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#395006 - 12/16/14 10:42 AM Re: New Pond - Year 2 coming up. Advice? [Re: Bill D.]
teehjaeh57 Offline
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Lunker

Registered: 01/22/08
Posts: 7835
Loc: Lincoln, NE
Originally Posted By: Bill D.
I am wondering this. If I stocked some 6 to 8 inch LMB in the spring into the current pond, would I effectively be creating the traditional LMB, SF and CC warm water pond with some bonus fish? Avoiding the stunting of SF and the need to nuke? The new twin cool water pond would be upstream. I could catch what I can catch of the SMB and YP from the current pond and toss them in the new one. This would leave me with the following actions required for spring.

1) Increase depth of current pond per the TJ recommendation
2) Plant vegetation per the Bill Cody recommendation
3) Stock LMB in current pond
4) Build a prototype forage pond/waterfall to the current pond that recirculates water from main pond thru the forage pond and work out the bugs

Thoughts?


Yes, you can stock a few LMB into your current pond and "change" it from a cool water to a warm water species fishery. Your plans to pop another 1/3 acre cell upstream dedicated to cool water species fishery allows you to follow the stocking strategy I outlined yesterday for YP, SMB, WE and whatever forage species you choose. Think combo approach BNM, and Red or Spotfin Shiners. My last choice, but still a solid one, would be GSH. In my experience, GSH will compete directly with YP for pellets, and the YP lose in my ponds, and suffer.

You can utilize forage ponds to raise SFS, BNM, et al and design them as we discussed with gate valve which will release your forage directly into the pond, or into a collection tank for netting and stocking later after sorting. Keep a few dozen adults as brood, refill, start project again. This will be a fun project and will keep the hatchery bills down as you are essentially gardening your forage. This will also serve as great science for the forum. I am an obviously advocate for self sufficiency.
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Many men go fishing all of their lives without knowing that it is not fish they are after. ~ Henry David Thoreau





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#395007 - 12/16/14 10:57 AM Re: New Pond - Year 2 coming up. Advice? [Re: Bill D.]
Bill D. Offline


Registered: 10/19/14
Posts: 5580
Loc: Boone County Illinois
Great and thanks to everybody for their comments. I now have a basis for a working plan for the spring. Look for an update next summer, hopefully, a positive update! laugh
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#395287 - 12/19/14 08:04 PM Re: New Pond - Year 2 coming up. Advice? [Re: esshup]
Bill D. Offline


Registered: 10/19/14
Posts: 5580
Loc: Boone County Illinois
Originally Posted By: esshup
Cages or RAS systems work better I think for pellet training. Higher density of fish = more competition for food. No other food except for pellets like there would be in a pond. Eat pellets or die. Harsh, but your goal is to pellet train the fish, correct?


Thanks for the input Esshup. The small forage or pellet training pond, depending on what I am trying to use the pond for at the current time, will be a "natural" RAS kind of sort of. Water will be drawn from the main pond, routed thru the small little pond and then returned as a waterfall to the main pond. Think that will work for pellet training if the only fish in the little pond are those to be trained?

Edit: For clarity, my thought is multiple small ponds as satelites around the main pond. One to raise my winter forage BNM,FHM or ..., one to preserve my YP new spawn and pellet train them and one to.....




Edited by Bill D. (12/19/14 08:12 PM)
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#395300 - 12/19/14 11:09 PM Re: New Pond - Year 2 coming up. Advice? [Re: Bill D.]
esshup Offline
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Registered: 01/26/09
Posts: 24027
Loc: Grovertown, Indiana
You can try it, but with the available natural forage in a pond, they won't "have to" eat pellets. I don't know if you can keep up the fish density high enough in a small pond AND keep the water quality high enough to be successful in pellet training the fish.
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3/4 to 1 1/4 ac pond LMB, SMB, PS, BG, RES, CC, YP, Bardello BG, (RBT & Blue Tilapia - seasonal).

