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Joined: Mar 2015
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I am a newby - just joined yesterday, and am learning the site. I posted an introduction yesterday and am trying to post a picture as part of the introduction and get some initial advice.

As I said on the intro... we bought a property in the fall that we plan to move to later this year which has a small (maybe 0.1 acre ~ 4000 sq ft) pond that is spring feed.







As you can see the pond is a major mess.

I am in SE Michigan near Ann Arbor. The property and pond have not had a real caretaker for about 10-12 years so there is much over growth of invasive garbage trees and shrubs as well as many downed branches and trees. Since the weather has been below zero for a couple of weeks I have taken the opportunity to exercise my chain saw and cut down much of the debris.

One response to my original post asked about the depth - which I don't know yet, but I suspect there is a lot of leaves and other debris in the pond.

What do you recommend as the steps to turn this into a healthy pond? Is it big enough for fish?

I look forward to any and all comments and advice. Thanks.

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I'd start by draining it with a trash pump. Then come in with an excavator and remove the undoubtedly huge amount of organic waste that has accumulated on the bottom. A large back hoe could likely do the work in a pond of that size.

Will a pond that small support fish? Well, as is a common answer on here. That all depends... Which species of fish? Fathead minnows or gamefish? If you want gamefish to survive in a smaller pond in your part of the country, I'd shoot for 8' and preferably 10' or even 12' maximum depth. I'd also have winter aeration. With depth and aeration, I think you'd see gamefish survive even your harshest of winters.

As far as what to stock, I'd look into a put and take fishery consisting of non-reproducing or minimally reproducing species. Utilizing single sex fish would be a good idea here...

What species are you interested in having?

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Little did I know what I was getting into with a pond...

My first interest is to have it look a lot nicer than what the photo shows and not have it be a mosquito breeding zone.

I think I am a long way from worrying about what kind of fish I want :-(

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That is why you need to decide and define to the folks here what your goals are for the pond. Are you looking for a water feature or a place to fish or both?


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JWF

Hello, and welcome to the forum!

I'd fill it in or do as CJBS suggests - drain and aim for 12' depth and potentially enlarge it. Once you start with a clean slate [no muck, remove some trees, enlarge, no more mats of Filamentous algae] ponds can be very easily managed and provide years of enjoyment and satisfaction. You are understandably a little overwhelmed inheriting a pond that is very near the end of it's life. With a little research, capital investment, and support/direction from your Pond Boss family, you could be stocking fish by early Summer and building something limited only by your creativity. Keep us apprised and let us know how we can assist.


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This whole project is one of the transitions in life. I am moving from a much larger country property to this two acres with this small pond.

Although I am still defining what my goals are, after spending some time on Pond Boss the first priority is to get it to be a healthy pond that supports frogs (which were there last summer when we were buying) and to have it be an attractive feature of the property.

I think in the longer term I like the idea of fish (maybe trout, maybe BG & LM) from both the fishing perspective and the food perspective.

Between last weekend and today I have spent about 12 hours cutting downed trees, buck thorn, tree of heaven, honeysuckle etc which are the majority of the large and mature over growth around the pond. Today was a good day with two large fires burning all day to get rid of the crap.

By the time the ice melts, I should at least be able to get to the waters edge.

So what is the first thing to do when the ice melts to start this pond in the right direction? Understand I don't want to drain it and dredge it with a back hoe right off - maybe later but not from the get go.

I can drain the level down about 2-3 feet as there is a overflow dam with a lower gate to lower the level. My thought is to drain it down to that level so I can clean the remaining brush that is around the edge and under the ice right now (of which there is a great plenty).

What else do you guys recommend for early spring to get the healing underway?

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If this were my place, and I didn't like the appearance of the pond, I'd consider steps needed to change it. I would want to clear vegetation/trees to an extent, improve water quality, and engineer it into a pond that would support a fishery. Those would be my own personal priorities.

I would determine reason for pond being covered entirely by mat of filamentous algae in Summer: Excess nutrients likely in part due to organic material filling in the pond bottom after many years or leaf litter from trees surrounding.

In order to remove silt/organic material, I'd need to drain and use excavator. While working heavy equipment, I'd increase depth to 10-12' and consider expanding it's size.

Also, while equipment is on site working on the pond, I'd hopefully realize that same excavator in one hour could save dozens/hundreds of hours of manual labor removing trees/vegetation from pond later. I would ask operator to clear brush to make it more accessible visually and physically - I can fine tune with chainsaw later - but I'd get the heavy lifting done now.

I would determine the watershed and investigate. Is it draining neighborhoods where excess N/P from fertilizer is washing into pond - creating excessively nutrient rich water? If so, build a small sediment pond upstream to help slow down water, and plant rooted vegetation to tie up excess nutrient prior to releasing into the pond. This will slow the eutrophication process of my new pond, and help preserve water quality.

I would next research and determine fish species that interest me, and establish goals for the fishery. This will determine stocking strategy and timeline.

Then I would source those fish and set a schedule. Depending on species and goals, I'd consider buying a feeder and building a feeder platform/mini dock from which I can observe feeding/behavior and provide a place to fish.

Those are my recommendations if it were my place.


Many men go fishing all of their lives without knowing that it is not fish they are after. ~ Henry David Thoreau

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JWF,

You said you have 2 acres of land now? Safe to assume part of that is house and yard? What are you going to do with all the muck and soil you remove from the pond? I suspect this can be a significant expense. IMHO if you have a contractor do the work, make sure that is included in the quote.

Last edited by Bill D.; 03/03/15 11:31 PM.

