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Hello All,

Been trolling the archives and learning as I go.....but figured I'd post my situation and get some tips from the pro's.

I've recently acquired a 80acre piece of property in Eland Wi. This property has been in the family 50+ years and I'll probably end passing it to one of my 3 girls. I'm extremely fortunate to have my grandfather still living on the property and he still gives me *advice* on a daily basis. All projects on this property have spawned from this old guy....some executed well...some notsomuch.

Details the Pond....

- The Pond is "spring" fed in several different locations.
- We've estimated that our dry season runoff at about 75-100gal per minute.
- Its approx 35 years old. Has been redug twice using a dragline excavator to depths of 5-18ft.
- A single windmill provides aeration.
- Never been emptied.

My questions...
The runoff has been a series of re-worked PVC drainage pipes. I've run into at least 3 different variations of PVC at different depths. this winter we've had a failure on one of the setups and appears its time for a complete rebuild. What would be the preferred method of spillway be for this type pond?

Does it have fish....
The only stocking that's been done is via transplanted bass,crappie,panfish over the years. all species can be seen spawning at certain times of the year...but there isn't any real motiviation to how its been planned. I'd ultimately like to drain the pond, kill all existing fish and start over...

This'll be my biggest yard project to date. Getting the correct backhoe,dumptruck,dozer isn't a problem. I just want to ensure I have the basics in-place to start a managed fish population in upcoming years.

My problem today is the spillway.....and how do I repair/rebuild it properly?


Thanks in advance for sticking with me and being a part of this project.

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When you say runoff, you are referring to discharge OUT of the pond, correct? If you have the desire to drain the pond and start over, then I think a problem with the overflow may be a cosmic sign with the words "begin project now" emblazoned right on it.

All kidding aside, it would seem to be a great opportunity to kill two birds with one stone.

Welcome to PondBoss. Some dirt guys will be along, directly I suspect. Hold tight.

Last edited by sprkplug; 03/26/15 02:36 PM.

"Forget pounds and ounces, I'm figuring displacement!"

If we accept that: MBG(+)FGSF(=)HBG(F1)
And we surmise that: BG(>)HBG(F1) while GSF(<)HBG(F1)
Would it hold true that: HBG(F1)(+)AM500(x)q.d.(=)1.5lbGRWT?
PB answer: It depends.
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Appreciate any and all feedback. I'm all about doing things the "right" way....and never shy from a project. Heavy equipment is a phone call away... and I'd love to setup a long-term ecosystem for my kids/grandkids.

The 75-100gal per minute is what the springs produce and is flowing out of those overflow tubes..into the "runoff" pond.... then into the nearby Packard Creek/Embarrass river system. I had always envisioned using the "runoff" pond for a minnow hatchery.

First things first..... What type of spillway can I research that would work best in this application smile

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I'm no dirt guy, but it looks like there is a lot of loose rock in the soil used for the dam. Those pipes appear way too small to me, but, someone who knows what they're doing will advise you far better than I can. Is there an emergency spillway on the dam?

Is that a covered bridge? Whatever it is, it looks great!


"Forget pounds and ounces, I'm figuring displacement!"

If we accept that: MBG(+)FGSF(=)HBG(F1)
And we surmise that: BG(>)HBG(F1) while GSF(<)HBG(F1)
Would it hold true that: HBG(F1)(+)AM500(x)q.d.(=)1.5lbGRWT?
PB answer: It depends.
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Hey Metro,

Wow that looks awesome man!! I was born and raised just north of you in Eagle River! Looks like you got a great looking place on your hands. I don't have a clue how to fix a spillway but just thought I would say hey and welcome!!

RC


The only difference between a rut and a Grave is the depth. So get up get out of that rut and get moving!! Time to work!!
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Based on the consistency of the dirt around the outlet pipes, it appears the pond walls (basin) has some leakage issues that are masked by the spring water inflow of 75+gpm. Whenever you decide to drain, try to rework the basin by adding depth and compacting all of the bottom clay and sides with a sheepsfoot roller around upper areas. The best compactor is the vibratory sheepsfoot which is what I would insist be used.

You current depth appears pretty good at 10 to 14ft. For WI better would be 12 to 18 or 20ft. With current depth and condition you may not need to rework the basin for another 10-20 yrs assuming the springs maintain the current flow rate. Spring water is likely minimizing winter kill issues.

