goldens would take as spawners. The fatheads they were yoy. So many of them but easy food. I thought with all the cover some fhm would make it.

Thanks!

Number of FHM per gallon (8 lbs) depends on size of FHM. For example at 1.5" there are close to 5,900/gallon and at 2" there are close to 2400/gallon. At the average large size of 2.5" there are 1200FHM/gallon.

Thanks bill!

No GSH if your primary goal is big crappie. The GSH compete with the crappies too much for larger invertebrates. Select the smaller forage species and perhaps the chubsuckers as they would be a larger prey item but wouldn't compete for food...

Oops on the GSH s they were added in the fall along with FHMs to get the BCP and LMB through the winter till the CNBC could spawn this spring for BCP fodder. The bucket stocked LMB were eating all the forage. Can HSB catch the shinners?

Pat, I think HSB could catch any shiners, this is based only from my experience on how hard they take a bait when fishing. Man!! they will knock a rod out of your hand when they hit

Tracy

Tracy
I was figuring if the crappie can't catch them then maybe the LMB might and that should take some of the pressure off the CNBG spawn


Pat

Did we lose you somewhere?

TJ
I think so, I was told to add GSH and FHMs, which I did, now I hear BCP can't catch them

My apologies Pat, The 'confused' icon was meant to indicate that I was not stating it as a fact but more wondering aloud as a question? Asking to be educated. There wasn't a emoticon for 'I wonder?'

Instinctively I think that predators will find a way to catch prey. I have no doubts that walleye, LMB, SMB, and HSB can ambush or chase down GSH.

I imagine there is no reason to think that panfish would have any problems either but I was wondering aloud because I've never seen that topic up for discussion on this forum. It really would be a great topic.

It would take direct observation like having GSH in a tank, or RES in a tank and give them only GSH to eat instead of FHM.

I know that GSH can get to a size that probably a BCP would not be able to swallow them.

The question is as the GSH get larger can they swim as fast or faster, or maybe slower?

Are there studies about whether certain panfish hit a point where they cannot use shiners or certain species of shiners as a food source due to speed/maneuverability constraints?

I imagine in a pond that has lots of minnows and shiners there are enough minnow or SHG fry, insects, bugs and other sources of food that the crappie will just switch to other food sources.

You really would really have to have a small plastic outdoor pond or indoor aquarium to watch the predator vs prey unfold in front of you.

Apologize if I created undue concern about your stocking plans!

Does anyone have only crappie and GSH/FHM in a pond?

Based on my experience stocking HBCP in pond with GSH as forage they did not perform well - low WR and poor performance despite abundant forage. This is only my personal experience, it's not a rule by any means, just sharing the science from my experiment. I think we've hit on several characteristics which suggest GSH may not serve as ideal forage for BCP:

GSH foraging competition
GSH quick growth rates out of range of gape
GSH pelagic and schooling nature in addition to characteristic speed/elusive nature make them less vulnerable to BCP predation. I don't feel they are too fast for BCP, just far more adept at avoidance than other species.

I think crappie probably hammer their fare share of GSH up to 3-4" for larger fish, but all these characteristics add up as not ideal forage for me. Once a GSH hits age 3 it's out of range as forage. That's not an ideal situation...I'd prefer having SFS shiner where even adults could be used as forage.

Again, my BCP responded immediately when introduced into a new fishery with YOY BG, YP, and RES. Improved fertility and subsequent increased zooplankton presence also probably helped boost performance. Since my YOY BG schools tend to loaf in same areas as feeding crappie [beneath my docks], I think they are relied upon very heavily as forage. I'd be surprised if more than 5% of my BG make it to age 1 - and BCP probably account for a significant share of that predation.

Can GSH work as sole forage for a BCP monoculture fishery? I don't know - only offer one study at my farm where I did not achieve goals I established for the BCP.

I agree with Travis and other's suggestions on alternate minnow species which can reproduce in a pond environment. Smaller shiner species identified in addition to LCS may work too. I don't think we have much science on this scenario on Pond Boss - not many have tried it. That's why I wanted to share my experience, thought it may be helpful.

Per my previous post - yes - I held a 2 year experiment with HBCP with GSH and FHM as forage base. FHM were extirpated in 2-3 months but GSH populations flourished. WR of HBCP were around 70. That means they were stunted and skinny. Stocked at 3-4" and they grew to 7" in two years.

GSH grow fast and won't serve as forage for BCP for a long period of time. GSH grow up to 10" and can live for up to 8-9 years. They are likely only within gape range of BCP for 1-2 years. At age 3+ GSH are likely out of the gape range of a CP. This is one of the reasons you're getting the less than positive advice on the GSH among other reasons.

Again, per my original post, my apex predators [SMB, HSB] do effectively prey on GSH, even the largest adult GSH. GSH are pelagic schooling planktivores and the HSB and SMB seem to work together to hunt them in packs, especially during feeding times.

Thanks guys

I am trying to have a diverse forage population for the BCP and the untimely LMB. Maybe the additional forage besides CNBG and soon mudbugs those guys will get enough to eat and prosper. There is also a small amount of gams involved although the LMB YOY keep them whittled down . There are so many variables to all this that it is kinda mind boggling




Pat

Pat

If you are stocking CNBG, I think your Crappie will do fine on young BG. I think my BG feed my crappie very well. I don't think you should feel compelled to stock special minnows or shiners to try and feed your crappie. With presence of LMB I think you might struggle to get new species established anyhow.

Sorry for the hijack, Bing!

I hope some of this is useful. Go with Travis' suggestions on minnows/shiners for best chance of success. I would not stock GSH.

I have been catching GSH in crappie jigs in my pond. I suspect that the larger GSH are significant predators on YOY fry. I stocked 3 dozen the summer of 2011, I suspect this one is from the original stocking as it is now 9-1/2" long.

She's a beaut - either well fed on pellets, or ready to drop some eggs.

Important to note, maybe - I have caught HSB as small as 24" on 8" adult GSH.

"As small as 24 inches", he writes nonchalantly.

LOL, just meant that for gape information!

TJ, did you know that the NE hook and line state record for GSH is 14 oz?

I'm thinking that in another year or two an I might be able to break it.

I bet we both could, easily.

yellow fins pretty , mine tend to have red fins...