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Due mostly to lots of time spent on this forum I've taken the plunge and am in the middle of a reset on my little pond.

Around 3/4 of an acre, average depth of 12 feet. Deepest point around 15.

Currently stocked really really badly. The PO stocked Channel Cats and I've been less than successful at getting them all out. Not sure how many are left but it's several, and they're all larger than 5 LB at this point. Apex predator no doubt about it.

Small populations of LMB, BG, GSF. Maybe a couple of BCP.

Overall just not a very viable fishery. No structure to speak of.

I currently have a siphon running, has been for a few days now. I'm going to take it down as low as I can with the siphon, then finish with a pump. Seine out as can be done then let the little bit left freeze hopefully killing anything left.

My plan is to stock YP and FHM this spring, followed by SMB this fall.

That's it.

I'll need to get structure in place while the water is down. Planning to aerate as well...

thoughts?


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Hi Dale

First off, I love your target species. Many of us can help you with the stocking strategy and management of these species. Starting over - good, I encourage it. One of the benefits of small pond management is the option of starting over quickly and cheaply. I did something very similar this fall to a 1/3 AC pond. Draining and seining is a great start, but I hesitate to trust the winterkill alone to clear the remaining fish. I'd recommend hydrated lime treatment this Spring to the existing water in order to ensure you're starting tabula rasa. Spike the PH to 12, watch them float. Net out whatever surfaces and fill it up again.

Think about introducing multiple forage items, like crayfish, a shiner species like SFS, maybe BNM along with the FHM. I'd recommend getting pellet trained fish to help relieve pressure off the forage base.

Will you stock any RES to help hammer snail population? Bonus WE? Single sex BG maybe if no RES? Few HSB?


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TJ I'm definitely going to add some HSB - by far my favorite fish to catch - but I figured I'd wait a year or so to allow the base to get established. Gotta love some WE as well...not sure I can get them from the supplier in small numbers though.

I wouldn't mind RES at all...have them in the big pond. I assume their breeding pattern shouldn't give any grief to the YP?

So if I lime the remainder, given that there will be little water left, it should be safe to assume that by the time I'm full or close to it that my PH should be back to normal I assume? No familiarity with liming hence the question.


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I would echo everything TJ has said, especially regarding species....BNM and SFS would be great forage. Might consider adding some big rock for cover/breeding substrate for the minnows/'dads.

Since you're going to the effort to reboot with these species--don't leave the fish kill to chance--drain it down as far as you can and nuke the remainder with either hydrated lime or rotenone. Just a few LMB left alive could ruin your budding YP/SMB fishery.

And don't even get me started on what happens if any GSF survive.

Last edited by Yolk Sac; 01/30/15 03:25 PM. Reason: OOPS, see that TJ already brought up the liime. Now where the heck is the recipe for Grilled Weaver Finch?
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PH will drop naturally in a week or so, but refilling the pond after treatment will dilute enough you won't have anything to worry about. Test the PH to ensure it's returned to normal levels, just to be safe, but you'll likely be fine.

If you elect to stock RES, I'd consider them this Spring if they're available along with stocking your forage base [FHM, BNM, SFS]. I'd personally wait until Fall to stock YP and SMB and allow forage base some time to get established. You'll have larger fish from which to choose, I'd go with largest you can afford - hand select them if possible. I hesitate to stock YP in Spring as Cody says they could be 2014 runts, males, inferior fish leftovers. I would personally try to get pellet trained fish.

QTY dependent on your goals, but I'd start here:

250 RES
100-150 YP
25-50 SMB

Summer 2016

5-10 HSB annual or biannual ladder stocking max 30 fish

10 WE annual or biannual ladder stock dependent on harvest and goals for these fish

You probably had this already in hand, just some initial thoughts on stocking strategies for you. I hope this is helpful, I'm really excited about your project. Cody will likely be along soon to correct me in a few areas. Stocking qty will change significantly depending on your goals, as you are aware.


Many men go fishing all of their lives without knowing that it is not fish they are after. ~ Henry David Thoreau

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Ditto on nuking it with hydrated lime. Why take the chance??


