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Never be afraid to walk away... May not be macho but that is minor to taking a life and what happens after that... It ain't pretty


Pat W

I agree with your thinking Pat. However, this discussion started with folks being challenged on their own property. We men tend to be very protective of our place and our people. I've had my place broken into and robbed. That changed my feelings. The security cams have continued to show strangers in my driveway up to the house in the night. The Sheriff has not solved the issue, having all my evidence. The county has had drug punks kill people in their home in a robbery. That all adds up to me not feeling very flexible if I find intruders. I prefer to avoid conflict and would hope to be able to give them the opportunity to turn around, but only so far I'll go before the 44mag would take over.

DN
I totally agree with you. But.... There are certain circumstances that you want to contemplate before using deadly force. In the case of home intrusions it's a no brainier most of the time. Outside Dif story. Even tho my state says you can stand your ground.. A lot of times, not all, you can get out without killing. Folks need to read up on what happens to ALL that kill someone, even when it's legal. If you have to than so be it.



Pat

I guess my biggest concern with carrying a gun, is it makes it that much easier to use a gun. I certainly believe that there are times when using lethal force is appropriate, and even required. I come across unknown, strange dogs on my property from time to time, and sometimes they growl and get all stiff-legged...but none have ever attacked.

I wouldn't shoot a growling dog any more than I would shoot some mouthy jerk here in my shop. Chances are I may never see that growling dog, nor that guy with the attitude, ever again. If I do, and the situation escalates, then that's another story. I guess I'm just not that territorial. Truth be told, I've killed a dog or two in my time. And I'm pretty sure that, in my case anyway, a better way existed to deal with both of those situations, had I given things a little more time.

Now having a gun around the house? Sure, I get that. I own several, just like I own several kinds of hammers, and shovels. And I consider them to be much the same...tools. I don't carry a gun when I walk our property any more than I would carry a posthole digger. I don't feel like I need either one that close at hand. And to be clear, I have absolutely no beef with those who feel differently. It's just I was raised around guns and hunting, and it was drilled into me over, and over, and over, that you don't point a gun at anything you are not 100% ready to kill, right now. We weren't even allowed to point toy guns at each other, while playing as kids.

I will readily admit however, that practicing with a firearm is a whole lot more fun than practicing with a posthole digger.

Sprkplug

Very good attitude about something so serious, that's one reason that I stopped teaching was the fact you always had a few "cowboys " that thought shoot first . Those folks don't get what they are implying. When I was taking my training to teach the Sargent told us that even in war a human doesn't want to kill another human and would shoot around the enemy. But with that said I wouldn't hesitate to pull the trigger if my family was in danger.


Pat

Pat, I agree, imminent danger is another story entirely. I simply don't want it to become a matter of convenience, when other, non-life threatening situations develop.

With the bad guys knowing you are armed hopefully they will opt for a retreat. In my state you can use a gun as a deterrent in it's self. And not have to use it.

Never once have I felt unsafe on my own property--even when it was in the middle of meth central. Things have cleaned up considerably over the years, thankfully. However, I'm usually packing for a different reason. I market farm and have 60 fruit trees, thousands of assorted berries, and a 5 acre vegetable plot. Of course, there's the pond to protect. Usually, I just scare things off but will shoot to kill if necessary. I love snakes and encourage them on my property with the exception of water snakes. Sometimes their numbers get a little high, and they simply take more fish than I'm comfortable with. The same holds true when I have to protect certain crops or just lose them to predation. For instance, a neighbor and I eliminated 38 'coons in a 100 yd stretch over 2 weeks. That is extreme overpopulation. They are often diseased and cause extensive damage to practically everything. I also protect my bluebirds, tree swallows, and assorted woodpeckers from invasives. I encourage people to enjoy my property as much as I do--as long as they respect both the land and my wishes. Some folks are so overprotective they invite more trouble than they prevent.

Having confronted a trespassing turkey hunter when I was archery hunting several years back was an eye opening experience. I suppose he looked at me holding only my bow and figured he had a shotgun and could run the show. It wasn't long into our conversation and I had a 12 gauge pointed at my head. Unfortunately for him, he didn't realize I had a gun concealed on me and although I really didn't feel like dying over trespassing,I also was much younger and felt more invincible. Shortly after, I was in possession of his shotgun and he was running through the woods in retreat. Not sure how I'd handle a similar situation today... Dying over someone trespassing may not be worth it. Unfortunately there are some serious criminals out there and many mentally unstable people as well.

