Pond Boss Forums STOCKING A NEW POND Creating the food chain Grass Shrimp (again!)

Does anyone have PK Shrimp for sale to ship to me in Ohio? Fattig Fish Farm seems to have gone out of business.

Did you try calling them? It could be that their website is just down for some reason or other.

(308) 584-3451

I called and left messages twice with no response. I also talked to a pond stocking place in Tennessee that said he thought they may have gone out of business as well. I talked to Carol in the late Fall and she was going to sell me some, but the ponds froze over before she could get them seined. I hope she is still in business. I will keep trying, but if anyone else knows of a place let me know. Thanks!

Just a thought, maybe they are just still closed for the winter and will reopen when they can start seining and have product to sell?

That could be for sure. I will keep trying.

I'll try carol tomorrow or her sisters. Hang tight.

Thanks... I appreciate that!

I have reached out to Carol and family - they were having issues with their website a year ago - offered to help get them back on board but never heard back - that was November. Good people, but were struggling with decision to keep things going at the hatchery after Dale passed. Carol is running it solo - lots of work...I will keep you all apprised.

Thanks for the update TJ, let us know, I was hoping to place an order this spring.

From all I've seen (mostly from this site), there is no downside to PK shrimp. I am thinking about making a breeding tank and raising them for restocking. Has anyone on this forum done this successfully? Also, IS there any downside to the shrimp?

Zero downside to grass shrimp. They feed on detritus and are a great secondary forage source. Several Northern fisheries featuring quality Walleye, Yellow Perch, and Northern rely almost solely on a similar species - freshwater scuds - and flourish. Scuds and shrimp are great additions to any fishery IMO - I love them and stock them in all my ponds and my clients ponds, too.

Steve just come out sometime to my place, don't need to buy any...we can get some for you provided they are shallow. I have my best luck collecting in the Fall, but I'm sure we can figure something out even if it's early in the season. If you can ID any Male RES you can spare I need a dozen or so to clean up snails in the upper ponds. If they're feed trained that's ok too! If not, no worries, you're still welcome to some of my babies.

Hope Carol can still find a way to fill some orders. I had emailed her a week ago or so to place an order and did not hear back!

I hope to start some cultures inside for freshwater scuds and from time to time restock my pond.

I just spoke with Carol - lots going on - trying to help them out. For now it appears they will not be in business. I will do what I can to assist. Will check back in soon. Worse case I'll try to pick up the slack and dedicate a cell to Grass Shrimp and try to fill orders this year. Next day air freight is killer - gotta figure a way to go 2 day ground and keep them alive. Gonna take some experimentation.

I saw this idea in a thread a while back if ya don't already have a plan.

Pure o2 in the bag does wonders, I bet you could get two days if you put them in nice clean water then pure O2.
Maybe dont feed them for a day or so to lower waste in the bag.

Purge for at least 3 days - good tip. 2/3 O2 and 1/3 well water? Pond water? Distilled water?

TJ,

If you get this going in the future, please post back and let us know. I think there are a lot of folks that would like to get some, including me!

I've helped facilitate a few dozen sales with Dale for the forum, he was getting up there and had issues remembering orders, multiple shipping instructions, etc. so I did what I could to coordinate. It kinda became an annual tradition I would call with several thousand shrimp sent all over the US to my pond boss bros, even after Dale passed. Now Carol is working the farm solo and it's too much for her alone. No margins to afford help, just keeps the bills paid on the farm, and she's not making a dime. She's trying to honor Dale's pricing established with me years ago and can't make it work.

I'm going to try and help with some new fish ideas [BNM, SFS, LCS] and develop the Pond Boss market if possible. I'm sure we can beat the $4/ea price from other sources online and make sure everyone is 100% legal to import fish from another state with disease certification, etc. Wish me luck - I'm gonna need it - long haul uphill.

