Pond Boss Forums MANAGING AN EXISTING POND Corrective stocking Stocking Golden Shiners observation

We periodically stock Golden Shiners in my club pond. In the past I have dome it and then the guy on the truck does it.

The Golden Shiners are trucked from Cincinnati Ohio to my area in northern Ohio. (Jones Fish) The guy on the truck just dumps them in the pond. I've watched the school swim in a large group with predators chasing them, and they tend to go belly up and die in large numbers.

So they are raised in a tank, then stressed by a 4 hour transport, then dumped directly in with predators chasing them. That has to stress the heck out of them.

When I put them in I go to a small cove on the pond that tapers into swamp. The water is about 3 feet deep near the pond and tapers to nothing with most of it in a shallow pool. The opening to the pond is largely covered by brush. When I put them in there very few die and they can be seen to linger in that area for days. There is plenty of food in there for them.

That's my observation, it's just that sometimes the driver doesn't want to listen. Yes it takes a few more minutes, but this year if he doesn't do what I require he can take his stock back with him. With us spending $700 or so dollars on stock he can place them exactly as we require, his opinion has no value.

So, what about this observation.

garryc - you stock the shiners the proper way. The fish truck driver just does his basic job. IMO the customer with the money should talk to the management.

Garry, When I stock shiners, especially in northern Ohio and cooler elevations, I ALWAYS temper and acclimate the fish. Golden Shiners are rather fragile in terms of water chemistry shock and temperature acclimation shock mortality. Being in a hurry and just "dumping" the fish in after arriving at a pond does not save time when I make another run or refund a sale!

I understand my customers wanting to distribute forage fish throughout a pond by stocking in several locations, yet you might be amazed at how quickly the fish will disperse into a pond or lake...it is more for customer peace-of-mind than gaining any actual, effective results.

Rainman
Had 50# shiners/ 50# FHMs and you are right they will be all the round the pond in minutes- mostly getting chased and eaten! But that's what they are for

Well, I know what I've observed and they do tend to stay in the cove area for a bit. Not all of them but a good number of them. I figure it's like any other critter, release into cover.

Makes sense to me. Give them a place to have cover. I will be following that next time I release fish. I figure it this way. It can't hurt. I see no downside to doing it.

I've been to Jones Cinci twice to get small quantities of forage fish. I've found them to be helpful and flexible. When I asked one person questions they didn't know the answer to, they found me another person with more experience. I asked for a tour of their operation one time when things were slow and they happily showed me all over the place. I have no experience with trucked fish. But they seem willing to listen at the head shed. I would have a conversation when I order my fish. Make it clear there is a specific place you want them. I might further think about making arrangements to hold those fish myself and temper them for slow release. If the driver has gotten some notes on his ticket, and you meet him and say this is how it's going down, you'd think...

From the drivers perspective, he's just spent a minimum of 4 hours on the road, much more if he made other deliveries, and probably wants to get home.

More info from wikipedia that suggests that GSH remember where they were dumped into the pond, or at least learn what part of the pond is the best part to be at depending on when the food shows up!

"Golden shiners live in large groups (shoals) that roam widely. Several laboratory studies have shown that the movements of a shoal can be determined by a minority of individuals at the front of it. For example, an individual that knows when and where food is available within a large tank can lead many other fish to the right place at the right time of day. If all fish have similar knowledge, there is still a tendency for some individuals to be found always at the front of a moving shoal, possibly because they are intrinsically hungrier and more motivated to find food. Small fish are also found more often at the front of a shoal than larger fish, again possibly because they are more motivated to find food.

Like other minnows, golden shiners are sensitive to the release of an alarm substance, or schreckstoff, contained within special skin cells. If a predator catches and bites into a minnow, the skin is broken, the substance is released, and other minnows in the vicinity can detect the substance and react to it by leaving the area. The substance can also survive intact in the feces of a predator, and minnows can thus detect the presence of a minnow-eating predator through the presence of its feces. In the laboratory, golden shiners were found to react strongly to water that contained feces from snakes that had eaten other golden shiners, but not nearly as much to water laden with feces from snakes that had eaten green swordtails, a fish that does not possess an alarm substance.

Like other fishes, golden shiners have a good daily time sense and can anticipate the arrival of food when this food is made available at the same time of the day or night. They can also do this when there is more than one mealtime a day. This anticipation is expressed as swimming and positioning towards the food source, and other naive individuals can perceive this and join the anticipating fish in the hope of sharing its food.

Golden shiners are also capable of time-place learning (associating different places with different times of day). They can be taught to feed in one part of an aquarium in the morning and a different part in the afternoon; or to feed in one part in the morning, a different part at mid-day, and back to the first part in the afternoon."