Pond Boss Forums MANAGING AN EXISTING POND Feeding do I "need" fathead minnows?

Ok, Way beyond my scope of knowledge, but my thought is 15# of FHM is a pretty small amount of money compared to the investment you have in your other fish. So if it were me and I was in doubt................ probably would do it. Only down side is what the FHM cost.

You could skip taking your wife out to a nice dinner and movie next week end and cover that cost. I'm sure she will understand if you explain it to her that is for the benefit of the fish.

With the top line bass predators in the pond, and lack of weed cover, it will be difficult to establish the smaller prey species.

You could either yank out the LMB and as many SMB as soon as possible, then restock the SMB once you know the minnow population was established. If not, you probably can count on the majority of the stocked minnows being fast fish food.

Or stock HSB instead of the SMB. Then if the lepomis and YP seem to be getting out of hand, then stock some SMB, or more HSB. In that small of a pond you might have a hard time keeping the predator/prey balance without a lot of intensive catch and keep. Then ony the actively biting fish are kept, leaving the more closed mouthed ones in the pond........

Thanks for the input Scott.

The pond will be seeing many changes this spring/summer. Size and depth will both be increased. Vegetation will be planted. Additional rock piles will be added and crawfish will be introduced. The current "plan" is to remove any bass 14 inches or larger. I have had mixed inputs from folks here at PBF as to whether the SMB will spawn in my pond so that is one more unknown for me. Right or wrong, I think I need to maintain some form of top line predator. I think you are right that HSB would be a good choice if the SMB get out of control. The hatchery I have been using nearby does not have HSB so I would need to find a source. One concern I have is that neither the SMB or HSB will have the mouth gap to control the BG and PS. Hopefully, if I maintain a population of large YP, they will help with SF control by feeding heavily on the new spawn.

All of this is what makes having a pond fun! Ya never know what's going to happen!

Bill:

It's much easier to yank out the LMB/SMB now before they spawn then after and have to play catch-up. It will be a lot less expensive and take less time to manage than if you wait until you have a problem with too many bass. Then you'll lose 2-4 years fish growth trying to get the pond back in balance.

I think you will have a hard time getting the forage base established with them in the pond.

If I remove all bass early spring, is there a concern that by September I will have a pond filled to capacity with 2 to 4 inch BG and possibly PS and no predators large enough to control them? I am assuming a 6 to 8 inch YP can't eat a SF over 2 inches or so in size and will probably target their own spawn or any minnow species I introduce first anyway.

Edit: Maybe this is what's confusing me. If I called up the IL DNR and had them stock the pond, they would have brought BG, LMB and CC. In that scenario, how do they keep the bass from overpopulating? My pond is kind of the same mix except I have YP thrown in too.

Bill, where do FHM, GSH or BNM fit in the Illinios DNR stocking recommendations?

Thanks Scott,

I really appreciate you working thru this with me!

Yeah, I know. From what I've read the DNR says don't stock FHM. I saw no mention of other minnows at all.

Unfortunately. I started stocking my pond before I found PBF so I made a mistake or two early. The biggest might be not establishing vegetation first. So I'm stuck with leave the bass and have a heck of a time trying to establish some kind of minnow population or try to take the bass out and risk being over run by SF. Catch 22. Do you see a third option? Maybe try to get vegetation established and then try for a minnow of some kind.

I also discussed with TJ the options of 1)Fishing out the SMB and YP, add a few more LMB and just make it a traditional warm fish pond. 2) Raising minnows in a mini pond and putting them in the main pond when I need forage.

I guess I could also just nuke everything and start over but I hate to kill my first fish.

I think that since the pond is small, and HSB are relatively easy to get, even in larger sizes (talk to Rex), I'd remove the LMB and SMB, get the forage base established, then put the predators back in. You'd be suprised at how many fish you can remove with a seine or fyke net in a smaller BOW if the BG get outta hand. I haven't caught a bass in a fyke net, so to remove them, it's angling or electro shock.

You might not catch all the bass, but even at that, it would be much easier to get the forage base established. If the bass are in there, it's almost impossible to get the forage base established after the fact.

I can tell you from experience, even stocking a LOT of minnows won't get them established if you don't have the cover for them to hide in if there are SMB in the pond.

A client has YP and SMB in the pond, with minimal weed cover, there was maybe 10% coverage and no hard cover in the pond besides 3-4 root balls. 1 ac pond, FHM and GSH were stocked at 50% the recommended rate, then let breed for a year. 60 SMB were stocked, and within a year the FHM were gone. Next year 50# of FHM were hand sorted and stocked, and within a year those were gone too. RW of the SMB that are 12"-14" in that pond is as low as mid 70% now. The goal for this year is to remove low RW SMB to hopefully let the forage base build back up, and add more hard cover to the pond.

Say you get the pond renovated by June. It will take the plants at least a year to get established, and the bass will be chowing down on the forage in the meantime. Next year they will be large enough to spawn (if not this year) and the forage base will still not be established, and the YOY forage will take a huge hit.

Don't forget that during the winter up here the plants die back and don't provide a lot of cover for the forage to hide in. Yes, the bass slow down eating, but they still eat all winter long.

In my pond, I have problems with cover. Not enough due to fluctuating water levels. LMB have a field day eating forage in a virtual bathtub. I've put in more than 2500 culled BG from another pond that were 2"-4" long in late October just to try and shore up the BG forage and there were virtually no BG to be seen the next Spring. Granted, I had about 200# of LMB in the pond at that time, but that just goes to show how many BG LMB can eat.

With the availability of larger HSB, SMB, LMB and with your smaller pond, I don't think I'd be too concerned with stunting BG. Those can be removed with a Fyke Net if needed. You'd probably be spending the cost of a fyke net in minnows trying to get the forage base established if the bass in the pond get outta hand.

Thanks Scott,

I appreciate you patience!

I will target the bass and remove as many as possible. Not a total loss. I like bass sandwiches!

Bill