Pond Boss Forums INTRO Questions & Observations Got the seeds. What now?

I also have no idea why anybody would want/need to trim the roots before transplanting.

I'm with DD1 on this one. We lightly slice the outside edges if a plant is root bound in the pot, but never remove any of the roots.

You don't necessiarly need to remove roots, but slice them like Al said. While the seedling is in the container, the roots will grow out to the container, then follow the edge of the container around, making a ball so to speak. If the tree is transplanted and the roots not sliced or trimmed, they will continue to grow around and not out. Then if any wind comes up, the tree will be uprooted a lot easier.

Once the tree is transplanted into the ground, it's better if you water it in a circle at the outside of the branches vs. watering it at the trunk. Roots will grow and search for water, so getting the soil damp out away from the trunk will also help train the roots to grow wide rather than stay growing under the tree.

It's also better to water the tree slowly, for a longer period of time vs. a lot of water at once. That allows the water to soak into the soil to a greater depth and width, making the tree roots follow the water. When the tree is transplanted into the soil, mulch around the tree, but pull the mulch back from the trunk of the tree - that helps keep the moisture in the ground vs. evaporating into the air.

Google "subsurface fertilizer injection trees".

I agree with Esshup. The purpose of pruning the roots is to prevent circling and kinked roots.

I plant seeds in permeable pots such as peat pots, so the tree will air prune itself. As the roots emerge thru the pot into the air, these tips die off promoting more root growth inside the pot. I then plant the whole pot and never disturb the roots.

FWIW, out of the 90+ trees that we transplanted last month with a tree spade, one tree was tipped over by the wind the next day after transplanting. It was a VERY nice looking White Oak Tree. Very symmetrical crown, close to 20' tall, about 5"-6" DBH. It was transplanted from an area that had a high water table, and the roots didn't grow very much. The roots were maybe 1/10th the size of the crown of the tree, and weren't enough to act as an anchor for the tree.

I think the only reason why it didn't uproot in the area that it was growing was because there were other trees the same size growing in close proximity, helping protect it from the wind. Once it was transplanted, it didn't have that protection and over it went.

The tree spade was a large one, taking a plug that was approximately 5' in diameter, and 5' deep.

I generally just slice up the sides of the container and remove the entire root ball. When I transplant it, I lightly loosen the soil around the hole so the roots can spread. For this I use a fork. I like the idea of watering outside the root ball but had never thought of that.

I've never tried planting a 10 foot tree. I generally plant at about 18 inches. My biggest problem is that the rats with antlers(deer) eat the tops off the tree. I fixed that problem with remesh wire about a foot out from the new tree. I found that chicken wire is useless. The deer have also frustrated my attempts at planting grapes.

My other problem on the seedlings is protecting them from blue jays and other larger birds when they are still in the container. They will do their best to pull them up.

Dave,

I never planted one of the big ones either. Most all of mine were in the 1 to 2 foot size. I planted all mine (around 150 so far) in 5 foot tree tubes. They work great to keep the critters off them and actually seem to make the trees grow faster the first couple of years. The guy I get my tubes from sells thousands of tubes to the vineyards in CA for grapes. I bought some 3 footers for berries I will be planting in the spring. You can see some of my tubes in the attached.

Bill, the flowers are so beautiful that I had trouble finding the tubes. What kind of tubes are they? I mean what kind of material? They look like simple PVC but I'm betting that they aren't.

Where do you get them? Does the guy have a web site?

Dave,

Check out....

https://www.treeprotectionsupply.com/

Bill

Here's a pic of the meadow with the flowers in full bloom

In regards to Essups great description to watering, I would like add a little more. After soaking the ground with a slow watering, let the ground dry out before watering again. This lets the tree get used to dry spells and forces the roots to expand in looking for water. You may not want to go to long between watering when first transplanted, but eventually it needs conditioning.

My experience with trees that have major taproots that go straight down is don't mess with moving. I tried to plant some in containers and then move them, but they always seems to be WAY behind in normal growth when compared to the same thing planted "in place". Perhaps in a pot to just get the seed to "pop", but get it planted in place as soon as the weather permits.

Bill, pretty neat stuff and an innovative company. I understand it better now. The holes in the side allow both air movement and photosynthesis.

The only downside that I can see is insects getting into the tube and not knowing that they are there.

