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Re: CNBG or RES? [Re: TGW1] #408497 04/19/15 04:49 PM
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laugh laugh

I can't say as I blame you for that at all. I thought after words I might should have been rid of him because he was eating my frogs.

Then I seen this last night and now frogs are not so high on my preference list either! cry laugh grin

All just part of the natural rhythm I guess. cool smile


Attached Files
012.JPG (81.88 KB, 434 downloads)
Bullfrog with FHM in mouth and tail of fish hanging out.
Last edited by snrub; 04/19/15 04:50 PM.

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Re: CNBG or RES? [Re: FishinRod] #408526 04/19/15 10:05 PM
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Originally Posted By: FishinRod
snrub,

I did plan a sediment settling pond much like yours.

My only design modification was to use a gravel-filled gabion basket for the water interchange between the settling pond and the main pond. I was going to put geo-fabric on the bottom and the "downstream" sidewall, and then fill it with the recommended size of gravel.

This system should allow a slow exchange of water from the settling pond to the main pond, but no exchange of fish or fry if you did want to try to manage the forage pond.

It has the added advantage of doubling as an emergency spillway for that 100-year rain event. If you had 2' of freeboard, and installed the top edge of a 20' long gabion basket 1' above normal pool, then you would have 20 square feet of outflow (equal to a 42" pipe).

If you had it perfectly level, it would go from a gushing waterfall to a trickle fairly quickly as your run-off water crested. Hopefully, there would only be a very short window for adventurous LMB to swim upstream.


As FireIsHot found out with his forage (now grow out) pond, it takes only a short window for LMB to go "upstream" and get where they are not supposed to be.

I took some updated pictures today that shows the elevation (or actually lack thereof) challenge I was facing. It has rained recently and all 4 ponds were right at full pool with maybe a quarter inch of water depth flowing in all the overflows. Ponds are as picture perfect as they are ever going to be as far as all being full at the same time.

I'll post the pictures in order so that a person can best get the lay of the land. In the first picture, the shed on the right that is closest to the center, the tiny pre-sediment pond is just to the right of that shed and behind that pile of dirt (that eventually will be removed). As a person follows through the picture sequence, keep the right hand end of that shed in mind as a reference point (right hand of that shed is to the south, left end is to the north).

I think this series of pictures will show how little elevation difference I had to work with to make the sediment pond. The reference shed is right on the peak of the hill, as is the culverts pictured in the pre-sediment pond picture. Main 3 acre pond is in the foreground, forage pond to the left, sediment pond in front of the reference shed, and pre-sediment pond to the right (south) of the shed.

The very last picture is looking back the opposite direction from the pre-sediment pond (looking down hill towards the main pond).

These pictures show the relationship of the ponds a lot better than some of the earlier ones at varying water levels.


Attached Files
016.JPG (123.7 KB, 422 downloads)
Main pond in foreground, forage pond to the right of the small pump house, sediment pond to the right of that
017.JPG (243.52 KB, 349 downloads)
forage pond in foreground, sediment pond behind it and in front of the shed
021.JPG (135.95 KB, 351 downloads)
sediment pond in foreground, pre-sediment behind.
024.JPG (174.7 KB, 477 downloads)
022.JPG (189.96 KB, 374 downloads)
tiny pre-sediment pond
027.JPG (287.04 KB, 410 downloads)
view looking back the opposite way towards house
Last edited by snrub; 04/19/15 10:15 PM.

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Re: Adding a sediment pond to an existing pond [Re: snrub] #413878 06/03/15 09:37 AM
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This is a picture of one of several RES I have caught recently out of the sediment pond being used as a forage pond for FHM and brood pond for RES. As I catch these larger ones, I transfer them to the main pond to add to the RES population there.

Stocked 175 RES along with 100 CNBG last fall and this is the size the RES are this spring. Also catch and transfer some of the CNBG (my main pond was stocked with northern BG so adding these for diversity - they are called CNBG by Dunns fish farm - what pedigree they actually are I do not know). The CNBG are the size of the RES in the picture and some up to 6". They seemed to have grown a little faster than the RES. Original stocking size last fall 1-2"

Attached Files
001.JPG (182.71 KB, 428 downloads)

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Re: Adding a sediment pond to an existing pond [Re: snrub] #419552 07/26/15 02:35 PM
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A sample RES caught out of the sediment pond within the last week.

I had also caught 4 larger RES out of my main pond and put in this sediment pond last fall. They must have had a late spawn because have been trapping a few 2" RES in minnow traps. Later this fall hope to seine the shallow end and maybe transfer a bunch of CNBG and RES over to the main pond.

