Pond Boss Forums STOCKING A NEW POND Types of fish to choose can smallmouth bass live in east Texas pond?

I know smallmouth bass are predominantly northern or cold water fish. I know they can live with lmb. What is the main reason they don't do well down south? I don't even think there would be a supplier down south.Just pondering if I had some in my new 2 acre pond and only 12 ft deep. Would they even survive?

Flame you may find these interesting and/or helpful

Smallmouth can thrive in Texas


Looks like Bob Lusk has tried it...maybe he'll chime in

Bill Cody and TJ (teehjaeh57) are smallmouth experts and will see this at some point and give you some solid advice.

What I can tell you is smallies can definitely survive, and thrive, in southern waters. However, if largemouth are already present, they will outcompete any smallies you add to the mix. Many factors for this. Largemouth can simply eat more than smallies due to their larger mouth gape, have a higher fecundity and I would imagine habitat would also play in their favor too, in Texas.

Chris Steelman also has a smaller turbid pond with SMB in it. Maybe he will share how smallies are doing in his TX pond? SMB were raised in a AZ small pond near Phoenix; both have previously been discussed on this forum. Phoenix pond link:
http://www.bassresource.com/fish_biology/lake-pond-fish-habitat.html


The biggest feature is to keep out the LMB. LMB always seem to crowd out the SMB when both are in smaller waters. Maybe some other southern members with smallies will provide some experiences. We need more members willing to try SMB with no LMB present. Largemouth can always be added later if the smallies do not perform to meet ones goals.

I have found that SMB are compatible with HSB. Together these two predators would make a dream pond for any angler.

Flame, I wouldn't waste my time on research or especially trying to raise smallmouth bass in the sand/clay areas of East texas.
I know a LOT about SMB, having caught literally hundreds from lake Texoma up to 7+ lbs.
They are found in Lake Texoma on rocky points, rocky shore lines and gravel beds - I know where they live and they don't live or even could survive in the midlake mud and sandy streams.

But if you like to experiment, I can put you on some good spots to havest some SMB good stock from Texoma...
George

It has been shown in the literature that SMB often inhabit the rocky points and rocky - gravel shorelines and deeper colder water because the LMB push & bully the smallies into these less preferred habitats. Smallies can survive in these rocky less productive conditions where LMB often struggle. My experience and stockings have shown that smallies will survive in sand clay bottom warm water ponds if LMB are not present to bully and suppress the SMB. Members here who stock some smallies as the only bass will soon provide extra testimony on this topic. Flame - Please Give it a try and report your results. Inquiring minds want to know more.

The most active fish in my pond in 80 plus water temps were my smallmouth smacking floating pellets! At the same time the bluegill and understandably the yellow perch were off feed.

Bill, you know that I have high regard and respect for you as a scientists and a highly regarded individual, but once again I believe that “conventional wisdom is not always wise”.

“Chris Steelman also has a smaller turbid pond with SMB in it. Maybe he will share how smallies are doing in his TX pond? SMB”.
Why not wait for a report from Chris before encouraging what may be wasteful of time and resources?
I have been at Chris's pond site and know the grology and soil types in this area - if he had sucess in a positive manner I will help othes find SMB brood stock.
Overton would have SMB if there was a market for them.

Having had a successful geoscience career that was education based and advanced by field operational experience, I approach problem solving much differently than most professionals. This operational experience led to several advanced positions in a Fortune 500 company, one of which was Manager of New Technology that gave my team direction to focus on problems at hand.

What does this have to do with SMB – regional application I guess – I grew up in East Texas.

Cheers,
George

My SMB are still sticking around after 5 years of being stocked. Biggest I've seen is around 15-16". I have another pond that I'd like to move them to so I might drain the pond this spring and see what all is left.

Chris--jog my memory please, what kind of forage is present for your smallies??

Chris - Thanks for the testimony; that's great news to hear the smallies are still surviving in your clay bottom Texas pond. Congratulations young man for pushing the envelope for SMB in the south. Keep us advised about your SMB studies in the Texas climate. Aaron Matos' SMB experience in AZ also helps indicate that it is not so much the heat but primarily the presence of the more aggressive LMB that stifle smallie success in ponds. Smallies will even thrive in shallow water weedy conditions that the LMB prefer if LMB are not pushing them out of that habitat.

Bob Lusk's unsuccessful attempt at producing a SMB pond was IMO due primarily to presence of a few undetected LMB in the test SMB pond (see my post on the next page for the article).

Smallies can live with LMB in ponds, but numerous experiences have shown the smallies need to be periodically supplementally stocked as larger fish for the smallies to be present long term (also see below for links to more about this). I've been studying about and working with SMB in ponds for many years and the patterns for success are gradually emerging.

Originally stocked with Fatheads, Golden Shiners, and Redear.

Redear and Golden Shiners are still present. Haven't seen any Fatheads in a while.

Thanks, Chris.
As has been hypothesized in previous threads, water quality rather than temperature may be an important determinant in SMB survival in the south....and possibly forage as well; many of our southern ponds have various sunfish as the primary forage species. I've spent a lot of time watching the SMB in my pond interact with BG and RES--they're just not a preferred forage for smallies in my opinion, though there are a few individuals that will adapt and grow pretty well on this forage base.

Chris your experiences with SMB in TX should help increase your knowledge base and consulting credibility with your fishery business. I have even seen SMB do well in a pond with mongrel green sunfish that developed from long term spawning success of HBG.

Another thing I'd like to add about temps and smallmouth. A few years ago I hatched smallmouth in one of the hatchery ponds. I had to seine them in 90 degree water due to an algae bloom that was getting out of control. Didn't loose a single one, not then or later. I did use salt at 0.5 percent, which I always do, and the holding tank I used at the pond side until I brought them inside was well aerated.

The problem I did have is, although I did grade them, I didn't grade them enough as they were very cannibalistic and ate a lot of their tank mates.

Good new Chris!
Bring me up to date as to when stocked - how many – what size stocked to reach 15 – 16 inches?

Having fished Lake Texoma for ~100 days a year for 20 years and keeping records for some 15, I NEVER caught a smallie in any of the mud/clay bottomed creeks.
Texoma is much better SMB lake than LMB. but I was targeting Striped Bass as primary sport fish.

Thanks,
George

35 were stocked back in November of 2009 at 4-6".

I mentioned in another thread about a customer of mine who has smallies and LMB together in one BOW, and has had success at growing each to large sizes. This person contacted me last fall concerning locating additional SMB as stockers. What Bill wrote here resonated with me, as this fellow indicated pound, to pound and a half fish, as the size he would need.

I think I found some for spring delivery, but had to make a few calls to locate some that large.

If I do my math correctly Chris, your SMB grew approximately 2 inches per year. Is that a typical rate for SMB? Second question, did the SMB spawn in your pond?

How much time?

Haven't seen a SMB fingerling and I usually throw the cast net several times a year to see what I can catch.

Can smallies and HSB co-exist in a pond pretty well together?

Thanks Chris, my chart calls for a 16 inch SMB to weigh ~2.3 lbs.
Would you call that optimum growth for a 5 year old SMB?
What is your answer to Flame's question?
Interesting subject.

Did you ever dig your well?
George

Yes!

How 'bout in a record heat wave drought ridden East Texas pond?