TJ,
Carol had the system down pat she may be able to tell you. She used standard USPS 2 day shipping in a medium (maybe large?) flat rate box. she had green foam board I'd guess 3/8" thickness cut to line the bottom and inside 4 sides of the box. Then a bag with maybe only 4" of water in the bottom with my PK shrimp, nothing but the native water they were in that looked a bit greenish, but no plants, leaves etc. Not sure if they needed oxygen, perhaps she put some in she would know. The bag was not under any pressure like my other shipped items come when there is oxygen in the bags. Then a green styrofoam lid and taped the top. It helped that she shipped when the ambient temp was cooler (spring or fall best).

She said flat rate using priority mail was 2 day delivery from her zip to mine in Michigan. Weather was cool, came on time, no losses. USPS flat rate boxes might be the ticket for at least some customers. I think my shipping was $40-45 if I recall.

I'd love to place another order.

Bill D your instructions are good, they apply to scuds (Gammarus sp)

I am told by sellers that ghost shrimp or PK shrimp are larger and more tolerant of lower oxygen conditions that may occur during shipping.

Scuds are smaller and more dependent on water and oxygen conditions to be right for survival.

The quote below is from an email I had from a seller of scuds:

PK Shrimp also require less oxygen than adult freshwater scuds (Gammarus sp). I would not ship a gallon of Gammarus in a flat rate box nor a gallon that would take two days to arrive...you would have dead shrimp. We ship a gallon of Gammarus in a 5 gallon styro pail which is 1 gallon of shrimp and 4 gallons of water...if this package arrives in two days due to UPS messing up the order, then the shrimp are dead.

The prize at the top of that hill might surprise everybody. IMHO I personally think you will have so many folks standing in line for those much sought after but hard to get resources, there is no way you will be able to keep up with demand.

I will see what I can do with the male RES.

I'll run a net this weekend and ping you. Might be another couple months. Don't worry about the res unless it's convenient and obvious.

It is still a little early, late May or early June is probably the best time to try to sex RES. I am pretty sure the big RES in my aquarium is male but it should become more obvious as the days get longer. I'm guessing close to 9" now, was 4"+ last June when I seined it out of the pond. My best guess is that three of the four I have indoors at the moment are male RES.

You guys are great!!! Hope things work out. I'm certainly willing to pay an amount that makes it profitable. The only reason anyone even knows about PK shrimp is this site. If we can help Carol, we should...as a group. I didn't know Dale, but I have followed threads on this for a couple of years. Seems like they always tried to help us out. When I called Carol in the Fall, she was willing to send me shrimp with only my word I would send her the money even though I had never been a customer. I was just too late in the year and the ponds froze over before she could seine them.

I'd like to join vosler in commitment to pay for PK, even though I don't actually have a pond yet. They bring back great memories of fishing for "shellcracker" -- RES -- with my dad using PK. I want them in my BOW to show my kids & grandkids what intrigued me when I was young.

It's a shame hearing about Fattig's issues. You're a good man TJ trying to keep the ship upright. I'm really glad we pioneered the PK shrimp and other pondmeisters can reap their benefits. No reason not to stock them!

Certainly we would like to help too. Is it challenging to raise them if more of us helped to keep a culture going say staged strategically across the US and helped distribute to others in our neck of the woods?

I'm not aware of what it would take for ghost shrimp. I understand that the smaller scuds are very easy to keep a self-sustaining colony going starting with just a few adults, some dead leaves, a 20 gallon container, and a little aeration.

TJ, I think any business that provides a sales and service has to find a "nitch" in the market. The business does not have to be the cheapest, but the best it can be. And it has to provide quality, and it has to be there when needed. And the business has to make enough profit to keep interest of the mgr and or owner. So, maybe with your helping her find a market, get her a helper, and getting her a profit, she may want to continue or turn it over to someone who has the desire to enjoy.

Respect for your efforts here
Tracy

Travis, you and Jakeb are the ones who did the research and sourced them at Fattigs. I just made sure we could funnel all the business we possibly could to them, and ensured my buddies got their shrimp on time and alive. Happy to help - it's comforting knowing that many of you have Cornhusker shrimp thriving in your ponds.

