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Joined: Oct 2014
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OP
Joined: Oct 2014
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Guys,
Now that I moved back to the country, I realize I need a varmint rifle. The area is full of yotes and I also want to be able to scare my feathered neighbors away from the pond as well. I am looking for suggestions on what to buy. My property line is about 200 yards off my deck so I am looking for a gun that can reach out that far. The kicker is, in that same direction, I have neighbors about 3/4 of a mile away so I don't want a long range round. I am currently thinking a 22 shooting shorts or longs hollow point. I don't want to spend a bunch of money on the rifle and scope. Any suggestions on what to buy that will "get er done," not scare the crap out of the neighbors and not break the wallet?
Thanks!
Bill
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Joined: Jun 2008
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Ambassador Lunker
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You're wanting the ability to kill a coyote at 200 yds? Forget the shorts. If you're wanting a .22, I think you'll need a 22 magnum at least.
"Forget pounds and ounces, I'm figuring displacement!"
If we accept that: MBG(+)FGSF(=)HBG(F1)
And we surmise that: BG(>)HBG(F1) while GSF(<)HBG(F1)
Would it hold true that: HBG(F1)(+)AM500(x)q.d.(=)1.5lbGRWT?
PB answer: It depends.
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I want to a least scare the crap out of him. I am worried about a long range round. I have a 30 30 already. Would that be a better slow velocity round for the yotes at 200 and still not maime a neighbor at 3/4 mile?
Last edited by Bill D.; 03/19/15 08:53 PM. Reason: Clarification
Be Brave Enough to Suck at Something New!
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Water is the basis of all life, by design!
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Bill do you want to scare them or out them down. Even the lowly.22 will go a mile. Be sure what you are shooting at. I use a .25-06 for everything. Took out two yotes at 230 yards. Your thuty thuty is good for 100-150 yds. A .223 is a decent vermin round.
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Joined: Sep 2014
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Bill, I love my 22 Mag for a lot of things, and I bought several hundred rounds back when everyone was buying, but today the 22mag rounds are hard to find. So whatever u buy, I would make sure the ammo is easily found.
Tracy
Do not judge me by the politicians in my City, State or Federal Government.
Tracy
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Pat, the 22 box says range one mile. I've never believed it. So, I just now checked some ballistic tables. The one I looked at said a drop of 163 inches at 300 yards when zeroed at 50 yards. I cannot verify this.
I love the Rem 222 that I had(now in my Grandsons hands). I remember shooting at a buck that I later ranged at 425 yards. I had zeroed at 100 yards. Aiming at the top of the shoulder, the bullet dropped at it's feet and didn't even scare him. Admittedly, I built the ammo and did the shooting so that is always highly suspect.
Bill, I would probably go with one of the 22 center fires or possibly the 24 or 25 calibers. But, if you're concerned about what might happen at 3/4 mile, look at ballistics tables before you buy.
Esshup is the real expert but has very limited internet access at this time. A week ago, he dropped a coyote at 863 yards. Yep, about 1/2 mile. Scott makes it all look easy.
Last edited by Dave Davidson1; 03/20/15 06:02 AM.
It's not about the fish. It's about the pond. Take care of the pond and the fish will be fine. PB subscriber since before it was in color.
Without a sense of urgency, Nothing ever gets done.
Boy, if I say "sic em", you'd better look for something to bite. Sam Shelley Rancher and Farmer Muleshoe Texas 1892-1985 RIP
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It's a tough call. Getting the oomph needed to take a coyote at 200 yds while still limiting bullet travel is tricky.
If it were me, I'm not sure I would be willing to take the chance. Shooting towards the neighbors is not something I would feel comfortable doing.
"Forget pounds and ounces, I'm figuring displacement!"
If we accept that: MBG(+)FGSF(=)HBG(F1)
And we surmise that: BG(>)HBG(F1) while GSF(<)HBG(F1)
Would it hold true that: HBG(F1)(+)AM500(x)q.d.(=)1.5lbGRWT?
PB answer: It depends.
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Joined: Oct 2014
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OP
Joined: Oct 2014
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Thanks for the inputs so far guys.
Thought about it and the longest shot would probably 150 yards as the terrain beyond that is tall grass prairie and probably would not have a shot anyway.
Sparkie,
There are a lot of trees between them and us but......I'm with you on the saftety thing.
I am not in a big hurry. I will leave this thread open for a while and hope for more inputs to consider.
Last edited by Bill D.; 03/20/15 07:42 AM.
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..If it were me, I'm not sure I would be willing to take the chance. Shooting towards the neighbors is not something I would feel comfortable doing... Tony, I'm right there with you. Neighbors, neighbor's cattle, and neighbor's horses make any shot I would take difficult. esshup's down here right now, and he recommended Barnes Varmint Grenade bullets for problematic critters. Any contact causes them to shatter, and that is of course if you reload. I'm sure he'll be back in circulation at some point, so he should have some great advice.