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#395339 - 12/20/14 02:56 PM Re: New Pond - Year 2 coming up. Advice? [Re: Bill D.]
Bill D. Offline


Registered: 10/19/14
Posts: 5580
Loc: Boone County Illinois
Ahhh...I was thinking forage as small fish. You are saying there will be enough zooplankton, bugs, tadpoles, etc for them to get by on even in a little natural pool. Correct? Training takes a more restricted environment like a tank/RAS?
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#395343 - 12/20/14 05:12 PM Re: New Pond - Year 2 coming up. Advice? [Re: Bill D.]
esshup Offline
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Lunker

Registered: 01/26/09
Posts: 24027
Loc: Grovertown, Indiana
Correct. They can also eat insect larvae that live in the pond bottom.
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3/4 to 1 1/4 ac pond LMB, SMB, PS, BG, RES, CC, YP, Bardello BG, (RBT & Blue Tilapia - seasonal).

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#395357 - 12/20/14 08:39 PM Re: New Pond - Year 2 coming up. Advice? [Re: Bill D.]
Bill D. Offline


Registered: 10/19/14
Posts: 5580
Loc: Boone County Illinois
Thanks Esshup! Got it now.

Another question. One big item planned for next summer is increasing the depth and size of the existing pond. My thought is to do this after spawning is done and when the water table is down. Around late July. Is that the correct time or is there a better choice? There will be some turbidity but not that much. Pretty much everything below 4 feet is river rock, sand and boulders. Might hit clay at 12 feet or so. It will also be some of the warmest water at that time so I worry about DO and stress on the fish even though I will have 2 diffusers going.


Edited by Bill D. (12/20/14 09:04 PM)
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You'll never know what ya can catch unless you wet a line!

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#395361 - 12/20/14 09:08 PM Re: New Pond - Year 2 coming up. Advice? [Re: Bill D.]
esshup Offline
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Lunker

Registered: 01/26/09
Posts: 24027
Loc: Grovertown, Indiana
It's easiest to do when the water is the lowest. Here's what I did with my pond. Drained it down (3" trash pump) until all the fish were in the deep end. Made a dam out of dirt. Dug the shallow end deeper and enlarged it. (had to run the trash pump almost continually due to the groundwater) Broke the dam, all the fish and the water rushed into the now deepest part of the pond, then I cleaned out the part of the pond where the fish were. I also enlarged the pond from roughly 1/3 ac to over an acre.

The water that the fish were staying in during renovations was pretty muddy. I kept an aerator going in there, and put in 40-50 pounds of FHM because they were all going to be crowded into the area for a few months. I think the aeration and the FHM helped them survive without any significant morts. Visibility in the water was less than 6" due to the turbidity. I didn't feed them other than the FHM that I put in. I only lost one 9" BG and 2 smaller ones.
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3/4 to 1 1/4 ac pond LMB, SMB, PS, BG, RES, CC, YP, Bardello BG, (RBT & Blue Tilapia - seasonal).

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#395362 - 12/20/14 09:29 PM Re: New Pond - Year 2 coming up. Advice? [Re: Bill D.]
Bill D. Offline


Registered: 10/19/14
Posts: 5580
Loc: Boone County Illinois
Thank you Sir! I will stick with the plan for July then. Sounds like our ponds are similar in that they are both water table ponds. My expansion plans are not as big as what you did. I am just going from 1/4 to 3/8 or 1/2. I will be telling the pond contractor what the budget is, like I have previously, and he will make it as big as he can with finished shoreline for that amount of money. I really need some 10 to 12 foot water. I am on a giant aquifer so I know from experience I will be back at water table level in 24 hours or so.
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You'll never know what ya can catch unless you wet a line!

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#395370 - 12/20/14 11:46 PM Re: New Pond - Year 2 coming up. Advice? [Re: Bill D.]
esshup Offline
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Lunker

Registered: 01/26/09
Posts: 24027
Loc: Grovertown, Indiana
Make sure you can use the dirt on-site, if not, trucking the dirt off-site will cost a lot. I was fortunate that I could use the majority of dirt that I generated to re-contour the ground around the house/barn and build up a flat shooting lane in the woods.

http://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=150653#Post150653
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3/4 to 1 1/4 ac pond LMB, SMB, PS, BG, RES, CC, YP, Bardello BG, (RBT & Blue Tilapia - seasonal).

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#395375 - 12/21/14 08:35 AM Re: New Pond - Year 2 coming up. Advice? [Re: Bill D.]
Bill D. Offline


Registered: 10/19/14
Posts: 5580
Loc: Boone County Illinois
Yeah. I was discussing that with TJ the other day. Only have 6 acres to work with but should be able to spread it around. Biggest problem is it will be mostly gravel/sand/stone mix.

