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#404712 - 03/21/15 12:27 AM Should I be concerned?
edit7279 Offline


Registered: 03/04/15
Posts: 124
Loc: Dallas & Clarksville, Texas
I feel like this is a newbie question, but today I discovered my small pond is home to a rather large turtle and a large snake.

Seeing as how I just stocked the pond, I don't want all of my little fish to become a buffet. Should I deal with these two fellas or just let them be and not worry about it.

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#404716 - 03/21/15 05:45 AM Re: Should I be concerned? [Re: edit7279]
Dave Davidson1 Offline
Moderator
Lunker

Registered: 01/04/06
Posts: 13088
Loc: Hurst & Bowie, Texas
I've never considered turtles a problem. To me, they are mostly the clean up crew when a fish is sick or dies. They are mostly vegetarians. A snapping turtle will take an occasional healthy fish but it is unusual.

I know nothing about snakes as predators of fish. I'm sure they are but doubt that they can effect the population balance. I did catch a huge brown water snake a couple of years ago in a large fish trap and I figure he was in there due to the fish that I had caught. I released it. I dang sure don't like getting them in a seine but it happens.

Both snakes and turtles will come and go in the pond. I don't worry about them.
_________________________
It's not about the fish. It's about the pond. Take care of the pond and the fish will be fine. PB subscriber since before it was in color.

Without a sense of urgency, Nothing ever gets done.

Boy, if I say "sic em", you'd better look for something to bite. Sam Shelley Rancher and Farmer Muleshoe Texas 1892-1985 RIP

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#404732 - 03/21/15 09:17 AM Re: Should I be concerned? [Re: Dave Davidson1]
esshup Offline
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Lunker

Registered: 01/26/09
Posts: 24001
Loc: Grovertown, Indiana
Ditto
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#404739 - 03/21/15 09:39 AM Re: Should I be concerned? [Re: edit7279]
Bill D. Offline


Registered: 10/19/14
Posts: 5299
Loc: Boone County Illinois
FWIW I had a scuffle with a 3 to 4 foot long snake in central Indiana eating fish on our stringer. I pulled out the stringer and the snake got pretty aggressive. I don't know what kind of snake it was but I am not a fan of large water snakes. I would get rid of the water snake unless yer show what kind it is and know it's harmless.


Edited by Bill D. (03/21/15 09:40 AM)
Edit Reason: Clarification
_________________________

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#404752 - 03/21/15 10:58 AM Re: Should I be concerned? [Re: Bill D.]
Pat Williamson Offline


Registered: 08/08/14
Posts: 2107
Loc: Oakwood,Texas
Last week I had a run in with a 3' cotton mouth. He was summon on the board walkway to the pier. He didn't want to leave so he opened his mouth an showed his dental goods, I just poked him with my fishing pole to make him leave. And yes I would have blasted him if I wold have been packing

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#404760 - 03/21/15 12:40 PM Re: Should I be concerned? [Re: edit7279]
edit7279 Offline


Registered: 03/04/15
Posts: 124
Loc: Dallas & Clarksville, Texas
Alright, thanks guys. The turtle is more than welcome to stay, but I can't say the same for the snake.

It was about 3' in length and colored like a rattlesnake, but no rattle. I'm guessing it was a water moccasin, but can't be sure. Either way, I'm not taking any chances.

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#404763 - 03/21/15 01:07 PM Re: Should I be concerned? [Re: edit7279]
Pat Williamson Offline


Registered: 08/08/14
Posts: 2107
Loc: Oakwood,Texas
Was it in the water? Prob a water snake. Water moccasin will float when swimming, where a water snake just the head will be out. Moccasins are short and fat and almost black- nasty smelling also

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#404765 - 03/21/15 01:18 PM Re: Should I be concerned? [Re: edit7279]
edit7279 Offline


Registered: 03/04/15
Posts: 124
Loc: Dallas & Clarksville, Texas
Na, it was sunning up on the bank. Looked identical to this one.

https://c2.staticflickr.com/8/7097/7049135693_2211718a7f.jpg

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#404768 - 03/21/15 01:29 PM Re: Should I be concerned? [Re: edit7279]
Pat Williamson Offline