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3/4 to 1 1/4 ac pond LMB, SMB, PS, BG, RES, CC, YP, Bardello BG, (RBT & Blue Tilapia - seasonal).
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tabula rosa? Dammit TJ, you sent me to wikipeida again.


It's not about the fish. It's about the pond. Take care of the pond and the fish will be fine. PB subscriber since before it was in color.

Without a sense of urgency, Nothing ever gets done.

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DL let us know your fishery goals for this pond, specifically, and we can adjust the stocking parameters accordingly. Pretty general numbers cited above.

Good to hear from you again, you need to check in more often. I'd love to know what's going on with the main fishery...hope all is well!


Many men go fishing all of their lives without knowing that it is not fish they are after. ~ Henry David Thoreau

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Originally Posted By: teehjaeh57
DL let us know your fishery goals for this pond, specifically, and we can adjust the stocking parameters accordingly. Pretty general numbers cited above.

Good to hear from you again, you need to check in more often. I'd love to know what's going on with the main fishery...hope all is well!


Dale - I'm anxiously awaiting an excuse to provide some more unsolicited guidance regarding your fishery...so answer my questions already! grin


Many men go fishing all of their lives without knowing that it is not fish they are after. ~ Henry David Thoreau

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TJ - sorry for the delay in response - inches of ice and snow have somewhat slowed this project down. Although I just this morning traded for a 3" multiquip trash pump powered by an 8HP Honda, so as soon as I have ice-off I can finish draining.

Honestly goals for the pond is just to have something different. I want a reproducing population of both YP and SMB if possible. You can't really catch either species around these parts.

The main BOW is doing great...ended up taking 400+ BCP out in 2014 without a single stunted or even skinny one caught. So far so good. Very healthy populations of LMB and BG. The RES are few and far between as would be expected at this point I suppose.


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Yo Dale - jeesh, bout time man! smile

Nate does a lot of cool water species stocking all over IL, I think YP and SMB will perform well in this fishery - and additional species if you want. If you want to discuss and species selection [forage and predator] and stocking strategies, just holler. YP, SMB, HSB in low qtys, and bonus WE would be possible, depending on your goals of course. Few RES to clean up snails - and I wouldn't be surprised if this became your preferred fishing bow eventually.

Here to help.

PS: Good to hear about your primary fishery going well - please keep us in the loop regarding your BCP management techniques, challenges, and results. This is especially valuable information for the forum body of knowledge.


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I'm hoping to have it drained down, seined out and killed off by mid-march. That would allow a good 30 days at least for rain to refill partially...I can always pump out of the big BOW if I get impatient. Then it's a matter of stocking up the spring forage and letting them do their thing.

I'm going to build some structure sections now and have them staged so I can strategically place them after the draw-down.


Dale

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Update - what a pain in the neck this draining process is, especially in the spring!

Been running the pump on and off, making progress. I was hoping to have it down to seining level by Sunday.

We're going to get something around 2 inches of rain in the next 24 hours.

Gotta love spring in the Midwest.

On a positive note, I found a good source for hydrated lime that doesn't want to charge an arm and a leg for it - no pun intended.


Dale

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post some pictures of what you seine up ........


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No pics yet, we didn't seine this weekend. We did however start pulling smaller fish out, just via dipnets. The smaller fish were getting hung up in the algae along the edges as the water level dropped, so we made a lap around just scooping fish out.

Transferred probably 100 over to the big pond. Nothing larger than 3". Mostly just having fun with the kids. Put a few of the cooler specimens in the aquarium in the house so the kids can watch them.

Species were LMB, BG and GSF (yes I'm in the minority I know, I love those little fighters).

I'm planning to time the draining process so we can seine this Saturday, weather permitting.


Dale

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Update - 2 pumps running now. Looks like Saturday seine party is on. I didn't realize how vertical the banks were, and for how deep. I'm down 6 feet and it's finally starting to decrease in surface area.

Pics to follow.


Dale

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Yeah I was kidding myself...STILL too deep to seine. The banks are darn near vertical for the first 7-8 feet.