I am still waiting on a call from Carol and Susan. Will keep you apprised. It would be awesome to have a reliable source for LCS, BNM, and SFS and maybe other fish species. I'm trying.

Thanks for the packing tips, Canyon. I might need all the help I can get if I don't hear from them soon. The thought of buying shrimp for $1/ea from online aquarium stores is nauseating.

Im lucky I can keep the warm water ones redily avail at pet stores...

I'm thinking of starting a tank to breed wild caught ones. Figure it's not a lot different than prawns. What do you think guys?

and gals!

look at scudds cultures too. There are small ?photoplankton? The baby grass shrimp need to eat that ,are hard to provide in captivity. Might need to look into that, but it should be a fun project.

please keep us posted.

I've had luck tank raising PK shrimp in older aquariums. Newer ones don't seem to have the infusoria needed.

Thanks CJ

infusoria. That sent me to wikipedia.

Getting tanks tomorrow. Will need to get with someone in Indiana that can "guide" me to places I can catch PK's. later this spring. Any takers?

vosler - try going to some of the marsh areas boarding LkErie; that is where I got mine.

Vosler, vegetated back waters of the big river(s) around you...

I will give that a try. I have some large creeks near my home. Research showed a lot of scud type invertebrates, but failed to mention PK shrimp. The distribution line is near me but right on the edge. I think I will try closer to the ohio river. Sounds like a road trip!

When collecting focus on weedy habitats.

When would be the best time to go? I would like to get them before they reproduce since it is my understanding that they only reproduce once then die. Also, do they go underground for the winter? I would think they would do so, so need to know when they come back up to the grass.

Go collecting in Ohio waters May and June up until around early July to get them with eggs. Those in mid to late June to early July should be carrying eggs.

Thanks...it will take me a little while to get the tanks ready.

They don't go underground in the winter. They simply move to deeper water and become lethargic until spring warmth creates activity and sends them back to the shallows.

Do grass shrimp prefer running water (creeks or streams) or more stagnant water holes like ditches? I'll definitely be searching for grassy areas in less than 2 ft of water, from what I've gathered. Thanks for any info. I'm very interested in locating some of these critters this spring

I think grass shrimp will eat catfish food pellets. The reason I say that is that I've caught a few in my forage pond in a minnow trap baited with fish food pellets. Of course it is also a possibility that they just stumbled into the trap by accident.

Shrimp and crayfish both would feed on pellets washed into shallows of my YP/BG pond last Summer. At least I suspect the shrimp were feeding along with the crayfish. My crays grew fast and large on Aqua Max leftovers.

Grass shrimp prefer vegetated backwaters. They'll also utilize other cover such as woody root masses or rocky crevices.

I observe my grass shrimp feeding on Aquamax pellets. It'll appear the pellet is moving around on its own. A closer look will reveal one or two nearly translucent grass shrimp pushing it around as they feed.

My set-up will be 3 IBC tanks with solids separator, biofilter, and sump. My rearing tank is 100 gal with 6 dual sponge filters. I plan to raise zooplankton and supply phytoplankton from a commercial feed. Will supply brine shrimp as they grow. Any advice will be helpful.

I would sure like to see pictures and reports of your progress as you pursue your project. I think a lot of people would be interested.

I spoke with Carol today at Fattig fish and she was planning on selling grass shrimp again this year. She didn't think she would start until May this year because she had a lot of other things going on. I was glad for the later date because last year I got my shrimp in the middle of an April blizzard. I didn't discuss anything regarding mass orders with pondboss members because I was just excited about the chance of ordering them again.

Good news Joel - I'm still waiting on a call back.

I am very interested please let me know if an order is put together.

Just spoke to Carol. Looks like it might be on this year! Great!!

I'd love to order, keep us posted

ME TOO!!

Carol emailed me the other day, sorry I didn't alert you all. She indicated she was back in business - website apparently up and running now.

Great news! Stocking your pond with grass shrimp is an excellent investment. Almost nearly any goal would benefit from stocking them...

Please remind me -- can I stock these in a mature BG/LMB pond with any hope of recruitment?