Registered: 08/08/14
Posts: 2107
Loc: Oakwood,Texas
Cottonmouth are fat and short... Goggle them

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#404771 - 03/21/15 01:50 PM Re: Should I be concerned? [Re: edit7279]
Bill D. Offline


Registered: 10/19/14
Posts: 5299
Loc: Boone County Illinois
Originally Posted By: edit7279
Na, it was sunning up on the bank. Looked identical to this one.

https://c2.staticflickr.com/8/7097/7049135693_2211718a7f.jpg


That looks a lot like the snake I had the scuffle with. What kind is it?
_________________________

You'll never know what ya can catch unless you wet a line!

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#404772 - 03/21/15 02:15 PM Re: Should I be concerned? [Re: Bill D.]
Pat Williamson Offline


Registered: 08/08/14
Posts: 2107
Loc: Oakwood,Texas
That feller looks to be a subspecies of a water moccasin, note the pit under the eye
Not 109% sure

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#404773 - 03/21/15 02:15 PM Re: Should I be concerned? [Re: edit7279]
edit7279 Offline


Registered: 03/04/15
Posts: 124
Loc: Dallas & Clarksville, Texas
That pic I posted is a water moccasin, also known as a cottonmouth.

(Which I surprisingly just learned are one in the same...I always thought a cottonmouth was a version of rattlesnake.)

Here's one getting handled...although I don't know what in the world this guy was thinking picking it up like that after he shot it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DNwPh08S9RQ

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#404775 - 03/21/15 02:41 PM Re: Should I be concerned? [Re: edit7279]
Pat Williamson Offline


Registered: 08/08/14
Posts: 2107
Loc: Oakwood,Texas
Most cottonmouth Mocs are almost black except for the species you showed... Nasty fellows

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#404776 - 03/21/15 02:50 PM Re: Should I be concerned? [Re: edit7279]
Dave Davidson1 Offline
Moderator
Lunker

Registered: 01/04/06
Posts: 13088
Loc: Hurst & Bowie, Texas
Or, at least they are usually black in Texas.

I have found that very few water snakes are actually venomous. Cottonmouths are the only water snake I've found with an attitude. Most snakes just want to go somewhere else in a hurry.
_________________________
It's not about the fish. It's about the pond. Take care of the pond and the fish will be fine. PB subscriber since before it was in color.

Without a sense of urgency, Nothing ever gets done.

Boy, if I say "sic em", you'd better look for something to bite. Sam Shelley Rancher and Farmer Muleshoe Texas 1892-1985 RIP

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#404777 - 03/21/15 03:07 PM Re: Should I be concerned? [Re: edit7279]
Mike Otto Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 11/17/03
Posts: 144
Loc: Texas
Did not know cottonmouths and water moccasin where the same--and living outdoors most of the time I should have known, good info

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#404778 - 03/21/15 03:12 PM Re: Should I be concerned? [Re: edit7279]
Bill D. Offline


Registered: 10/19/14
Posts: 5299
Loc: Boone County Illinois
I think this is what I had the scuffle with. Diamond back water snake.



Attachments
800px-Daimondback_Watersnake.jpg (286 downloads)



Edited by Bill D. (03/21/15 03:12 PM)
_________________________

You'll never know what ya can catch unless you wet a line!

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#404779 - 03/21/15 03:26 PM Re: Should I be concerned? [Re: Dave Davidson1]
Pat Williamson Offline


Registered: 08/08/14
Posts: 2107
Loc: Oakwood,Texas
Originally Posted By: Dave Davidson1
Or, at least they are usually black in Texas.

I have found that very few water snakes are actually venomous. Cottonmouths are the only water snake I've found with an attitude. Most snakes just want to go somewhere else in a hurry.

Had one this weekend open mouth and all that- dangit no pistol with me at time

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#404780 - 03/21/15 03:29 PM Re: Should I be concerned? [Re: Bill D.]
basslover Offline


Registered: 12/06/14
Posts: 536
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: Bill D.
Originally Posted By: edit7279
Na, it was sunning up on the bank. Looked identical to this one.

https://c2.staticflickr.com/8/7097/7049135693_2211718a7f.jpg


That looks a lot like the snake I had the scuffle with. What kind is it?