Your current fix is repairing the outlet pipe integrity. It may be as simple as a partial draining and excavating out dirt around the pipes and backfilling with one or two loads of clay that is well compacted around the outlet pipe area. Then consider using some broken riprap over the new dirt work to stabilize it from weathering and erosion.

Last edited by Bill Cody; 03/26/15 04:14 PM.

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Welcome, It only makes since to get this thing fixed for the kids that where running down the path to the pond---That is the best picture I have seen in a long time.

Now is the time to get the whole thing fixed,
Drain the lake.
install a drain pipe at the bottom of the dam with a valve so you can drain the pond when ever you need or want to.

The spillway pipe should be either schedule 40 plastic or concrete.

As Wild Bill Cody said when it is drained add some depth, and re shape it as much as is needed.

You have another option and that is enlarging the whole pond, with as much water as you are draining down stream you can consider that option.
Most of the people on the planet would love to have that much water. GOOD LUCK keep us posted

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FYI - M.Otto of Otto's Dirt Service is a very experienced, highly qualified pond builder with 40+ yrs experience and he has authored a very good new book about pond building: " Just Add Water". Three of the chapters apply to your drain pipe situation: Dam Maintenance and Repair, Erosion Repair on the Front Slope, and Repairing Pipes. Book available through the Pond Boss Office.
http://www.pondboss.com/store.asp?c=8

Last edited by Bill Cody; 03/26/15 07:04 PM.

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Originally Posted By: Bill Cody
Based on the consistency of the dirt around the outlet pipes, it appears the pond walls (basin) has some leakage issues that are masked by the spring water inflow of 75+gpm. Whenever you decide to drain, try to rework the basin by adding depth and compacting all of the bottom clay and sides with a sheepsfoot roller around upper areas. The best compactor is the vibratory sheepsfoot which is what I would insist be used.

You current depth appears pretty good at 10 to 14ft. For WI better would be 12 to 18 or 20ft. With current depth and condition you may not need to rework the basin for another 10-20 yrs assuming the springs maintain the current flow rate. Spring water is likely minimizing winter kill issues.

Your current fix is repairing the outlet pipe integrity. It may be as simple as a partial draining and excavating out dirt around the pipes and backfilling with one or two loads of clay that is well compacted around the outlet pipe area. Then consider using some broken riprap over the new dirt work to stabilize it from weathering and erosion.


Bill, Please excuse my ignorance! I am curious as to why it would be better for a WI pond to be deeper than 10-14'?

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Welcome from deep East Texas and thanks for sharing such a wonderful photo of the children. It reminds us of what life is all about.You have your own little piece of Heaven. Good luck with it. Many are here to assist you.


Dear Alcohol, We had a deal where you would make me funnier, smarter, and a better dancer... I saw the video... We need to talk.
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"I am curious as to why it would be better for a WI pond to be deeper than 10-14'?"

It prevents less chance of winterkill assuming the pond is not aerated. Basically the short version is the deeper a pond is the more water volume it has in relation to its surface area; surface to volume ratio. The larger volume of water holds more dissolved oxygen compared to the bottom surface area which means the longer the DO lasts during snow cover. The bottom surface has a majority of the dead organic materials which consume the biggest portion of the DO the fastest. This is why shallow ponds with less water volume on top of the bottom muck frequently have fish winterkill because they more quickly 'run' out of DO during winter.

In other words Dissolved Oxygen loss in ponds and lakes generally and gradually proceeds from the bottom toward the surface. So when there is more distance or depth (volume)above the bottom the longer it takes for the oxygen loss to reach the surface.

The rate of DO loss usually depends on the conditions of each pond or lake with the more eutrophic and enriched being the fastest DO loss.

Also the deeper a pond is the longer it takes for it to fill in with muck / organics and become a swamp, marsh or wetlands.

Last edited by Bill Cody; 03/27/15 10:40 AM.

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Thanks for the comments everyone. I feel fortunate to land in such a great place. I've worked on it for years with my grandfather and now owning it is an entirely new experience. We've re-stocked the farm with a few horses and rented the 10acre field to a local farmer for alfalfa. Its a joy watching the younger ones roam around and enjoy nature.