Ya jes never know!

I wonder if you're a firearm owner, and you don't have a firearm on your person, and it could be something that would help you, how would you feel in that moment and following moments?

For us, it would be most likely a rabid fox. Young children here, youngest of which is 2. No way are 3 of my 4 out running or out smarting a wild animal such as a rabid fox. Oldest boy is old enough he stands a much better chance of fending off and or putting something between himself and the rabid fox. If I've got ground to cover to get to my spawn I can only move so fast, nowhere near as fast as a projectile exiting a barrel of a firearm.

We also carry UDAP, a spray designed as a bear deterrent. Have found this to work on approaching dogs, fox, and even bear. Thus far this has been the only tool used and needed. And this is carried at our home through the neighborhood on walk abouts. Too many odd dogs running free these days.

But having a firearm on your person also provides a tool that if the situation arises, you've got your tool with you ready to go.

I guess that's where the geography comes in. We don't have bears, and while we do have foxes, rabid ones are thankfully quite rare. I understand and agree with the desire to protect one's family, but I wonder if perceived danger is more easily contemplated than actually encountered. At any rate, if one draws a measure of comfort, or even pleasure by carrying a firearm around their property, then more power to them. That's what it's all about, the worry-free enjoyment of that which we work so hard for.

I have only lived in this house since August. I have seen a skunk walking across the yard midday (definitely something wrong with that picture!) Coyotes howl all night and there's a bunch of them. I lived in the city before moving here. I will be applying for a FOID card and bringing some of my guns from the old family farm.

Edit: My thought is to only bring my semi 22 with scope and my old single 410. I have a 30-30 my uncle gave my dad in 56 when I was born but I worry the temptation to use it will be too great with houses only a mile away. A 5 shot short barrel 38 Safety Police might stowaway in the car though!

Bill D, What is a FOID card? I thought long and hard before I asked this because I sound stupid sometimes and I did not want to look that way again but here I am And I would use the 30/30 before the 22 (assuming it is a long rifle). The 30/30 is a short distance bullet compared to the 22LR.
I carry my pistol because of yotes that kill the fawns and deer @ my place. The FNL 5.57 is a very fast, long distance and flat shooting bullet, and gives me the distance I might need. And a couple of years ago I found cougar tracks one of my wildlife food plots and I have a picture (from a game camera) of a doe that looked to have been attacked from what I thought was this cougar. I also carry because I hate the Western Water Moccasin's that live @ my place. They have a very bad attitude so I want to be on equal ground with them.

FOID = Firearm Owners Identification Card. Without delving into the political side of things (which would get this thread deleted or many posts deleted) it's something that the wonderful Republik of Illinois has foisted on their populace. It's needed before you can purchase a firearm or any ammunition. Out of staters don't need it to buy ammo.

Bill, what's an FOID card?

I have a lot of mixed emotions about carrying a weapon or even potentially having to use one.

MEANDERING THOUGHTS:

Let's stay away from getting into politics here. So far, we're doing great on that.

I have no idea how many firearms that I own. I have no memory of them not being around so it's been a way of life for me.

I am a huge believer in individual gun rights. I'm a NRA member and think everyone ought to be. Texas has the Homestead law that says I can legal carry a gun in my car or have one in my home without any kind of license. I have no duty to retreat if/when threatened. I believe that, if/when threatened, seconds count and the Cops are only minutes away.

All that said, at 72, I am too dang old to either run or fight. I believe it is best, whenever possible, to avoid confrontations at all cost. I realize that avoidance isn't always possible but I still don't carry one in my vehicle unless traveling. I agree with Pat about too many "cowboys" carrying them.

There have been several times in my life when I totally lost it, went from 0 to 60 quicker than it takes to type this, and later regretted my actions. I'm glad that I wasn't carrying a gun. I THINK that I've calmed down enough to have good sense but the jury is still out on that.

I have and will continue to eliminate problems on my land when necessary. Yep, I've shot neighbors dogs and will continue. Due to rude neighbors with free running attack dogs I carry a sawed off shotgun when I'm on my property. I really resent having to do that but will use it with neither hesitation nor regret.

Ever been shot at? I have and it's an experience and memory that will stay with you for a lifetime. I still get the shakes thinking about it.