AL
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Lunker
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I am not a ballistics expert, but inside of 125 yards, my 77/44 all-weather bolt-action Ruger, using LEVERevolution ammo, is a tack driver. Without this expensive ammo it is pretty poor. Its my deer gun. Beyond 100 yds you need to compensate for some substantial drop. Its almost like carrying around a 22. Love this gun. http://www.ruger.com/products/rotaryMagazine7744/models.htmlhttp://www.hornady.com/store/leverevolutionA couple before pics from the trail cam. (Life is good!) Date is obviously wrong.  
Last edited by RAH; 03/20/15 08:14 AM.
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I love my 6mm round, but would never use it toward a neighbor's property. If I were shooting into a hill, ok. If properly tuned, most of the current high-speed centerfires could do head shots on a yote at 200 yds.
I would second the advice to use a highly frangible bullet.
Another option is to go big and slow. I use a .44mag in a rifle for deer. That will do 150 yds but is dropping. It will be crawling along the ground before 1200 yds.
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Joined: Oct 2014
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OP
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Don't forget budget guys. I want to stay under $500 if possible.
Be Brave Enough to Suck at Something New!
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Lunker
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Lunker
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Don't forget budget guys. I want to stay under $500 if possible. Bill, do you reload? Do you have a Contender frame?
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Joined: May 2009
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Lunker
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Lunker
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Buy a single-shot rifled barreled 12-gauge slug shotgun, site it in, and know your range. Cheap but your shoulder will keep making payments:)
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Joined: Aug 2006
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Moderator Ambassador Field Correspondent  Lunker
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Moderator Ambassador Field Correspondent Lunker
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I keep two varmint guns readily available, well, actually three.
At the house I have a single shot 12 guage. It is mostly for noise, but it is also good for varmints in the garden. It is hard to miss with even small varmints like tomato eating chipmonks.
I also keep a 22 readily available at the house and one in the barn. Both are extremely similar tube-fed semiautomatics. One is my original 1958-59 J.C. Higgins Model 31 with a scope. The other is a Marlin Model 60 with the same model scope as on the Model 30. Both are dead-on accurate when sighted-in with 3-4 shells from a new batch of shells. I mostly use CCI Long Rifle shells.
IMO, 22 shorts are almost useless beyond about 25-30 yards. They are slow and they drop real fast. I've got a decent .177 air rifle that out performs a 22 short. It actually makes a pretty decent squirrel gun.
I've used a friend's 177HMR. If I were younger and I had more varmints to deal with, that is what I would pick today.
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Joined: Oct 2014
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OP
Joined: Oct 2014
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YS,
Nope, don't reload. Have lived in the city for the last 40 years. Guns I still own are down at the farm in Indiana. I don't want to bring everything up here cause that would leave my brother-in-law unarmed. Guns I would consider bringing are my old single shot 410 and a 1956 Lever Action 30 30 (This one has only had 3 rounds fired thru it).
Rah,
Considered a 12, but after they put the plate in my neck, the Doc said that would be a real bad idea.
Catmando,
Shorts are worthless. Long rifle too long a range? How about 22 Longs?
Last edited by Bill D.; 03/20/15 10:57 AM. Reason: Typo
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Bill
If you have a lot of woods between that is safer. But you still have to know what you are shooting at and the range of the critter. With bullet drop if you are shooting at animal on the ground and you miss more than likely it will bury in ground , or ricochet away into the trees . Even a smoke pole can go a long ways
Pat
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Joined: Feb 2013
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Joined: Feb 2013
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Bill
I had a neighbor that shot my Rito 6I6 Black angus bull standing about 150 yards inside my pecan orchard. He was shooting across his pasture. Glad I wasn't hunting down in there. Just food for thought.
Dale
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Moderator Ambassador Field Correspondent Lunker
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Moderator Ambassador Field Correspondent Lunker
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.22 long rifle won't have the oomph and wind is a problem. Plus the soft lead bullet will tend to ricochet vs. bust up in to fragments.
For 150 yds or less, I'd look at the .17 HMR. Yes, it will blow around in the wind, but I think hitting a yote in the lungs at that distance will still put them down. They are accurate too. Savage makes some pretty good packages - gun, scope, scope mount, etc. all in one.
12 ga slugs will bounce for a long ways too, plus there's the pesky recoil thing.
Or, get a .222 or .223 and use the Barnes Varmint Grenade bullets if you can find them in a store. They will break up in teeny, tiny pieces just by hitting a grape. Google Barnes Bullets and see if you can find a video of how they work.
If you're worried about noise, purchase a silencer and apply for the permit, although just the silencer alone will blow your budget.
