Pond Boss Forums STOCKING A NEW POND Types of fish to choose Providing forage for a Crappie only pond

My nephew recently built his third pond in central Illinois. The first two are typical Bluegill, Channel Cat and Bass ponds. He started filling this new one, about two acres, last fall and added about five pounds of fathead minnows then. Bruce would like to have a Black Crappie only pond, and is starting to put some fathead friendly structure in it. My question is: How to you provide forage if you only want crappie? I told him that although adding the fatheads was a great start I didn't think they would survive more than a few years. What additional forage can he put in. He is aware of the fact that the pond might be difficult to manage and may lead to needing to kill it all off and start over.

I would definitely consider GSH or some sort of shiner.

Golden shiners may compete with the crappie. I'd listen to what Cody, Travis and TJ have to add to this. I imagine bluntnose minnows, spotfin shiners, maybe lake chubsuckers might be considered here.

Some single sex largemouth to help control the crappie?

I am not a pro but IMHO I would at least consider going with Hybrid crappie if I could get them. He might stand a chance of managing those and not over populating too soon.

I don't think the FHM will last long. I'd suggest some alternative minnow species more adept at escaping predation, and more likely to establish a self sustaining population.

Bluntnose minnow
Spotfin shiner

Maybe Cody and Travis can recommend some addition species, topminnows, darters, daces or shiner species.

I'd allow the forage base at least one season to get rolling before stocking crappie.

Or, he could go the extra mile and try to feed train the crappie...that's been done before, but I worry about the offspring being non trained.

One last consideration - HBCP may be easier to manage than straight BCP. Rex can source them from AR. Mine and Zeps are doing fairly well, grow fast and I'm not seeing reproduction, yet, that has served as a management issue. Then again, I have dense apex predator populations to hammer YOY HBCP that helps.

If population management becomes a chore, MNFish one man fyke net setup allows him to manage his BCP populations well. He's a definite success story managing smaller pond BCP fishery.

PS: My YOY GSH are far too adept at predation avoidance for HBCP to effectively utilize as forage IMO. I see HBCP make half hearted efforts at the schools of YOY GSH in shallows and always seem to swing and miss. My SMB are another story....

Further, while GSH top end size does allow for brood adults to keep spawning as they are not vulnerable to predation, I think they grow so fast they may not be appropriate forage for long, if they can even be regularly targeted at all.

Bear in mind BCP will graze on zoooplankton far more in comparison to WCP, so regular planktonic algae blooms and subsequent zoo blooms will be another important factor towards keeping the crappie population in good condition [well fed]. Can zoos fed BCP alone? I don't know...not qualified to weigh in there with no experience.

Stocking HSB might be a consideration to help keep HBCP population managed...but that is diverting from your monoculture goal. You already know how I feel about HSB - zero downside, huge upside as a management tool and angling species...but there I go again.

If using straight Black Crappie, I can't see a downside to Golden shiner competition as the GSH could delay BCP stunting. Other than Bluntnose Golden Shiner and Fatheads, the only other decent forage species I can think of off the top of my head is YP or Bullheads. I doubt BH are a wanted species...

The Hybrid Crappie have made a lot of people happy, yet straight or hybrid, it would be hard to stay with only a crappie as the main predator. I'd think you'll need to add at least HSB or WE to help take up some slack.

Only other option might be to stock a BUNCH of BCP and try getting some on feed before they all starve....maybe 2-5% would take to pellets

Would scuds and/or grass shrimp be a good addition as another forage source for crappie?

Invertabrates are good forage in any fishery

Thanks TJ! Will crappie feed on small crawfish and small frogs?

Edit: Sorry for asking so many questions but trying to learn and also trying to brainstorm on what forage can be put into a crappie only pond to try to maximize the potential for success.

Every quality small crappie pond I know of has gsh in them. These ponds being 3 - 25 acres. Smaller ponds may be a different story for lack of hsbitat? But diverse food chains do help.

I can tell you what DEFINITELY didn't work for me as forage...BH's. They got into one of my crappie only ponds and ruined it. Those little buggers took over and the BCP couldn't keep up. I think the BH grow too fast and surpass the gape of BCP quickley (completely uneducated guess). They were eating my BCP forage. Fishing with fathead minnows and BH after BH would be caught. Food hogs!

Like MN, I have noticed that my SMB are unable to keep up with or do not prefer BH as forage also. I have collected YOY BH and fed to caged SMB and into my grow out cell and they are largely ignored and eaten only after the BG, FHM and GSH are gone. Since BH swarm in pods for protection...might intimidate the SMB, not sure?