I consider pistols(for some reason I've accumulated a lot of them) to be virtually useless when you really need to use a firearm. That said, I would never carry a knife to a gun fight. BTW, I can't hit anything with a pistol anyway. That means that some danged expensive short guns are closet queens.

A FOID card is a Firearms Owners Identification Card. It is required in communist Illinois to possess or purchase firearms and firearms ammunition. It is issued by the state police and is a government registry of firearm owners. In my opinion it provides zero usefulness except to stop honest people from buying guns and ammunition.

Bill D. I would be careful in carrying a pistol in the car if you do not have a concealed carry permit. Just need to make sure you carry it unloaded and cased.

Thanks Lassig, that makes sense.

The coyotes were raising a ruckus here last night also. Woke me up around 2 am. Like listening to them.

I've thought about it, and I think the biggest danger I face around our property would be bees. I'm constantly cutting, mowing, moving and piling, and I think there's a decent opportunity present to disturb a rogue band of angry yellowjackets. I suppose if I were to receive enough stings the consequences could be dire, and it might actually make more sense in my situation to carry an epi-pen rather than a firearm, but I don't do that either.

Doesn't quite carry the same "oomph" in conversation with the guys either...."yeah, well my epinephrine auto-injector has an ambidextrous safety cap, a fail-safe cocking mechanism, and injects 0.3 mg in one burst".

Yeah, cool factor plummeting.

Like lassig said, be careful about the loaded handgun in a vehicle. For all practical purposes, Illinois does not have reprocity with any state in regards to Concealed Carry, even though they were forced pass a Concealed Carry regulation. One thing that happened when they did that is make it legal for non-illinois residents that have a CC permit to legally have a loaded handgun (not sure about long gun) in their vehicle AS LONG AS THEY ARE IN IT. Once a person exits their vehicle, the gun has to stay in the vehicle, be unloaded and either the gun or ammo in a locked case. The other good thing that came about them being forced to issue CC permits is the wording of the law. If a valid CC holder is found innocent in a justifiable shooting, they cannot be sued in civil court.

Non-residents are not allowed to apply for an Illinois CC permit. I believe the only exception to that is CC holders from Hawaii.

Wow, this thread certainly took a U turn.

2 quick thoughts about pulling out a firearm of any kind while angry.

One, if you're expecting a crackhead to make a carefully thought out decision as he steals your widget, then you're already at a disadvantage. His safety and yours, will not even cross his/her mind, so be careful before you jump into a hole you can't crawl out of.

And two, if that widget is worth the possibility of your wife becoming a widow over its theft, then by all means go for it. Personally, I would have no problem protecting my family with deadly force, and I'm very prepared for that. But, I'm not as inclined to think I would start slinging lead over a inanimate object. The potential upside vs. downside just doesn't balance out.

My wife and I have trouble hitting a 2 liter Coke bottle at 50' with our his n hers 22 Buckmark pistols. Now shooting bees.............. that would be a REAL challenge. There is probably a law against it anyway.

Very right FIH. Just not worth it for "stuff".
One thing I struggle with is the wife's attitude about being in the house alone after the robbery. Nobody was there, nobody hurt, but now she knows they'll bust their way in. If I'm not there, she always has a dog next to her. The dog will do more than she ever could.
Preventative measures has been my focus since the break-in. My driveway is lined with lights, some area, some spots. The new high-output LED powered by solar are great. You can screw one to a tree and mount the solar panel pointed at the sun and it's all on its own. Anyone pulls off the road into the drive, a light comes on. And so on up the way. The cameras aren't preventative of course, they never know they are there. They've been put in for after I guess.
I have pictures of a truck pulling up the drive and once the top light comes on by the house, they immediately back out.
My sheriff has enjoyed my pictures.. but it hasn't seemed to result in action.

Thanks Lassig,

I would never carry a pistol in the car. My sole purpose for bringing any firearms here to the new place would be for varmints. A rabid skunk, coyotes getting way too close to the house, etc. I doubt I will even bring the 38 pistol. Haven't shot it in at least 30 years and IIRC I couldn't hit the broad side of a barn with it anyway!

Your cool factor will rise to the stars IF you carry that epi-pen and you're out and about and someone clearly is struggling after being stung or bitten, and they DON'T hae an epi-pen.

Been there, done that - a child was in the park, got stung twice, never been stung before, difficulty breathing, mom had no epi-pen, and so ours came to the rescue and got that little girl breathing regularly.

An ounce of prevention ...