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What exactly is this GRES cross? How did it happen?

Do we know what side of the cross brings in the larger gape?

If you cropped out everything except the head/mouth in the last photo where the mouth is closed on that great fish, you would say that the plump upper lip, the upturned mouth has characteristics of a juvenile SMB or even LMB!

I'd be curious to see a photo shop of a similar size SMB lips/jaw next to these. Very interesting morphology on this cross.

Actually studying some online juvenile bass pictures the SMB clearly have an 'underbite' with lower jaw protuding more than these pictures above have. It is the large upper lip and the upturned mouth that is prominet. The juvenile SMB and even LMB have 'thinner lips' or thinner lip profiles.

I was looking through the pictures on this page and found it helpful to see similar sized fish lined up to study their mouth/lip structure. In fact the 'Warmouth' on this link has some of the body morphology features and lip features that the GSF have but minus the vivid yellow coloring of the pictures above. Also doesn't have as large of an 'eartab'

Is there agreement on what a warmouth is or is it different species in different states?

Very awesome fish!!

Fish ID page

It's melted here fairly decent over the past few days and actually smelled like Spring yesterday.

Still have a bit to go tho.

Lots of GSF in those fish (except the last one). Look at the fins vs. RES fins. Did they have phar. teeth (i.e. crushers)?

Did not even think to check for the pharyngeal molars, Eric, but will next time.

GRES is a GSF/RES hybrid. No telling how many backcrosses happened to render these specific fish, but you can see different characteristics in each although I strongly suspect these are some generation of GRES.


Scott you should recognize one of these fish - I strongly suspect we sampled it in the fyke net this Spring! Remember the split caudal fin?

That is what I am wanting to raise in a new pond I'm planning GRES hybrids. Want to use a half dozen female GSF and then put both male and female RES in with them. Have a pond of mixed RES and GRES.

Maybe a few Spotted Bass for predators after the GRES and RES go a couple years and look like they are starting to get too thick. Have to find a source of SPB though.

Really nice fish.

Yes, TJ, I do! I was wondering how many of those you had in your pond!!

If I didn't know better, as in someone just showed me those hybrid photos with no info, I might call HBG and not look back. Help me see what your seeing TJ, can you elaborate on the RES traits?

Nice fish TJ!

Agreed, whatever the pedigree they are tremendous!

Nice hybrids TJ.

Do you find it odd that there is zero green bars behind the mouth under the eye?

The HBG I have always have at least some of the GSF markings behind the mouth.

I guess my questions are, if it is HBG why the lack of the green bars? And if it is GRES, is it normal for them to not have that characteristic?

TJ, do you have any idea of pedigree as far as parental gender? GSFm x RESfm or GSFfm x RESm?

Good question T - I'm no lepomis expert, but the top fish lacks the bright yellow fin coloration I typically see in HBG of yours and Condellos. Also, their washed out, pale sides nudged me towards RES genetics. The fishery from where these were caught consists of RES and GSF - never caught a BG there but we fished hard for sunfish on a few occasions. SNRUB also cites the lack of electric blue stripes behind the eye which I've seen on the HBG I've caught. These details lead me to the GRES ID - but I can say I've never seen anything like these fish anywhere before personally, so I don't have a basis for comparison. They certainly were huge specimens for my fishery, however. Not known for growing big lepomis.

When you catch another one, another thing you can check is the gill rakers. GSF have short thick long ones, and RES have short stubby more widely spaced ones. So there is no way of me guessing what they might be on a GRES, but if they did happen to be short and widely spaced it would also tend to suggest RES parentage.

Edit: I corrected the GSF gill rakers description. I thought they were long and thick, but are short and thick.

note the bottom fish has a somewhat dark 'lateral line' (picture #6) The top fish seem to have a white lateral line.. seen best in pictures 1,3 and 5.

The same thin white 'lateral line' stripe are on these beautiful hybrids seen in this web page about the Herman Bros pond management.

I agree, the bluegill hybrids seem to have some cheek coloration too.

Herman Bros

TJ, I recall seeing a photo of a RES x GSF caught during the warmer months last year, also from your pond. I think this is the fish that esshup was holding. Can you post that pic in this thread for comparison? Just to see the coloration on a warm water specimen?

Fish sampled with Scott in June 2014 I assigned GRES hybird ID due to darker coloration of sides and lack of blue stripes on gill cover.




Fish caught from dock Spring 2014 I assigned BGG or GBG hybrid ID due to fin coloration and blue stripes around eye and gill cover:




Fish from this weekend - I think we have a individual match on the fish with the damaged caudal fin - appears the same fish Scott and I sampled:





About the only thing of which I'm sure is the presence of GSF genetics. I'm still leaning towards GRES on top and bottom fish [1,2,5,6] for reasons stated previously, but I'm no lepomis expert.

One possibility I haven't posed yet is a GBG-BGG/RES hybrid, which is entirely possible in my fishery. Have at it, let me know your thoughts.

Well, I've dug through everything I could find and still never found a definitive match. I agree that there is a lot of GSF showing in those fish, and I like the identification of the fish Scott is holding as a RES X GSF hybrid.

The more recent fish may be the same, just washed out due to colder temps. I think I see some cheek mottling indicative of a RES influence, but other RES markers are scarce....or at least obscured by the GSF contribution.

I also like the sound of the HBG(BG/GSF)x RES idea. Those fish present the appearance of what I THINK that combination might look like...if such a pairing could even provide viable, surviving offspring.

I'll say it again...whatever they are, they are tremendous! I would love to catch those!

Thanks for your feedback, I'm rather baffled myself.

Come out here anytime, you are always welcome.