A .22 Long Rifle can shoot that far, but finding a gun that is accurate enough is a trick, then the shooter has to know where to point the gun because of the wind. Wind at that distance will blow a .22lr 6" easily. Yes, they WILL travel a mile if pointed up in the air..... A .17 HMR starts out much faster than a .22lr, but because of it's lighter weight it also drops faster, and it is a much more frangible round, breaking up easily, vs. a .22lr.
If the shooter knows the gun, has a good rest, and can read the wind, sub 1/2" groups at 100 yds are possible with the .17 HMR. I'd like to see that done with a .22lr!
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Guess I just dated myself. Last time I bought 22 ammo you had 3 choices: shorts, longs or long rifles. I see thru wiki now that Longs are pretty much extinct! Next thing ya know, it will be impossible to buy a good 8 track player! 
Be Brave Enough to Suck at Something New!
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Moderator Ambassador Field Correspondent Lunker
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Bill -- Esshup won't steer you wrong. He knows guns and projectiles better than anybody else I know. You sure caught my attention with this: a 1956 Lever Action 30 30 (This one has only had 3 rounds fired thru it) Buy your brother a cheap gun and take that one home. I have a Winchester Model 94 30-30 carbine. It is the third one I've owned. It is my most favorite all around gun for serious and effective shooting at a distance, from ground hogs to deer. As my eye glasses have changed over the years I have had to go with scopes on everything because I can only focus on the rear sight, the front sight, or the target -- but never all three. Since mine is a Winchester it ejects from the top. The vintage Marlin equivalents also do. I have an offset scope using a commercial off-set mount that looks like this.  My post-1965 30-30 was drilled and tapped for this purpose. I believe most of the Marlins were also factory drilled and tapped. If yours isn't drilled, and most pre-1965 models weren't, I wouldn't drill it. It will drop the value of the gun. But, I believe most were drilled for peep sights that will go over the iron sights. I can still used a peep sight. With a scope, the old (or new) 30-30s are very accurate and repeatable. They are light. They are rugged as a rhino. The cartridges are inexpensive. A box of 20 either 150 or 170 grain, on sale, runs $12-$15.
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Moderator Ambassador Field Correspondent Lunker
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Next thing ya know, it will be impossible to buy a good 8 track player! I've got a pristine Lafayette 8-track recorder/player. It also has the adapter to play cassettes. It is almost new. I think I got it just back a few years ago -- maybe 1976. I'd be glad to trade it to you for that 30-30!
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Guess the 30-30 has to stay. My uncle bought it for my dad's birthday in 1956 the year I was born. The birthday card is still in the case. My dad never fired it. I took it out in the early 80's behind the barn and fired three rounds at old wood fence posts still standing from when the fence went down probably 100 yards out. Took the backside out of all 3. Very very nice shooting gun. Cleaned and oiled it and put it back in the case. As far as I know, it hasn't been out of that case since.....Maybe it's time. Edit: But that 8 track player/recorder sure is tempting! I've alwasy wanted one of those!
Last edited by Bill D.; 03/20/15 04:45 PM.
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.22 long rifle won't have the oomph and wind is a problem. Plus the soft lead bullet will tend to ricochet vs. bust up in to fragments.
For 150 yds or less, I'd look at the .17 HMR. Yes, it will blow around in the wind, but I think hitting a yote in the lungs at that distance will still put them down. They are accurate too. Savage makes some pretty good packages - gun, scope, scope mount, etc. all in one.
12 ga slugs will bounce for a long ways too, plus there's the pesky recoil thing.
Or, get a .222 or .223 and use the Barnes Varmint Grenade bullets if you can find them in a store. They will break up in teeny, tiny pieces just by hitting a grape. Google Barnes Bullets and see if you can find a video of how they work.
If you're worried about noise, purchase a silencer and apply for the permit, although just the silencer alone will blow your budget.
A .22 Long Rifle can shoot that far, but finding a gun that is accurate enough is a trick, then the shooter has to know where to point the gun because of the wind. Wind at that distance will blow a .22lr 6" easily. Yes, they WILL travel a mile if pointed up in the air..... A .17 HMR starts out much faster than a .22lr, but because of it's lighter weight it also drops faster, and it is a much more frangible round, breaking up easily, vs. a .22lr.
If the shooter knows the gun, has a good rest, and can read the wind, sub 1/2" groups at 100 yds are possible with the .17 HMR. I'd like to see that done with a .22lr! Thanks Scott, I took a look at a couple of those .17 HMR Savage packages and they are right in line with what I was thinking. Question on range thou. You say they drop faster than a 22. So safe to assume they won't go 3/4 mile if fired at a target 2 or 3 feet off the ground? Any thoughts on the 30-30 as far as range and accuracy at 150 yards? Bill D.
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BG sex?
by Theo Gallus - 05/16/24 05:02 PM
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