Talking GS -I have a question - can you catch tidal water grass shrimp and re locate them to a fresh water pond.
Its always been a great bait in tidal tributary fishing here.
Figuring maybe catch and release. Just don't know if they will survive the water chemistry difference.
I have read that after a big rain the don't seem to be in the same shallows when you are catching them for bait. But that could just be temperature drop
Any of you coastal guys tried it. ?

I'm worried that with many hungry mouths (YP, GSH, LCS, FHM, tadpoles, crayfish (very few) turtles, a few juvenile RES, LES, and now goldfish) and very little vegetation that I'll be serving a quick snack fest and have no long term success. I think I'll need to wait and see if the vegetation 'fills out' in warmer water temps, or will have to net off a portion of the pond as a growing/breeding area, or think of some other cover.

Does anyone know if they stay shallow? Will they go in gravel or rocks and hide in crevices? If I have vegetation deeper in the pond will they go deeper to find that protective cover?

I did email Carol about some of this and she was helpful but is also busy fielding requests for orders to and want to be respectful of her time. She did suggest having cover and perhaps waiting a bit to stock.

Yes, I recommend some emergent/submergent vegetation present in order for GS to escape predation. However, even in some of my ponds without vegetation the GS persisted - they moved very shallow and foraged and hid in FA in very shallow water [6" depth].

The coastal species do not survive in ponds.

If vegetation is present, stock the shrimp at night into it for highest survival rates.

We have lots of FA! Will that work?

It is not ideal, but does provide some habitat and food source for the shrimp. If no predators are present, establishment is easy even without proper habitat.

I'd be interested in getting some also. Best way is to go to the website?
I have very little vegetation in the pond. It's new, and the banks are steep, plus it's not full yet. I do have some rock below the surface, and lots of submerged leaves from last fall. My SMB aren't stocked yet, so hopefully survival will be good.

Talked with Carol 2 weeks ago; ponds were too high to seine at the time.
My question for you experienced grass shrimp stockers is how many shrimp would I want to order?
Pond is 1/4 acre with abundant Elodea, FA, cattail and bulrush border, cool water.
Fish are LMB, mostly smaller; YP, smattering of BG-only 18 added last year and no visible reproduction yet, couple of GSF, 5 GC, 16 trout-mix of RBT and BRNT.
Carol was unsure how many PKs I needed so I thought I'd ask here. Thanks.
Roger

just a note on stocking shrimp early before things can eat them .

Yesterday I had on my mask and snorkel as I was placing a water lily . I took the time to look around a it and I was absolutly amazed at how many grass shrimp I saw. They covered every surface. The entire pond looked like the holding tank that petsmart keeps the feeder shrimp in. When I stock the Golden Redbreast Sunfish in this fall they will have lots of shrimp eat...

Maybe I can help? I know nothing about your pond or how well the shrimp will have a hiding place but i can share my experience. My pond is 1/3 acre at full pool, probably most of the year it is 1/4 acre as it is a groundwater pond and now we have hit a dry spell and it is dropping fast. My water temps might be different than yours being you are in Colorado and altitude might make a difference? I do aerate at night in summer to try to keep water more cool.

I had an empty pond last spring except for GSH and FHM. I had minimal vegetation at the time that I stocked the shrimp in April of last year. Later that summer I had an explosion of FA and eurasion milfoil (unwanted!!) so probably there were plenty of places for the shrimp to hide.

My pond is in West Michigan where winter kill was a concern. I was told winter wouldn't hurt them based on them living through brutal midwest plain state winters just fine.

I ordered 100 shrimp.. Seemed like not nearly enough. I figured if they can hide in the algae they may make it. I never saw them again. I figured, I'll just restock this spring.

I ended up treating the weeds but not the FA. I later added RES, LES, (only a few of each), LCS (only 25) and late in the summer crayfish. i have unwanted goldfish and have seen several spawns of FHM, not sure about shiner spawns.

This spring no weeds, almost barren after ice out, ?goldfish or crayfish effect? Some weeds growing back now.