Attached Files
IMGA1490.JPG (286.67 KB, 392 downloads)
RES stocked last fall

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tannin [Re: snrub] #419554 07/26/15 02:46 PM
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When I built the sediment pond the main purpose was to filter out sediment before it reached the main pond. A secondary purpose was as a forage/grow out pond.

One thing I had not anticipated was for the sediment pond to catch tannin from the farm field and keep part of it out of the main pond. We had a wheat crop in the adjacent field. It was no-till planted to double crop soybeans. We have had a very wet season. The first planting of beans did not come up because of heavy rains. This rain stood in the field for a while in the ridges made by the planter in the bottom of the terrace. Then another rain came along. The first rain had stood in with the wheat stubble long enough to create a brown tannin stained water. The second rain washed it into the pre-sediment pond and then into the sediment pond. A little reached the main pond but not much. The tiny pre-sediment pond is a very brown stained water and the sediment pond less so but still a very noticeable stain.

We had put some blue and also white tilapia in both the pre-sediment and sediment ponds to grow out. They seem to be doing fine in both ponds along with the other fish. But the water sure is stained looking. I put some crushed limestone which has a significant amount of ag lime in it along one bank to help neutralize some of the acid content, which is shown in the picture.

Attached Files
IMGA1496.JPG (258.69 KB, 406 downloads)
tannin stained water in pre-sediment pond

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Re: tannin [Re: snrub] #419571 07/26/15 08:37 PM
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I also have stained water due to tannins.My pond was just finished in May and our contractor seeded an area approximately 50' wide with wheat,rye,and fescue 31 around the waterline.Our ground is classified as highly erodible be our county ag extension office.I thought the staining may have came from a cedar thicket along one side of the pond but it sounds like the wheat and rye may be a large contributor to the staining.Snrub, how wide of a filter strip or buffer strip do you maintain between your fields and your ponds? I have heard recommendations around here anywhere from 60' to 200' depending on soil type and conditions such as slope and type of vegetation.

Re: tannin [Re: tubguy] #419573 07/26/15 09:35 PM
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I had to build a terrace to bring in water from the farm field to have an adequate watershed for the size pond I was building (3 acres). So essentially for this portion of the watershed that ends up in the pond there was zero buffer. The water from the field terrace goes through a culvert originally directly into the main pond. Now it goes first to a mini pre-sediment pond (maybe 20' x 40' x 6' deep), then into the sediment pond (about 1/10th acre x 8' deep), then overflows from the sediment pond into the main pond.

So previously I had essentially no buffer, now I have two small ponds the water passes through before it gets to the main pond.

Normally tannin is not an issue from the field. Mostly sediment when we have heavy rains after tillage and sometimes nutrients. This just happened to be a situation where we had dead wheat straw at a time of unusual rainfall. We usually are begging for a rain at that time of year so I do not expect tannin to be a regular problem.

Last edited by snrub; 07/26/15 09:43 PM.

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Re: tannin [Re: snrub] #419578 07/26/15 10:13 PM
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Been sampling the recruitment from the sediment pond and my forage pond. Not getting anything other than FHM from the forage pond (also should have RES reproducing), but the sediment pond is going gangbusters with reproduction.

RES and CNBG in the sediment pond. Been moving what I trap over to the main pond. Figure there will be lots I don't catch that will grow up to a bigger size and can seine and move them probably next year.

I think I'm getting about 10% RES and the rest mostly CNBG. Kind of hard for me to tell with the fish so small. But occasionally I get a fish that looks distinctively different and sometimes (on the larger size fish) can see a small orange spot on the margin of the opercular tab. Also get an occasional either GSF or a hybrid with GSF in it. So some how either there was contamination within the fish stocked, of a GSF or three snuck into the pond somehow.

Funny, there are lots of FHM in this pond, but am getting very few in the minnow traps. Mostly the small sunfish. I have found that if I bait the trap and check it 10-15 minutes later I get the most fish. When I let it sit over night, will be a few in there, but they mostly find their way back out. I caught and transferred probably a few hundred fish today with three minnow traps and checking them several times throughout the day.

Minnow traps work good to see how your YOY sunfish are doing.

Edit: the food pictured in the traps is dog food. It is large enough in size it stays in the trap. Fish food drops right through the mesh in the trap, thus the reason I'm using dog food for an attractant.