Rex - I, like you, initially thought GSH would serve as a good forage source for HBCP and stocked them into the .1 acre experimental pond with the PVC muskrat problems [you know the one]. Two years later and the HBCP were all around 70 WR and stunted but I had a booming GSH population [thousands]. When I released the HBCP into the main pond, they doubled in size and rebounded quickly during the first 18 months - I credit it to improved fertility [more frequent plankton/zoo blooms] and abundance of YOY BG, RES, and YP. Based on my personal experience alone - which isn't going to be the same for everyone, GSH did not serve as good forage for HBCP.

I find Crappie to be more of a stealthy, floating, quick strike ambush predator. My GSH are more pelagic in nature. From my observation, the HSB seem to have the legs to hunt them down in open water, also being pelagic, and often seem to feed in "packs", working the GSH schools together to the surface. Interestingly, I observe larger SMB cruising along with the HSB "packs" on my camera - and during feeding times they are right along side the much larger HSB - apparently not intimidated, and get their fair share of AM LMB. I never thought of SMB sharing these characteristics with HSB - however due to the lack of cover and structure in my pond, they may have adapted their foraging tactics to be more successful - and follow the HSB around. Just a theory...

Using my AquaVu cameras I note my crappie prefer to hang in the shadows of the dock and between and beneath the cages and pop the swarms of BG that also congregate under the shady docks. One strike, hit or miss, then drift back to the shadows and wait some more. My crappie never chase more than a foot before they reset. I rarely have GSH hanging around the dock, they are typically schooling and hammering pellets in the open water 6' or greater depth.

They also love hanging around the periphery of the green monster light at night and will often swim slowly, on their sides or even upside down, apparently grazing on zoos which are rising at night from the bottom of the pond maybe chasing plankton attracted to the light?

Just my personal observations - I suspect every fishery is unique in some characteristics like these.

I have BCP,CNBG LMB, GSH and FHMs if any are left, so is the YOY CNBG and GSH going to be enough forage to keep the BCP up to snuff?


Pat

If all the stars lined up. I have a little 1/4 acre pond that will be full of GSF come ice off. My plan is to trap as many of the 2" and above and then stock it with 50-100 4-6" BCP and monitor their growth. I know from fishing with GSF the BCP sure do like to eat them.



This was about an hour of soak time from the pond I want to test. Full of GSF. No aeration in this pond and it's shallow. The greenies are tough but I don't know.

From TJ "...Using my AquaVu cameras I note my crappie prefer to hang in the shadows of the dock and between and beneath the cages and pop the swarms of BG that also congregate under the shady docks. One strike, then drift back to the shadows and wait some more."

This is my observation as well. In my ponds, which are shallower and very clear. The BCP seem to act a lot like LMB. We fish Rapalas like top water jerk baits and sunfish minnows fluttering on the water surface. The BCP will break water and crush the baits. IME, they miss the baits way more than they hit them. But they are very ambush type predators on my ponds.

Just for you TJ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n6J6_lMZsIc

Just realized I posted this on the wrong thread....what a maroon I am

If I was doing a crappie only pond, I'd leave the GSH out. Too much competition with the crappies for larger zooplankton. I'd love to use HSB as the control species. Don't feed pellets and force the HSB to feed on the YOY crappies. A monoculture of just crappies would be tough to manage. Good forage would be forage with smaller mouths and different food preferences. BNM, SFS, BKF and LCS would be great options. I'm now loving my eastern silvery minnows but realize they're impossible to source for most... I would without a doubt stock PK shrimp. A great way turn detritus into prime crappie food.

GREAT info, TJ, Thanks for sharing!

So guys what would be a good forage fish for us southern guys for crappie?



Pat

I'd look at red shiners, lake chubsuckers, taillight shiners, bullhead minnows, fathead minnows, golden topminnows and blackstripe topminnows are all Texas natives that could be possible forage fish candidates for a crappie pond.

CJB
Not GSH?

Crappie can't catch them, they are WAY too fast.

Seriously I watched GSH in captivity and as I release them and I seriously wondered if there were some forage fish that simply out run the predator. The GSH both in speed of movement and ability change direction out paced the FHM 2-1. I wonder if any underwater data shows ability of GSH or other more stout shiners or shad outrunning panfish predators?

I imagine some like LMB maybe rely on ambush?

Aren't BCP also an ambush fish also?

Pat

FWIW IMHO I always thought of GSH as primarily bass or other larger predator forage due to their size. My thinking is they would rather quickly out grow the mouth gap of a panfish. I considered stocking GSH as forage for my YP and decided against it for that reason.