First efforts in the spring will be getting appropriate vegetation going in the areas of the current pond not to be expanded/deepened and building the first mini-pond so I can get FHM and BNM stocked.


Edited by Bill D. (12/21/14 09:25 PM)
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You'll never know what ya can catch unless you wet a line!

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#395398 - 12/21/14 09:59 PM Re: New Pond - Year 2 coming up. Advice? [Re: Bill D.]
Bill D. Offline


Registered: 10/19/14
Posts: 5580
Loc: Boone County Illinois
I need some advice on the size of the mini-ponds. I am thinking around 1000 sq feet + or -. They will need pond liners. What is the most economical shape and size? How deep to be able to sustain minnows over the winter with a small diffuser? There will only be a 100 or so brood stock left in for the winter. I think I probably have enough excess capacity (4.5 cfm 35 psi) with my current compressor to handle the future expanded 1/4 to 3/8 pond and some minis?


Edited by Bill D. (12/21/14 10:24 PM)
_________________________

You'll never know what ya can catch unless you wet a line!

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#395716 - 12/26/14 09:16 PM Re: New Pond - Year 2 coming up. Advice? [Re: Bill D.]
Bill D. Offline


Registered: 10/19/14
Posts: 5580
Loc: Boone County Illinois
Anybody know a good pond builder in N. Illinois? The liners, waterfalls, expansion, etc. have me really nervous. I would like to have a real pro do the work.

If there is a PBF member that is a pro and can help me out, please send me a PM. I am near Rockford.

Thanks!



Edited by Bill D. (12/26/14 09:48 PM)
_________________________

You'll never know what ya can catch unless you wet a line!

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#395726 - 12/27/14 01:54 AM Re: New Pond - Year 2 coming up. Advice? [Re: Bill D.]
teehjaeh57 Offline
Chairman, Pond Boss Legacy award; Moderator; field correspondent
Lunker

Registered: 01/22/08
Posts: 7835
Loc: Lincoln, NE
Get with Scott Schillig, per our conversation. He's Esshup on Forum.
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Many men go fishing all of their lives without knowing that it is not fish they are after. ~ Henry David Thoreau





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#395735 - 12/27/14 10:11 AM Re: New Pond - Year 2 coming up. Advice? [Re: Bill D.]
Bill D. Offline


Registered: 10/19/14
Posts: 5580
Loc: Boone County Illinois
Thanks TJ. I sent Scott a PM.
_________________________

You'll never know what ya can catch unless you wet a line!

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#395740 - 12/27/14 11:07 AM Re: New Pond - Year 2 coming up. Advice? [Re: Bill D.]
esshup Offline
Moderator
Ambassador
Field Correspondent

Lunker

Registered: 01/26/09
Posts: 24027
Loc: Grovertown, Indiana
PM'd back atcha. wink
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3/4 to 1 1/4 ac pond LMB, SMB, PS, BG, RES, CC, YP, Bardello BG, (RBT & Blue Tilapia - seasonal).

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#395790 - 12/27/14 10:17 PM Re: New Pond - Year 2 coming up. Advice? [Re: Bill D.]
Bill D. Offline


Registered: 10/19/14
Posts: 5580
Loc: Boone County Illinois
Thanks for the inputs Esshup. Between yours and TJ's consul, I have a pretty good idea on how to proceed. The one key thing I still lack is a pond contractor to move the dirt.

Anybody know a good pond builder in N. Illinois?
_________________________

You'll never know what ya can catch unless you wet a line!

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#395823 - 12/28/14 09:28 AM Re: New Pond - Year 2 coming up. Advice? [Re: Bill D.]
Bill D. Offline


Registered: 10/19/14
Posts: 5580
Loc: Boone County Illinois
I forgot to mention, and not sure it matters, but when I drilled the well I had them oversize it to support the pond project as well as the house. So far I have been able to maintain whatever level I choose. I can raise the level 3 to 4 inches in 24 hours with the well. In the summer it takes about a week for it to drop back that same 3 or 4 inches. I have maintained the same level now since August. Winter seems easier and I seldom run the well directly for the pond. I have a geothermal "pump and dump" heat pump in the house so it is putting in 6 to 10 gpm in the pond about 75% of the time each day. The well can supply 35 gpm to the well when I need it and still have plenty of capacity for the rest of our needs.
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