Attached Files
IMGA1501.JPG (240.07 KB, 359 downloads)
recruits caught in a minnow trap
IMGA1503.JPG (209.75 KB, 428 downloads)
IMGA1506.JPG (227.75 KB, 440 downloads)
individual fish picture
IMGA1510.JPG (240.38 KB, 391 downloads)
another trap full
IMGA1511.JPG (233.41 KB, 385 downloads)
Last edited by snrub; 07/26/15 10:17 PM.

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Re: tannin [Re: snrub] #419593 07/27/15 08:11 AM
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I presently only have FHM and GSH in my pond and they seem to be doing fine in the tannin stained water.My PH was 7.2 in June before reaching full pool.Went swimming with my wife and boys yesterday and fry were everywhere in the water less than 3ft.It kinda felt like we were swimming in a minnow bucket.

Re: tannin [Re: snrub] #419599 07/27/15 11:46 AM
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Try panty hose. The pellets becomes mush.


It's not about the fish. It's about the pond. Take care of the pond and the fish will be fine. PB subscriber since before it was in color.

Without a sense of urgency, Nothing ever gets done.

Boy, if I say "sic em", you'd better look for something to bite. Sam Shelley Rancher and Farmer Muleshoe Texas 1892-1985 RIP
Re: tannin [Re: Dave Davidson1] #419620 07/27/15 04:29 PM
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No panty hose for me Dave. I'm a crew sock kind of guy.

Oh, you were talking about putting the fish food in it................. never mind.


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Re: tannin [Re: snrub] #419635 07/27/15 06:06 PM
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Well, go get your Wife to buy you a pair. Or, if it bothers you, buy them by mail order. One pair lasts about a year of cutting them off and tying the ends.

Or, I found a pair of mesh anklets in my Wifes sock drawer. They are a perfect size and you only have to tie off one end. And, if it bothers you, they fit nicely in your pocket.


It's not about the fish. It's about the pond. Take care of the pond and the fish will be fine. PB subscriber since before it was in color.

Without a sense of urgency, Nothing ever gets done.

Boy, if I say "sic em", you'd better look for something to bite. Sam Shelley Rancher and Farmer Muleshoe Texas 1892-1985 RIP
Re: tannin [Re: Dave Davidson1] #419639 07/27/15 06:28 PM
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Yeah, just be sure your wife knows it is her panty hose in your pocket when she finds it when she washes.

I can see all sorts of problems arising from female undergarments from unknown origins found in my pocket. eek

But hey, if I tell her it is all for the benefit of the fish, she will understand............. yep. laugh


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Re: Adding a sediment pond to an existing pond [Re: snrub] #430255 11/28/15 01:54 PM
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Pulled 19 Tilapia out of this sediment pond night before last. Largest 1# 9 oz. All blues except one smaller white. Most in the pound and a quarter to pound and a half range.

We had bought 300 small (1-2") mixed Tilapia (blue and white)in late spring (when water temps were high enough for them to survive) and put a bunch in this sediment pond (no predators in this pond yet). Noticed them moving very slow near the surface about dark so went out after dark with a light and with a dip net (and a couple with cast net) and harvested a total of 19. Ended up with between 5 and 6 pounds total meat.

The fish had got cold and were about to die. In fact I found one near dead that I tossed so actually a total of 20.

Went out last night but did not find any more. Had lots of rain so the water is a lot more turbid so either they have died or just could not see them. May try again today and tonight. Saw a couple large ones in the main pond but the water in it was warmer so they were still too active for me to capture them. Soon as the light hit them they went down.

Adding these Tilapia was kind of just a lark. I knew they would never get big enough or reproduce soon enough to help with any FA problem in the pond. But I wanted to get some experience and just see what they would do. They sure did grow fast.

Interesting thing, throughout the summer the whites were definitely the most visible. Being white they were much easier to spot feeding on pellets. Then when looking closely there would be the blues also, but much harder to spot. Yet now all we are getting are the blues. So either the whites have already died and sunk to the bottom (seen none floating or on the banks) or they have went deeper or something. According to the place we bought them from the whites are supposed to have similar cold tolerance as the blues.

We have had a bunch of cold rain with the main pond at emergency overflow level and a severe temperature drop yesterday, so if I'm going to get to harvest any more blues or see anything of the whites, it will be soon or never. I had kind of forgot about them when they quit coming up for feed a week or two ago. Will at least get a chance to see what they taste like.


Last edited by snrub; 11/28/15 02:04 PM.

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Re: Adding a sediment pond to an existing pond [Re: snrub] #430270 11/28/15 06:05 PM
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We finished a sediment/forage pond this past week, just in time for this long, soaking rain. Being above and to the side of the main pond, it increased the watershed area by probably 50%. There is a pic in my thread about a minnow pond. I pumped it full before the rain to avoid erosion in the basin as much as possible.