Moved the trash pump down the bank 6 feet or a bit better, replumbed using 3 inch PVC the whole distance, and NOW we're moving water.

here's what I was using:



Re-plumbed to this and more than doubled the water movement ratio:








Of course it's going to rain this week so I'll have to do a little recovery pumping...but I'm down far enough now that another 10 hours or so and she'll be ready for seining. I'm going to time it so that we do it on Sunday as that looks like the best day weather-wise.


Dale

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Update - the drawdown and seine portion is complete! Finally managed to get enough water out to seine it without drowning. Went swimming in chest waders twice over the weekend, which was zero fun. That was some coooold water.

Didn't get a ton of pics of the actual fish removal, given that when we finally got it done there wasn't anyone else there and I was a bit busy.

A few surprises:

1 - my pond is deeper than I thought. I've thought for 10 years after an initial depth check that it was in the 15-16 foot range. This is not correct. There was a deep pool on the north side that was closer to 18-19 feet. That's where the fish all ended up.

2 - there weren't as many catfish as I expected. We got 6 big CC's out, weighing between 14 and 18 lbs. Big fat ole cats. My buddy took all of them and released them in a pond he has a BG issue with, to see if they will help out. I wouldn't be surprised if there's a couple more down in the mud that'll pop up when I kill the rest off tonight.

3 - My HSB stocking wasn't a total loss! I stocked 60 3-4 inch HSB's in there 3 years ago. Out of 60 I seined out a grand total of 1 HSB - around 14 inches long. A healthy looking HSB...he must've been the fastest one of the batch.

4 - I'd forgotten how hard it is to seine a pond. I felt like I'd run a marathon with lead weights tied around my ankles when we finished last night.

Probably took out something around 300 fish all told, LMB, BG, GSF, CC, BCP and one lonely HSB. Along with a good crop of bullfrogs and crawdads as well.

Some pics of the pond...



Ended up with a East/West shallow (relatively speaking - it would be at about 12 feet at full pool) ridge running the entire length of the pond. Handy for walking on. The south pool was smaller and shallower, the north pool larger and much deeper.



My boy with one of the 15 or so big BCP we removed. All are scheduled to be released to the grease in the next week or so.



Quite a bit of bottom 'structure' (read 'Garbage') - we spent a good bit of time filling trash bags. I guess given that the bottom hasn't seen the light of day in 22 years or so it wasn't all that bad. Unusual findings included a mailbox with some paper still in it (unrecognizable but guessing it was mail) an old starter off a tractor, and a knick-knack shelf.



The best part of the process was getting the kids involved in 'rescuing' fish...we set out 5 fish traps and probably pulled out 300 or better 2014 year class BG and GSF - maybe 20 or so 2013 year class. The kids had a ball.

The silt isn't as bad as I'd expected....2/3 of the pond has little to none. The bottom of the deep pool and several areas on the East end have some deeper spots. Going to try to get a track-hoe in there in the next couple of days just to get some of it out.


Dale

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Good stuff dlowrance, especially getting the kids involved.

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Some pics of the actual event....taken from the safety of the shore...









A Bald Eagle checking things out...we had a full work stoppage when he showed up. A fairly rare occurrence around our place.



Attempt #1 - this was right about the time I filled the chest waders with slightly-more-than-freezing water.



Surveying my domain...



Just prior to going in too deep...


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Wow, does that ever look familiar! Well done, Dale - I hope my seining days and slogging up those silty slopes are numbered.

So, now what? Are you going to nuke it with hydrated lime? What's the proposed new fishery?


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I remember that too - quite a process. We cleaned out a small (.1A) pond at a previous residence. It had 2 7lb bass and a huge snapper. The one thing I learned was don't wear boots - wear regular sneakers/tennis shoes!


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Dale- That looks like fun and a whole lot of work right there! I bet the kids were in heaven.

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I find it best to seine barefooted and in trunks - no getting stuck in the mud - but water temps have to cooperate.


Many men go fishing all of their lives without knowing that it is not fish they are after. ~ Henry David Thoreau

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Originally Posted By: teehjaeh57
I find it best to seine barefooted and in trunks - no getting stuck in the mud - but water temps have to cooperate.


What about bullheads and large turtles?


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