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This is my comment from the other "twin" thread about this pond.
"It does look like a good pond for amphibians. I suspect that it has frequent fish kills especially during winter due to dissolved oxygen loss. The main thing you should do when the ice melts is to determine how deep it is and how thick the muck layer is on the bottom which is likely 3ft+ thick."

Now for some additional input. Michigan State Univ suggests that better success with sport fish ponds in MI will be with ponds 15t deep or more and 18-20ft is distinctly better. Depth of 10-12 ft they say are for fishery ponds in more southerly states.
From one of their online publications:
""For fish ponds in Michigan you want the depth to be at least 12-15 feet throughout as much of the pond as possible, but at least a quarter of the pond bed. This helps avoid winter and summer oxygen depletion and resultant stress on fish, which can end in poor growth or mass die-off. Having parts of the pond as deep as 25 feet would be even better if possible. Deeper than 25 feet has shown no results as to providing benefits to fish populations. If maintaining fish populations is not your goal then depth is not as much a factor. Wildlife ponds can be shallow relative to fish ponds.""
Managing Michigan Ponds
http://archive.lib.msu.edu/DMC/Ag.%20Ext.%202007-Chelsie/PDF/e1554-1994-print3.pdf
Wisconsin Pond Info.
https://woodlandinfo.org/sites/woodlandinfo.org/files/pdf/UWEX/G3693.pdf

Last edited by Bill Cody; 03/04/15 10:11 AM.

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Bill..

I like the idea of amphibians and know that last summer there were some good sized frog there. I have done some searching on amphibians and started to learn about their habitat and variety. But I don't find anything that talks about stocking frogs or much about different types. I will keep looking but if anybody and some good recommendations on finding amphibian info please pass it on.

I talked to the neighbor the other day and she thought that the pond may be 18 feet deep ... but then she said, maybe it was 8'. I will get out on the ice as it thins and get a measure in the middle to get some idea. I suspect it is 8 and not 18 as it isn't that big and the edges don't look that steep.

I agree with you about the muck on the bottom as the place has been over hung with trees for years. I am clearing a lot of the overhand away. I have lots of house project work and other stuff to do on the property so the pond will only get a small percent of my time at the first stages of this transition but getting it headed in the right direction from the start is my immediate goal.

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Originally Posted By: JWF
I will get out on the ice as it thins and get a measure in the middle to get some idea.


IMHO For safety reasons, I would wait for the ice to go off. If you don't have a boat, just tie a sinker on the end of a fishing line with a slip bobber. Cast to where you want to check depth. Just adjust the location of the knot on the line with each cast until the bobber doesn't stand up. Measure the distance from the weight to the knot and you have the depth measurement.


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A heavy weight on a sounding line will sink easily into the light fluffy unsolidated mucky bottom. If you test the depth that way I would subtract about 6" from the total measurement. You probably have a lot more amphibians in a pond like that than you realize. Many of the amphibians are very early visitors and appear soon after the ice melts. There are likely 3 species of frogs and several species of salamanders that use the pond since I suspect there are no bass in there due to winter and summer kills. The pond to me looks to be about 5 ft deep. Lets see how close I come to being correct.

Last edited by Bill Cody; 03/05/15 07:26 PM.

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Originally Posted By: Bill D.
Originally Posted By: JWF
I will get out on the ice as it thins and get a measure in the middle to get some idea.


IMHO For safety reasons, I would wait for the ice to go off. If you don't have a boat, just tie a sinker on the end of a fishing line with a slip bobber. Cast to where you want to check depth. Just adjust the location of the knot on the line with each cast until the bobber doesn't stand up. Measure the distance from the weight to the knot and you have the depth measurement.


I'd like to second Bill on safety. I went in the water one time while ice fishing on a relatively warm day. Fortunately I had dragged a small boat with me to store supplies so I was able to escape. If not, I might not have survived, even though I am a good swimmer. It's hard to swim thru the ice and hypothermia can kill you pretty quickly.


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Thanks for the safety concerns and I will judge the ice carefully or use the techniques mentioned. If the pod was originally 8' as the neighbor mentioned, and there is 3' of muck, as one of the contributors guessed, then the 5' guess would be very close. Let's see when I can get a measure - next week is supposed to be consistently in the 40s so we should get some melting.

Since finding this site, Pond Boss, last week I have been doing a lot of reading to learn about this new adventure - a pond.

Obvious from the picture, the whole pond had a thick layer of FA on it. What happens to this in the winter? What should I expect when the ice melts? How quickly will it come back?

Should I try to get some circulation going right away to improve the oxygen in the water? Does O2 in water keep FA from growing? What about nutrient levels - how are these measure and controlled?

Boy do I have a lot of questions....

Thanks for your help!

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Most of your questions have probably already been answered in old threads. I have never figured out how to get the search engine on this site to work so I just google the question and end each search with "Pond Boss" as the last two words. Example, "How to control FA Pond Boss." You will be up all night reading! smile

By the way, do not just throw an aerator in a pond full of muck and fire it up unless you are trying to kill all the inhabitants. There are threads explaining how you slowly introduce aeration under your conditions.

Another good resource is Pond Boss Magazine. You can subscribe from this site. There was an excellent article on winter aeration in the Jan/Feb issue with Part 2 promised for later this year. If you decide to subscribe, I think you can back date your subscription to get the Jan/Feb issue if you call the girls in the Pond Boss office.

P.S. My favorite section of PBM is "Ask the Boss" where readers write in with questions. Kind of like Dear Abby but is Dear Bob!

Last edited by Bill D.; 03/05/15 09:04 PM.

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