I added 100 perch and this past weekend about 10 pounds of tilapia.

But this spring while raking out the FA I would see 5-10 shrimp in every load of FA.

I don't see them swimming or taking pellets but there must be at least thousands in there by now if i see them when raking the FA.

So if you have no predators or very few like I did and have FA or weeds for them to hide in (probably leaves help too) I bet they make it and in a year or two you have lots of them

Ok, from all the info above, I think my pond would be a good one for the Grass Shrimp.
How do I get in touch with the seller? Is her place the only one in the US, to get grass shrimp?
Thanks
Jeff

Thanks for the replies. Our pond has plenty of cover both in the form of submergent weeds and FA, and several sunken brush piles.
Prolly like you, I've been thinking how can 100 shrimp possible be enough with lots of hungry mouths lurking. But from what I can gather from lots of reading, 100 may be enough to start a good population, as there are both lots of diverse hiding places and plenty of shrimp food.
Has anyone reading this ordered from Fattigs in the last couple of weeks?
And, what experiences are out there regarding their cold water adapted gambusia in ponds with established predators and plenty of cover and some shallow water?

I ordered grass shrimp from Carol last week, and I'm pretty happy about my order. I emailed her and shared some information about how shrimp are shipped in the aquarium hobby, via two day USPS, and she did an experiment to see how well the shrimp would fare. She told me that the experiment was a success so I went ahead and ordered 100 grass shrimp.

The shrimp arrived in two separate kordon breather bags and were insulated with newspaper.

In the box:



Out of the box. She shipped some duck weed with the shrimp so the shrimp have something to hold onto and won't just toss around.


The shrimp did very well. I kept 80 in a tub with an air stone, feeding them sparingly and they survived for 4 days until I could put them in my forage pond. Only 1 shrimp died in that 4 day period.

I put the other 20 shrimp (18 pregnant females and 2 males) in my aquarium for observation and just as a hedge just in case the first batch of shrimp didn't make it, but they all did.

Shrimp eating protein pellets:





You can really see this guy's organs. I thought it was a brain but upon closer inspection, it was beating rhythmically so I think it might be a heart.



Two days after putting the shrimp in, I had one female hatch her eggs. I currently have about 10 shrimp in larvae form floating around the top of my tank. Here's a blurry phone picture of one of them floating around with my Co2 bubbles:




All in all, I'm pretty happy about the order and Carol was a great help. Using two day shipping brought the price down per order a significant amount, but I'd check the temperatures in your locale because that might change how well the shrimp do in shipping. It was about 75/80 degrees when my shrimp were shipped to me. In the future, I might even order another 100 shrimp to really jump start my forage/YP pond. Hope this write up helps!

That is great news because I put a order in last week.

Received my 100 grass shrimp order from Carol at Fattig -
The water temp in the box was still in mid 70s with a cool pack.
I was real concerned because air temps here have been in higher 90S
for a week.
Only one DOA i could spot and we had a bonus hitch hiker . A 1/4 " Cray fish.
All released and hopefully doing their job in the chain.
Can't say enough how much a pleasure it was dealing with Carol.
Real old fashioned Old school service.

What price was it to ship 100 shrimp and how much per shrimp?? They look great in the pics!

I'll say it again, regardless of goals, grass shrimp are a winner and should be stocked in just about every pond. They are fantastic forage with no bad side affects...

My order should arrive next Wednesday. 400 (4 x 100 in 2 day shippers) for a one acre pond. I'll let you know how it goes.
I'll echo everyone else's comments, Carol has been great to work with.

Just a quick update on the grass shrimp.
Carol was going to ship Monday, but had to attend a funeral, so she shipped Tuesday. That's the good news. The bad news is, the shrimp are lost somewhere between Gothenburg, NE and St Louis Mo. Calls to the post office reveal that the two day delivery really means five days? I was told they can't trace it until five days, when it's considered late?? Well, I had been trying to work around St Louis since Tuesday, in case they came in. Tomorrow I have to be in Peoria at 7:00am. So if they show up, my wife is going to see if any are alive. If they are live, she's taking them the 90 miles to the pond and releasing them. I've given her the how to on acclimating them.
I'll update this after the shrimp arrive.
The pond has come up another foot, just a few more inches to full, so the shrimp will have grass to hide in, if any arrive alive. Edit. Carol has been very good to work with. It's not her fault the post office is screwing this up.