That is a copperhead, Bill.

Venomous but most healthy adults will recover without much effort. The very young, the very old, and the immune system compromised suffer most from copperhead bites.

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#404781 - 03/21/15 03:32 PM Re: Should I be concerned? [Re: Bill D.]
basslover Offline


Registered: 12/06/14
Posts: 536
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: Bill D.
I think this is what I had the scuffle with. Diamond back water snake.



Yup just a common water snake. These species will bite if provoked or strike out when attempting to flee if threatened. No venom, but a puncture would could cause an infection depending on the bacteria in the water snake's mouth. They will dine on fish, frogs, tadpoles, mice, etc.

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#404782 - 03/21/15 03:46 PM Re: Should I be concerned? [Re: basslover]
Pat Williamson Offline


Registered: 08/08/14
Posts: 2107
Loc: Oakwood,Texas
Originally Posted By: basslover
Originally Posted By: Bill D.
Originally Posted By: edit7279
Na, it was sunning up on the bank. Looked identical to this one.

https://c2.staticflickr.com/8/7097/7049135693_2211718a7f.jpg


That looks a lot like the snake I had the scuffle with. What kind is it?


That is a copperhead, Bill.

Venomous but most healthy adults will recover without much effort. The very young, the very old, and the immune system compromised suffer most from copperhead bites.

Look again bass lover that is a lesser seen cottonmouth that is brown and not blackish .

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#404783 - 03/21/15 04:00 PM Re: Should I be concerned? [Re: Pat Williamson]
snrub Offline


Registered: 10/05/13
Posts: 4200
Loc: SE Kansas
We have the diamond back water snakes in our ponds but they are more the brownish color like the water moccasin pictured. But can definitely tell by the head that ours is not poisonous. The poisonous snakes have that broad more diamond shaped head where the poison glands are. Non-poisonous heads more slender. At least that is the way it appears to me.

Saw one in our old pond last summer with a 4" or so bullhead in its mouth swimming out to deeper water. When I came along it was at the bank and I scared it, so it swam away, but was not going to give up its meal so was swimming on the surface with its catch. Have a half dozen 13" LMB in that pond now, so it better watch out or it will become the meal.


Edited by snrub (03/21/15 04:00 PM)
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John

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#404786 - 03/21/15 04:15 PM Re: Should I be concerned? [Re: snrub]
Bill D. Offline


Registered: 10/19/14
Posts: 5299
Loc: Boone County Illinois
Originally Posted By: snrub
We have the diamond back water snakes in our ponds but they are more the brownish color like the water moccasin pictured. But can definitely tell by the head that ours is not poisonous. The poisonous snakes have that broad more diamond shaped head where the poison glands are. Non-poisonous heads more slender. At least that is the way it appears to me.


IIRC I read somewhere you can also tell by the pupils in their eyes. Nonpoisonous have round pupils and poisonous are verticel elliptical shape.

I dun plan to get close enough to get that good a look! grin


Edited by Bill D. (03/21/15 04:16 PM)
_________________________

You'll never know what ya can catch unless you wet a line!

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#404796 - 03/21/15 05:10 PM Re: Should I be concerned? [Re: edit7279]
edit7279 Offline


Registered: 03/04/15
Posts: 124
Loc: Dallas & Clarksville, Texas
Bill D. The pic you posted is a dead ringer for the one I walked up on. I won't be getting close enough to check its pupils either. Ha. Hopefully we'll cross paths again this weekend when I'm armed.

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#404798 - 03/21/15 05:28 PM Re: Should I be concerned? [Re: edit7279]
Bill D. Offline


Registered: 10/19/14
Posts: 5299
Loc: Boone County Illinois
I read somewhere those guys can get 10 to 12 feet long down South!
_________________________

You'll never know what ya can catch unless you wet a line!

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#404801 - 03/21/15 05:50 PM Re: Should I be concerned? [Re: Bill D.]
Pat Williamson Offline


Registered: 08/08/14
Posts: 2107
Loc: Oakwood,Texas
6' is a big one

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