Mine came with little pieces of netting that go over the top of each tube to keep birds from building nests and insects like Japaneese beetles out. Some little bugs still get in there though! I check them every few weeks and if I see any bugs I give a little spray of insecticide.

Dave, these are what I used for the pine seedlings.

tree tubes

They worked great, and were cheap.

Wait until the conference, and I'll bring you a hundred.

F&C:

In moving the last batch of Oaks and Maples, none were seen to have a "taproot" so to speak. Nothing that you'd think was a taproot, like a carrot or any extra large root that went straight down.

Maybe it was because of the higher water table (at anywhere from 4' down and deeper)?

Even some of the Oaks that I've seen uprooted in this area by winds seem to have a taproot.

I agree about letting the soil dry out between waterings, but there's a fine line between letting it dry out enough and too much, especially in an arid climate. I think the majority of trees that Fatih is planting in that climate will need some sort of watering their whole lives.

Maybe after they are in the ground, set them up on a drip irrigation system and have a timer to keep them on a watering schedule?

Don't know... perhaps it is specific to an area and its water table. All species don't have a tap root either, and some absolutely have it (but could those even be curtailed by high water table?--- probably).

I do know that if Fatih wants the fastest growing plant, don't transplant it at all and just baby it where it will stay. But sometimes that just can't happen. As Bill C always says... it depends.





Agreed. Just don't spoil them, especially as they get older. Water early/frequently for fast/good growth, but too much water can be a bad thing too. Condition them to search/spread roots for more water when it does become available. It is a fine line.

Fireishot,

Cool tubes. I don't think I would try pines in the ones I use but I should probably try one just as an experiment. How are your pines doing? How long have they been in the tubes?

Bill

Guys i saved every single letter of this topic. Amazing how much i learnt . Some very complex conversation is going on here. So i dunno what to say over them .

Guys, i am driven crazy by my Elm seeds. 20 days since they sprouted and the tallest of them is shorter than 2 inches. My Bur sprout, which came out only 7 days ago is almost taller than my Elm sprouts.

I don't know what kind of a growth i must be expect from these seeds too. I started keeping records of them, to see how they react to different variables. I got a handful of rabbit manure from a petshop but dunno if it is too early to use them.

And should i make a compost out of this manure or just use it?

I lost couple of my Elm sprouts, because which i guess was damping off disease. They fell down suddenly, without almost any signs. They were very green too. I use Aquarium water to water them and 15 W floruscent bulb to light them up(15 W for every 2 pots). Seems quite ample...

Fatih,

I cannot say for sure if it applies to elm, but many trees will grow very little above ground in the beginning as they are putting their energy into growing and establishing a root system.

Bill D.

I hope that's right Bill. And, in this stage how much should i be watering them, so they will have a healthy root system? It is too hard to manage plants for me, even though i am home most of my time. If you water them too much , they die due to damping off. If you don't water them , they start to go down, again. If i forget the bulb turned on, it dries all the moisture and burns the plant .

Fatih,

When I used to grow plants from seed for my sister's greenhouse, I had 8 fixtures 4 feet long placed side by side. Each fixture had 2 flourescent grow bulbs 4 feet long. They make different light wavelength bulbs depending on what your goals are. Each fixture was hung by chains; making it easy to adjust the distance from the light to the plants. All the lights were on timers. I watered twice a day, morning and evening. I only watered a plant if there was no moisture in the top 1/2 inch of potting media.

Hope that helps.

Bill

Edit: Can you post a picture or two of your pots with something in the picture to provide scale? That would be helpful

Bill i will do that tomorrow. Thanks so much for your attention , again.

Here is the image Bill. Sorry that since the pot is so small it was hard to take a decent photo. Sprout is a little smaller than the drive.





I did sow ( past version of sow? ) a whole lot of Elm seeds today. I feel like very few of the elm sprouts will survive. So i wanna have at least 10 pots of elms.

By the way 10 days since i did sow Deodara seeds. No sign of germination. I digged some of the seeds out to see some sprouts but nope... I gave them 2-3 weeks of stratification too.

Guys, my Elm sprouts all died. I do not know why... My Oak sprouts are incredibly healthy. But Elms don't survive. I don't know what i am doing wrong. 10 hours lighting with 10-12 W floruscent and watering 3 times a day. Sometimes they fall of gradually but mostly it happens suddenly. Damping off?

By the way i can't believe how much Oak sprouts grew. Over 4 inches in 10 days.