Few more details on the pond
- Grandfather and I built the covered bridge when I was 15years old. I hated the process at the time.... I've come to really appreciate the time we spent and product we achieved. 23 years later...the banks are little tight.... but its still standing.
- The banks/basin of the pond is primarily blue clay. The basin goes straight to 6ft+ in most areas. This is a "know how to swim" pond.
- The entire pond is surrounded by a dirt berm that keeps watershed from nearby fields from entering the pond. The water surface doesn't seem to accumulate much algae or bi-product.
- I'm open to putting a powered aeration system of some type. We have 110V at the bridge. I've read through RC51's setup and looks like that could be an affordable answer. I'd need to learn more on how to cycle it through the spring/fall seasons though.
- There's an abundance of Black Crappie in the pond. Consensus here says that's a bad idea for any well managed fish population.
- There's zero structure in the pond today. That needs fixed.


I guess I'm still narrowing down how much I want to accomplish in a single season. I'd like to get the spillway repaired/replaced and add some structure. Sounds like that'll include draining the pond and having a fish fry:)

Weight limits come off in about 4 weeks. Then we'll roll in the backhoe and make some progress.

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Bill- Thanks for the education! Aeration being the key for the digging decisions. Any dug out pond in MN/WI I would plan on aerating, factor of safety and higher carrying capacity.. but that's just me. Those deep dug out ponds get expensive in a hurry so I would dig less depth and design in the aeration system... but again just me.

Metro- Beautiful place you got there! I wouldn't write off your BCP just yet. Have you caught any lately? Have you looked up or done any RW of those BCP? Any other fish?

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Couple of updated pictures. Construction is well under way for the "Waterfall" project/Minnow pond. Installed a 6" reserve outlet to get the main pond water level down about 3ft. Enough to work on the main outlet..where I'll install a pair of 4" pipes. All to be routed into a mini-pond and then over a waterfall of sorts.

I dunno....making it up as I go along smile

Backhoes are amazing pieces of machinery.

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pond - phase1.jpg pond - phase1a.jpg pond - phase1b.jpg
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Couple more pics w/ some additional progress.

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One more.

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You are really making me miss my home state of Wisconsin.

Looking good on the property you have there. The pipe size may be an issue getting clogged but I will let the senior guys, Bill and Mike take the lead on that one. Concrete was a good call IMHO to prevent erosion. You just may have to watch it's heave the first few years with the frost set and thaw. Now is that the inlet to the overflow pond you were talking about raising some minnows in or is that the inlet to the main pond?


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Added a few more pictures here for perspective. The main ponds are spring-fed so I've only been dealing with a run-off system to feed a smaller "minnow" pond.

Long term goal is to raise some fathead/shiner minnows in this smaller pond to provide forage for the larger ponds. Its still a work-in-progress though.

The main ponds are currenty re-filling so I can see how my waterfall system is going to work. At 60 gal per minute..... I've been waiting for 4 days now for it to fill back up that remaining 3ft.

In regards to the to the clogging of runoff pipes. I fabbed up a quick "pre-screen" of sorts to keep out the larger chunks of debris. Yet to know if this system will work well.

Thanks for all the input. This is a summer long project with many more updates to come. All feedback is appreciated!

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Love the rocks, makes me think of SMB! YOu should grow some crawdads.

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It looks like it will be a very good forage pond. Nice work. If you have weed/algae problems that interfere with harvest stock pond dwelling crayfish and they will keep the pond clean but a little turbid vis 12" which okay for raising forage fish.

Last edited by Bill Cody; 06/04/15 01:49 PM.

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Figured I throw out an update. Finished construction of the new "forage" pond. complete w/ new spillways and waterfall smile

I took the backhoe home this afternoon and don't expect to do much until its time to stock minnows next spring.

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couple more

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Update:

Last fall our ponds were officially stocked with 150 trout. 100 Rainbows, 25 Brookies and 25 Browns. All stocked at 15"+ in length. We're feeding these guys pellets and hoping to have them make it through the warmer summer months.

Also in attendance.... BASS! We've seen this guy swimming around for the past couple years but here's his first time being caught. We're pretty sure he's the only one....and made it into the pond via my overly helpful grandfather.

He was a bit over 5lbs and we put him back to grow. Perfectly ok if he decides to eat a few trout.

In addition to planting the trout, we've added 20lbs fatheads last fall, and 20lbs fatheads this spring. Let'm eat I guess smile

Good times and the kids are loving it. Has anyone done a mixed trout/bass pond?

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nice looking ponds. Nice fish as well.
What are the plants you have shown in "phase 2a" I want to add some plants so I am looking at options.


Thanks
Dave
1 acre pond.
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Hey thanks for the compliment! Those are native cat tails and were always in that location. That happens to be the shallow end of the
forage pond and never had the need to remove them. Good spawning habitat I figure smile

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