Re: Adding a sediment pond to an existing pond [Re: John Fitzgerald] #430278 11/28/15 09:33 PM
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Good luck with your sediment pond. I'm having a lot of fun with mine raising forage fish till some LMB swim up the overflow and get in there. So far that has not happened, but will eventually.


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Re: Adding a sediment pond to an existing pond [Re: snrub] #430286 11/28/15 11:13 PM
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My forage/sediment pond is small enough I could pump it dry in two to three hours with a 2" gasoline pump. I can easily get rid of any predators that way, then re-fill.

Re: Adding a sediment pond to an existing pond [Re: snrub] #430287 11/28/15 11:13 PM
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Picture of the largest Tilapia and the fillets from it.

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Tilapia 11-2015 small.jpg (123.07 KB, 483 downloads)
Tilapia fillets small.jpg (121.67 KB, 393 downloads)

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Re: Adding a sediment pond to an existing pond [Re: snrub] #430314 11/29/15 05:23 PM
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Originally Posted By: snrub
Picture of the largest Tilapia and the fillets from it.


I see the fork in the background is all ready to go once the fillets are done! Cmm


CMM

Re: Adding a sediment pond to an existing pond [Re: CMM] #430334 11/29/15 10:24 PM
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Had first batch tonight. Wife coated it then baked. Very mild fish. Falls apart easily though. I like it a lot.

Wish I could have figured out how to harvest more of them.


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Re: Adding a sediment pond to an existing pond [Re: snrub] #430347 11/30/15 09:24 AM
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+1 on that! Very nice tilapia! I had a few nice ones a bit smaller that were floating in the chilly water last week. There has to be some good minds on the forum that can teach us how to catch more of these!

I had a thought... tell me if I'm crazy? They seem to know where it is warm as I see them in the shallows on the warm side of the pond trying to bask in the sun when the water is chilly.

If one located a big IPC tote (275 gallons) and set it in the shallows with the top just barely above water. And then devised some type of narrow entrance to get in like a minnow trap has. Then if one put a heat source in the tank to keep the tank water warm would they find their way in? Obviously if the fish can get in, some of the warm water would flow out too but if the majority of the tank kept warmer than the outside pond water would they not stay in the warm water where you can net them out?

You could may have a tunnel with some right angles that they could swim through that would help keep the warm water from flowing out too quickly?

Tilapia filets always are on the menu with me smile

Re: Adding a sediment pond to an existing pond [Re: snrub] #430354 11/30/15 10:09 AM
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I have been looking every day for some floaters or some I might scoop up with a net but my surface water temp has been 60 to 61 but maybe the last day or so it has cooled down some more. The Water Turkeys have been talking to each other about my slow moving Tp. My water turkey numbers have grown from 1 to 5 in the last few days. Dam Birds
frown
Tracy


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Tracy
Re: Adding a sediment pond to an existing pond [Re: canyoncreek] #430376 11/30/15 01:09 PM
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Canyoncreek, you might be on to something with the artificially heated "refuge area".

I nominate you to build one, try it out, and report back to us on how it works. grin

Esshup has talked about how they will go to shallow water that the sun has warmed where he has snagged them.

Where most of the ones I captured are in a 1/10th acre sediment pond, have thought about just going out with the cast net and trying to canvass the bottom (basically trying pot luck). That is the pond where we mostly saw the white tilapia feeding this summer (and that I have retrieved only one of the whites) and the pond is small enough I might just get lucky.

Think I will go out and try that right now! Mostly stopped raining............finally.

Last edited by snrub; 11/30/15 01:10 PM.

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Re: Adding a sediment pond to an existing pond [Re: snrub] #430377 11/30/15 01:14 PM
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Tilapia make great fish tacos!

Re: Adding a sediment pond to an existing pond [Re: snrub] #430481 12/01/15 11:30 AM
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E. Texas Casting Net Report. I went out yesterday to throw a cast net for Tp. I was hoping the Tp were floating in or around the surface. The surface water temp a few days ago was 60 and after receiving a 4" rain with the weather temps in the low 40's, I hoped the water temp in the pond had cooled to the point I would see a few floaters but the surface water temp was at 59 and no floaters were seen. I made a trip around the pond using my floating pier with an attached trolling motor. This is a great platform for throwing a cast net. I caught some small 2 to 3" Tp. Looks like I will have to wait on the water temps to cool some more. And snrub, after seeing your report on the Tp fillet's, I was looking forward to some of those nice fillets you have pictured.

Tracy


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Tracy
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