Setter guy - thats a bummer.
Carol sent me the tracking number and I tracked it.
So if she sent the tracking number you should be able to also.
Sometimes the PO will just sluff ya off if they can. depends on the office . Ours is extremely helpful.
Our original tracking said it would take 3 days but it made it in two.
The new bags she is using absorb air so they might be OK if the heat doesn't get them.
Hope it goes well.

Carol sent me the tracking numbers right away. Following those, it looks like it sat there in Gothenburg for a full 24 hrs before they moved it. I kept checking the tracking, but they just sat.. Then I started calling. All they do is look at the same tracking screen I was looking at, and repeat it.
If these make it, that'll be great, and demonstrate how well the packaging supports the shrimp. We've had very cool (60s & 70s) weather here for the last few days, maybe they'll make it.

The Grass Shrimp came in. I'm in Peoria. My wife is stepping up. On the way to the post office to pick them up. Drive up to the farm, get them loaded into the Big Red, and transplant them in the pond. I told her to take a picture or two. I owe her now. Ha

If you have morts, Carol will make it right. They are good NE folk - stand behind their word without fail. Worst case, you can come get some in Lincoln this Fall.

are they alive?

My wife put them in the pond yesterday. She said overall there were very few that didn't make it. That's a four day shipment. Taken to the post office in Nebraska on Tuesday afternoon, and put in the pond on Friday around noon. Carol was great to work with, she's offered to ship any replacements at no charge, but I think she put in some extras, so we are all good. I missed it all. My wife had to do everything, and she said once she added some pond water to the bags, and put her hand down into the bag, they got pretty lively. At one point she thought one entire bag had died out, but they came around. I haven't seen one yet. I was down on the bank just now. Even ran a net into the grass. There aren't any floating around, but I can't find any alive either. Probably down into the grass.
Turns out Carol's new "less expensive" way to ship the shrimp works pretty well!

You're on your way, now. This Fall, be thinking feed trained SMB - depending on goals, between 25-75/acre. Have you stocked RES yet? Are you considering HBG? If so, this Fall is a good time for the RES, maybe wait until next fall for the HBG so the SMB have a good head start on them. HSB and WE could be ladder stocked either this fall or next - you want a population of 35-50/acre again depending on goals. For HSB I'd do that 10-12 fish annually across 5-6 years depending on harvest and same for WE.

Thanks! I should have read this earlier! I just posted on these questions. SMB going in this fall. Others, next yr.

Setterguy, any sign of your grass shrimp. The interest in PK shrimp is still high on the forum. If enough of us who had the fortune of getting Carol F's shrimp could find a way to trap them we could send small batches to other PB members.

It only required a small bag of about 100 for my pond to establish. I imagine even though your pond is about 6X the size of mine that your 2 bags will be adquate as long as there was some natural cover for them to hide in.

TJ, you worked with Carol I think, how did she harvest them? I've read that they are gathered through the ice in winter? But how?

I'm happy to try to help other fellow PB members out.

Perhaps someone with a aquaponics indoor system could throw a handful in and find it easier to net them out when someone wants a few shipped to them?

From previous posts in this thread, it sounds like she seined them in the early summer.

I would love to get some this summer. If I ever get a population started you can count me in on a "share a shrimp" program.

SetterGuy, any sign of your shrimp? Maybe those who have populations of PK shrimp can do as Bill D suggests and try to determine the best way to seine or gather small populations and 'share a shrimp'

It seemed that Carol got them through the ice somehow.

TJ would know...

BUMP

Bill, are grass shrimp easier to harvest by breaking ice and netting out of shallows in the winter?

Many still are trying to find a way to get a 'share a shrimp' program going for these desirable PK shrimp